Hagure Idol Jigokuhen - Vol. 6 Ch. 38 - Be Free

[Myorn]

@SuperOniichan
I still think you read too much into characters and their development. The ambiguity is purely intended towards the reader. At some point the wife contacted Misora to be her honey trap, but it is not clear when or if they have been much in contact with another. In a 'normal, healthy' relationship you would definitely inform your partner for consent to flirt and meet up with that dude, but Misora does so just at the very last moment, i.e. the end of the chapter. IMO this does not really reflect on her character, because it is just a matter of pacing, as it makes for a better punchline.

On that note, most of the manga's structure makes me think of (early) South Park episodes: It is build both on shock value/controversial content and satire. Character are overdrawn and sometimes completely insane, but, guess what, that's not completely off from the real world. They are just in a situation where you don't really expect them to be and act according to a certain punchline (e.g. Cartman sometimes a antisemitic evil mastermind, sometimes a bratty spoiled child; Misora sometimes a strong, caring, self-driven martial artist, sometimes a horny, easily manipulated airhead). Also, some chapters contain clear messages, and some just portray some weird shit and let you make up your own mind.

I don't agree with the messages of many South Park episodes (and BOY, I don't agree with a lot of Hagure Idol's messages), but I would never really blame the creators to handle a character or their development wrong, as they are just tools to tell a story. Finally, I would never put too much trust, weight or emotions in any media developed by a single person or a small team of people.

 

[kwendy]

So much chaos, I am entertained. All those girls are nuts to some degree, but then again what is normal.

 

[SuperOniichan]

@justjorge Lol, I've seen her as a lewd version of shonen MC for a long time, but "slutty Goku" definitely does a good job of simplifying things. But what about Baki? Although, as far as I remember, Baki didn't care about anything except fighting at all. Yeah, I feel the same. The anticipation of Misora ​​turning into an antihero makes this somewhat obvious (if it actually happens), but at the same time quite intriguing.

@Myorn Well, maybe I'll be very biased if I say that in general I agree a lot with Parker and Stone as center-left, but they were always honest in their message and always tried to attack both points of view on the problem as much as possible, in fact making fun of the whole situation around the problem, and not teaching how to solve it. For example, in an episode about racism against whites, they mocking both white nationalists who were trying to look like victims, and the absurdity of the fact that in the modern world, whites were actually able to come close to such a status.

Again, I absolutely agree that this is most likely grotesque and similar playful absurdity. Moreover, even in Japan itself Rui-sensei has a reputation for creating weird stories with unexpectedly weird developments, so this is not something that can be questioned. But as I said in previous threads, premise and especially the first 3-4 volumes made a lot of wrong decisions that made this manga look much more serious than it was, at least to me. Plus, I’m too attached to Misora ​​to ignore the dark ambiguity of much that happens to her.

@ARRR As for what Misora ​​is looking for, while as I said before, this manga lacks any lesbian romantic stuff on Misora's side, what I have seen suggests that she either being inexperienced fell in love with the combination of friendship and good sex, or really confuses it with love, as this even were very subtle hinted in the 10th volume. I have no reason not to use Occam's Razor, so until some fillers change that, it really looks like pure "sex = love".

 

[Alice_is_lost]

Each chapter makes me love this manga more and more, thank you so much for the chapter 💖💞💕💕♥️♥️💖💕💖💞💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖

 

[Myorn]

@SuperOniichan

At the cost of going off topic, some of Matt and Trey's messages are either 'lost in time' and no longer up to date at all (e.g. a lot of their stuff involving Mr Garrison and his gay/lesbian/trans escapades) and some of their stuff does not really translate well in my native language, or any non-US country for that matter. In many recent seasons, especially the PC and the Tegridy farm centric ones, I was more confused and thought to myself: 'That's going on over there? Ok, weird whatever'.

Compared to that, Rui's stuff about the adult and idol industry and their long established, yet very rarely portrayed issues seems much more interesting. Especially in light of how 'simping' is so similar to 'idolising' among teens and young men, yet the former is rather new in western hemisphere and the latter has been established and existed with deep corporate roots in Japan for years. On that note, Hagure idol is much more unreal and dystopian (and ecchi, lol), which also makes me completely unattached to the characters, because I am reminded again and again that they are not real, even though the struggles they have might be.

 

[aloysiusks]

well at least somebody got sex

 

[SuperOniichan]

@Myorn Well, the episodes about the controversy about transsexuality in sports or their sarcasm about the green trend in business were pretty well-aimed. Especially blatant statement that people's obsession with ideology makes it difficult to discuss issues on the merits and only makes them even more profound. Pretty bold when you compare that to the beloved issues of the left in more conservative times. But as you said yourself, this is off topic, so if you want we can discuss it in PM.

I can partially agree, but I can also say that judging by the reaction of both the Western and especially the native Japanese audience, this is perceived more as funny / problematic entertainment with a full set of fetish and weird shit than any message. I will not deny that satire does not have to be serious and deep to be a good satire, but in this case I think that such a grotesque only goes to the detriment of the message. If it was, of course. For example, you can think of KonoSuba author's Kemono Michi, which was meant to be a parody of Monster girl trend and over-powered isekai MC. But due to the anime's overuse of bestiality jokes, it was taken by many people as weird furry pandering. We can also think of the infamous Peter Grill, who was meant to be a parody of ecchi harems, but ended up memetically known as a pseudo-subtle drama about rape victim.

Do I have to talk about how many people don't understand that Destruction Flag Otome is a satire on otome isekai into game, not bisexual romance? So, in other words, it's not just the message that matters, it's also how you deliver it. And if in the case of Bakarina and Kemono this was mainly a problem of the audience, then in the case of Hagure it was more a matter of the author's initial frivolous attitude to the plot.

 

[ARRR]

@SuperOniichan

"I'm not even going to say that Rui has never given even the slightest hint that Misora ​​has an ATTRACTION for women"
We've seen Misora's bashful side so many times, blushing at the sight of sex, it doesn't mean she has to lust at all of them. Some people are bisexual for a handful of people, and from what the manga has shown us - Akira is very good at making her feel aroused both by touch and by teasing.
Akira isn't a wholesome, nice girl - she is doing all she can to achieve what she desires. That's why I think Misora didn't have to be shown as having a bisexual side before - many girls never realize they are bisexual. Misora probably wouldn't sleep with any other girl, as it's thanks to Akira's plots, skills, and planning they've ended where they are. This is why it's probably going to end tragically, as this is not a relationship made on good fundaments, and despite Akira's brains, Misora will probably leave.
I don't think it's impossible to write it as wholesome, with their relationship maturing and changing,

As you've said I don't think their relationship was ever intended to be shown as wholesome. It's a similar thing to shades of gray, or any of these morally ambiguous "romance" stories, that are very popular because they are morally ambiguous.
morally it's questionable, personally i like it.

 

[umidk]

one of the rare times where this manga doesn't make me question reality. congrats

 

[SuperOniichan]

@ARRR She always blushes in the context of something lewd, this has nothing to do with romance and is rather part of the pure sex I mentioned. And when you refer to Akira's various sexual activities as evidence of romance, you only confirm that point of view. I really like to compare such moments with Kuzu no Houkai, where, despite the general problematic nature of the story, the issues of sexuality and the difference between sex and love are very well shown. For example, Hanabi has no problem getting sexual pleasure from her best friend while she can't get reciprocity from her male interest, but she never harbors any romantic attachment to Sanae, which she understands very well. In turn, the author repeatedly shows that Sanae is romantically or sexually attracted to other women in all sorts of situations, up to random things like "I noticed her breasts, they are so big" and so on. Ultimately, how Araburu and Kuzu did a good job of deconstructing the sex / love stereotype was one of the reasons why I was so painful to find this in Hagure.

I don't talk about this problem very often for one reason only. Literally all relationships in this manga are shown as pure sex, even straight. So, as long as Rui positions it this way, I have no reason to attach much importance to any doubts I have. Out of context, I would think that you are justifying Akira by the fact that she helped find her bisexuality through constant harassment, manipulation and even rape. Anyway, I don't know how you personally look at it, but for me personally, it is too much like the old homophobic trope, where the character "became" gay or bisexual after homosexual seduction. And the manga's tendency to portray queer women as horny weirdo only makes it worse.

Well, if you've followed the discussion of the previous chapters, you might have noticed that the "prophecy" of a tragic ending has been around for a long time, but I don't think that would be the traditionally bittersweet ending for a badly ending romance. Rui always loved to set things on fire at the end and get the characters to kill each other in the most possible brutal way, but those works were quickly finished due to lack of interest, so I think if this relationship got a bad end, it would be something of a transformation. Misora ​​in the second Sarah.

As a dude with Yosuga on userpic, it's not me to reproach you for your love of problematic romance. But for me personally, there are boundaries, after which such a relationship includes my SJW mode.

 

[Kuroww]

I'm disappointed in the dude. Sure, he married early, but he has a perfect wife.

 

[SuperOniichan]

@Kuroww Obviously he is one of those men who cannot keep their dick in their pants for a long time. But then the question arises, why did he get married at all? Sarah made lust a religion, but I'm sure the word marriage isn't even in her lexicon, lol.

 

[Raknasuu]

Normally, I'll try to join the conversation. But today it seems I'm LATE. ^{now, the actual comment even if I don't have much to say}


At this point, I'm just wondering what's the next sexual fantasy Beruko will accomplish.

I admit I laughed when the guy went from a really nervous "Huh?" to a really loud "With pleasure!" when offered the threesome. The drummer joke cracked me up even more.

Now, I'm sure that if I get to meet a person I admire and said person asks me to have a threesome with their wife in exchange I'll have the same response. Even if mmf aren't my thing.

 

[SuperOniichan]

@Raknasuu Next time she will be choosing a position for others, but I already hinted too much at this scene earlier in the thread, so I will be silent lol.

 

[lokithus]

fucking outplayed

 

[CSmith327]

Yay ntr route avoided, take that you piece of shit! I hope she beats the shit out of you when you get home. I haven't read this manga yet except for random chapters to see how it's like, but based on what I've seen I really like it. I'm going to wait till vol 10 is translated before I start. I don't think this should have such a low rating. The art and character design is pretty good, and there's action and plenty of sexy yuri scenes. It's also pretty funny. I guess the main reason people rate it so low is cuz of the yuri smut. They should just look at the tags instead of automatically giving it a bad rating. I probably wouldn't like this as much without the yuri, but I'd still read it. It's still good enough without yuri. Me being such a yurifag I gotta check out everything with the tags shoujo ai and yuri, but I'm fine with hetero stuff too

 

[SuperOniichan]

@CSmith327 Huh, look at the ratings and read the comments on any straight smut manga and you'll be surprised how much yuri adds positive feedback to any title. Even you yourself write that you would not like it if it doesn't have yuri, although above you write that the controversial acceptance is not justified, lol.

 

[CSmith327]

@SuperOniichan I'm bi myself and I like any sort of romance elements in manga. Yuri would add to my enjoyment of it, but it doesn't have to be there for me to like it. I'm just always looking for different kinds of yuri since I'm getting a little tired of girls school yuri. Anyways I've read plenty of comments on series with just little hints of yuri and people blow up the comment section complaining about yuribait and arguing with the other users they call yurifags. Though I guess that's probably because there was no yuri tag and they didn't expect it. Well the reason this is rated so low is probably cuz of the relationships being based more on sex and manipulation instead of being wholesome. As a whole I don't know if I would enjoy it, but I'll give it try. I hope it doesn't have a shitty ending tho like you said. Too many manga these days are good but have an ending that ruins the whole experience

 

[SuperOniichan]

@CSmith327 I don’t know what titles you read, but in modern fandom yuri and BL works like hypnosis and people are able to justify anything, anytime, if it can give something GAY. So much so that Ganbare, Douki-chan literally swept in yuri hype after just a few chapters of yuri bait humor. "Wholesome" is especially fun to hear in the context of Hagure, with even both sides of the discussion below calling the manga's relationships and messages problematic, especially the recent excuse for blackmailing NTR just because it was lesbian or having fun with subplot about love between a girl with a loli body and a guy with an anal pedophile fetish. Most smut titles have a variety of different issues (Qwaser, for example, has a creepy obsession with tits and milk), but this is clearly not because they are more lewd and manipulative than this manga, lol. I don't even know how toxic a story has to be to be more problematic than Hagure.

 

[Yotomoe]

I honestly really wanted to see Yuka-chan kick his ass. I'm not sure if I'm alone in this but I'm really into the "sexy violence" aspect of this series. I was kinda looking forward to a cute thicker housewife just...roughing him up a little. Women a pretty hot when they're also a bit scary.