Harukaze no Étranger - Vol. 4 Ch. 17
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This whole series is so heart warming that it hurts.
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Yup. That's it. Word is a key in relationship. Thing will be simpler and easier when communicating. Now, warm up your love, boys. I'm waiting
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@Thrembs I get this can be seen as perhaps 'problematic' with one of the mc iterating 'he's not gay' but 'couldn't get it up with women' but within the context of the story, I do not think it is badly written.
Mio is the kind of guy that when awol for 3 years after confessing to Shun, despite him having the ability to call the house. This isn't really a criticism of him, but a remark on the fact it took him 3 years to think through and come to terms with what he thought he was.
Mio isn't a bright guy. He's a bit aloof and has quite a narrow world view. He didn't have a phone, even when he came back to Shun after 3 years (when a key promise was that he'd call the guy), he doesn't know how to text and obviously isn't well versed in technology. As such it's not a far stretch to say that when it comes to his sexuality, despite having come to terms with it and knowing what he himself wants that he would not have a firm or caring grasp of the vocabulary or terms involved.
I can bet that considering his personality, his only thought as far as affirming he liked Shun and that was it. The thought process being 'I only like Shun despite him being a guy so I am probably not gay'. What's to say that him not getting into it when doing it with women wasn't simply due to him not being romantically attracted to them? He obviously cared about Shun, despite still mulling over what that meant, so who's to say he couldn't get into it because he liked Shun instead?
Him causally using 'okama' is simply due to the fact that during his 3 year back on the mainland he asked advice from such people with regards to his interest in Shun. As such he's ingrained the vocabulary.
I don't see how this is a problem in the story or how this is the author trying to have it both ways.
Mio is the kind of guy that when awol for 3 years after confessing to Shun, despite him having the ability to call the house. This isn't really a criticism of him, but a remark on the fact it took him 3 years to think through and come to terms with what he thought he was.
Mio isn't a bright guy. He's a bit aloof and has quite a narrow world view. He didn't have a phone, even when he came back to Shun after 3 years (when a key promise was that he'd call the guy), he doesn't know how to text and obviously isn't well versed in technology. As such it's not a far stretch to say that when it comes to his sexuality, despite having come to terms with it and knowing what he himself wants that he would not have a firm or caring grasp of the vocabulary or terms involved.
I can bet that considering his personality, his only thought as far as affirming he liked Shun and that was it. The thought process being 'I only like Shun despite him being a guy so I am probably not gay'. What's to say that him not getting into it when doing it with women wasn't simply due to him not being romantically attracted to them? He obviously cared about Shun, despite still mulling over what that meant, so who's to say he couldn't get into it because he liked Shun instead?
Him causally using 'okama' is simply due to the fact that during his 3 year back on the mainland he asked advice from such people with regards to his interest in Shun. As such he's ingrained the vocabulary.
I don't see how this is a problem in the story or how this is the author trying to have it both ways.
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@minecraftjennys
My point is "I'm straight, but" a terribly problematic trope on BL. I'm not down with this New Criticism BS where everyone is supposed to ignore the context of a work. It's same old same old BL. The author is just recycling with that.
And "okama" is a slur. Onee don't self-apply it in real life.
Again, context, and ignorance.
My point is "I'm straight, but" a terribly problematic trope on BL. I'm not down with this New Criticism BS where everyone is supposed to ignore the context of a work. It's same old same old BL. The author is just recycling with that.
And "okama" is a slur. Onee don't self-apply it in real life.
Again, context, and ignorance.
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@Thrembs
Ok, but even if it's problematic how is this the author "trying to have it both ways"? Is it the whole "he's not really gay he likes shun so its still BL" that's getting to you? If you got a bone to pick with Mio's characterization why not Shun? Shun's the guy whose internally homophobic with the whole 'In ruining a normal guy' schtick. My point is, neither of these characters reflects the LGBTQ ideal of someone comfortable with themselves and the terminology. That in itself could be a valid critique, and as you say could be the author recycling tropes and its cliche / old fashioned.
I think the crux of the issues with this series is the fact that the author never really 'focuses' on things per se. Their writing and story structure is almost aloof with the fluid passage of time and skipped in-between scenes. For example, what does Mio get up to in those 3 years off the island? We don't get any flashback other than a flashback to when he met Onee and in-text allusions (e.g. he tried to sleep with girls). A result of this is that I feel the story really misses out on being able to flesh out its characters. Mio despite being one of the main characters is quite obscure and as such his reasonings and use of words can be quite cryptic.
He has the whole "he's straight but" line and you point to the whole "he can't get it up with women" and conclude this is a point of criticism but I think this is disingenuous. The line of thinking of "he can't get it up with women, therefore, the line about him being straight is contradictory and the author is trying to have it both ways" is simply a faulty argument.
If we're going to talk about context, then in-text is as important as that of the context of the work relative to the real world. The whole 'I couldn't get it up with women' line is brought up when Shun and Mio are essentially discussing they're sexual preferences. Mio couldn't get it up with women likely due to emotional hang-ups (feeling pressured, maybe he just didn't like them enough for sexual attraction) while Shun could get it up despite him being gay (regardless of if he really was into it).
If you're going to criticize the whole shun not being presented as gay despite not getting it up with women, then you have to also bring up shun being able to get it up with women despite being gay.
The whole point of the conversation is pointing to the fact that different people have different sexual abilities/preferences regardless of their sexuality.
It's the author with their equivalent of a neon sign and most pointed dialogue, explaining, in text, different characters have different levels of sexual attraction, regardless of sexuality. A justification and an explanation within the story's context to the reader as to why Mio 'not getting it up with women' but not identifying as 'gay' is not inherently a contradiction. Shun can get it up but doesn't feel attraction, Mio can't but does.
That's it. If you've read this far, you have my respect and apologizes for being so long-winded.
Ok, but even if it's problematic how is this the author "trying to have it both ways"? Is it the whole "he's not really gay he likes shun so its still BL" that's getting to you? If you got a bone to pick with Mio's characterization why not Shun? Shun's the guy whose internally homophobic with the whole 'In ruining a normal guy' schtick. My point is, neither of these characters reflects the LGBTQ ideal of someone comfortable with themselves and the terminology. That in itself could be a valid critique, and as you say could be the author recycling tropes and its cliche / old fashioned.
I think the crux of the issues with this series is the fact that the author never really 'focuses' on things per se. Their writing and story structure is almost aloof with the fluid passage of time and skipped in-between scenes. For example, what does Mio get up to in those 3 years off the island? We don't get any flashback other than a flashback to when he met Onee and in-text allusions (e.g. he tried to sleep with girls). A result of this is that I feel the story really misses out on being able to flesh out its characters. Mio despite being one of the main characters is quite obscure and as such his reasonings and use of words can be quite cryptic.
He has the whole "he's straight but" line and you point to the whole "he can't get it up with women" and conclude this is a point of criticism but I think this is disingenuous. The line of thinking of "he can't get it up with women, therefore, the line about him being straight is contradictory and the author is trying to have it both ways" is simply a faulty argument.
If we're going to talk about context, then in-text is as important as that of the context of the work relative to the real world. The whole 'I couldn't get it up with women' line is brought up when Shun and Mio are essentially discussing they're sexual preferences. Mio couldn't get it up with women likely due to emotional hang-ups (feeling pressured, maybe he just didn't like them enough for sexual attraction) while Shun could get it up despite him being gay (regardless of if he really was into it).
If you're going to criticize the whole shun not being presented as gay despite not getting it up with women, then you have to also bring up shun being able to get it up with women despite being gay.
The whole point of the conversation is pointing to the fact that different people have different sexual abilities/preferences regardless of their sexuality.
It's the author with their equivalent of a neon sign and most pointed dialogue, explaining, in text, different characters have different levels of sexual attraction, regardless of sexuality. A justification and an explanation within the story's context to the reader as to why Mio 'not getting it up with women' but not identifying as 'gay' is not inherently a contradiction. Shun can get it up but doesn't feel attraction, Mio can't but does.
That's it. If you've read this far, you have my respect and apologizes for being so long-winded.
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@minecraftjennys
Again, I ain’t with this New Criticism BS.
Bad tropes are bad. Slurs, regardless of who is saying them, are slurs. “It’s ok that the author has him saying he’s not a f****t”.
“Within the context of the story” That’s not what I’m talking about. It’s old hat within the genre. “No homo but I love my boyfriend” is common in BL and always fucking ridiculous.
Again, I ain’t with this New Criticism BS.
Bad tropes are bad. Slurs, regardless of who is saying them, are slurs. “It’s ok that the author has him saying he’s not a f****t”.
“Within the context of the story” That’s not what I’m talking about. It’s old hat within the genre. “No homo but I love my boyfriend” is common in BL and always fucking ridiculous.
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maybe Mio is demi sexual but has a preference for women; shun just happened to be his biggest love, not that his sexuality matters that much anyway this far into the story....why are we sstill arguing over that??
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Thank you so much for the chapter!
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@elefantine97 exactlyy thank you for pointing that out. just appreciate the beautiful story the mangaka is giving us -_-
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