Hatsukoi Zombie - Vol. 17 Ch. 160 - Nothing But Your Desire...

[FredFriendly]

@Zephyrus @Holo Since you are now giving contrary advice as to what I was given before, perhaps the best thing would be to publish a list of words for which you personally take offense since you are the sole moderator. I really don't wanna tip-toe around the comment section worrying that Zephyrus might not like this word or Zephyrus might not like that word, especially since I was previously told that I was free to call fictional characters whatever I want, and now I'm told I gotta use "common sense." If I could read your mind and know what falls under your definition of common sense or what you consider offensive, all would be good, but I am just a mere human and do not have any super powers.

To summarize, I can no longer refer to a fictional character using any sexual slur such as "slut" without fear of being reprimanded, although it was previously okay'd, and even if the character is specifically being portrayed as a slut, or even if the character is called a slut in the title of the series, because of your personal preference. Got it. But I do wonder if even using long-hand versions of such terms would be impermissable, such as: "he/she certainly likes to have many casual sexual partners." Polite language yes, but the meaning's the same.

 

[MolaCola]

@FredFriendly appreciate your work my dude
i have faith that Tarou will be a better person worthy of Ebino b/c Ebino deserves some loving and the author clearly has no plans to introduce a love rival for Tarou
love rival being another alternative for Ebino
welp the Eve fans are getting what they wanted
Possessed Eve being oddly promiscuous, did she think that'd work?
i say that b/c this one seems to be more cold and calculating

 

[raven_freak]

@Zephyrus your rules are pretty straight forward here

Harassing someone solely on the basis of gender is not acceptable on MangaDex. This extends to profile biographies, user names, and avatars.

which ABSOLUTELY says nothing about calling a character a slut, bitch, tranny, etc etc so ya'll should get together as a mod team and either extend this to characters or restore the comment.

OT: I remember someone kinda spoiling this a few chapters ago and I'm still wondering if he's gonna end up with Eve by some weird ass miracle in the next 6 chapters, or somehow end up with Ebino cause she's a safe choice.

 

[banas002]

This guy is going insane

 

[Mangalover9147]

@CoolOtamegane
Swap the first two and I wholeheartedly agree.
Fuck-off Ibusuki.

 

[bastek66]

Guys, Ebino isn't winning and Ibusuki isn't fucking off. It's time to deal with it.

 

[ABCsOfLife]

I just realize.. Eve just show Ibusuki girl body to Tarou...

What the heck eve?? I thought you didn't want to acknowledge that???

 

[Dipuc4Life]

It's time little brother ... step up and be the man Ebino needs. It may take a couple of years but keep growing and eventually you will have a sexy waifu. For everybody asking for Ebino happiness please note little brother-kun waiting in the wings to love her lots. LOL.

People also forget that Eve was sucked into a vortex of thot zombies and molested by her alter ego. It doesn't excuse her behavior but ego-thot wants the D so cut her some slack. I mean she's been in the yuri-cyclone for how long now. LOL.

Also, I think Tarou has some brain damage after getting clocked in the head several times in this manga. His brain may already be mush ... although it wouldn't have taken long for it to progress this far had he not been hit.

Also also, yeah Ibsuki lied at the beginning of this manga which has lead us down this torrid path. Had she not done that the author could have finished this manga in what ... two chapters. Nah a chapter and a half. But is that any reason to hate a badly written fictional character?

 

[Zephyrus]

@FredFriendly
Firstly, the moderation rules were agreed upon by all staff members and are equally enforced by all staff members. Insinuating that I rule the forums and comment section like it's my own personal fiefdom is pretty irritating, to be honest.

However, I can understand why some rules seem contradictory. I personally believe that there is no reason to use vulgar language like "slut" or "whore" in any situation on MD, including when criticizing fictional characters. But my personal feelings do not enter the equation. Holo ultimately ruled that you can insult characters since they have no feelings to hurt, so I do not moderate those kinds of comments. Sadly, some posters feel this gives them license to utilize the apparent loophole in 5.1 and use sexual slurs like "faggot", wish rape upon characters, or use racial slurs. This is never acceptable under any circumstance on MD and so I moderate those comments if they are reported.

 

[FredFriendly]

@Zephyrus I seem to remember that, in one comment or forum thread (or perhaps even a PM), you stated that you were the sole moderator of comments. Frankly, without a search function, I'm not going to try to pinpoint the specific thread and I don't have the time to slog through who knows how much data. Nonetheless, believing that you are the sole moderator of comments, it's not much of a stretch to think that what you say goes. If I am under a misimpression, then I apologize.

I think the big problem is the wording of section 5.1. When reading it, the wording gives the impression that these rules specifically apply to making comments about other users. It would probably help if help if the section stated specifically that these rules apply to users and characters, alike.

Okay, now to beat that dead horse one last time... It's okay to use a sexual slur like "slut" or "whore" when describing a character but not okay to use a sexual slur like "faggot" when describing a character. Not that I would do so, but this, too, seems contrary. As offensive words go, including real-life situations, I find "slut" a far more offensive word than "faggot," but that's just my own personal take on it.

That's it. I've reached my limit for this conversation. Thank you for all your replies. And my apologies for derailing the thread.

 

[elfalas]

Mods moderating comments that clearly didn't go against the rules, oh great..

"..personal feelings do not enter the equation." "..utilize the apparent loophole in..", so that's the new way of trying to excuse enforcing personal opinions, calling it "loopholes" whenever it's something the rules clearly allowed and team confirmed was okay in the past.
Reading through it all together just gives one clear message really, being:
'I believe you shouldn't say slurs even against fictional characters. While Holo ruled that you can insult characters since they have no feelings, I'll call it a loophole and moderate slurs against characters anyways.'

I'm not one for slurs like that so the rules never affected me personally either way, but the recent actions I've seen on this site is definitely ruining whatever respect there was for modding actions actually being tied to rule violations rather than enforcing personal opinions in a haphazard way.
Furthered by the fact that even after several people asking/demanding clarifications on what's deemed okay or not, no clarifications have been made.


If they're going to continue, they should atleast try save some face by rewriting the rules to actually match and back up the moderating actions they take.

Edit: Aye Zeph said he was the sole mod several times, you might've seen it in one of those posts responding to one of those volunteers for mod positions he declined.
(Mainly stating such things as him alone seems enough so far and the like, granted it could be taken as him being the only one dedicated to it and there being others that can on the side in the team.)
As for moderating actions, I've seen atleast one other name pop up as the one that took moderating actions against a post, so he's not alone doing it unless he's handling multiple accounts for some reason.

 

[Yautja]

@SJP
Almost like you don't know what sarcasm or hyperbole is, genius. Time to go back to 8th grade English.

 

[Yautja]

@raven_freak @elfalas @FredFriendly
To you guys just now finding out about this mod issue or weren't aware of the extend of it, this is old news, go visit https://mangadex.org/thread/57810. Shit blew up there and made this problem extremely clear.

 

[Zephyrus]

I am no longer the sole moderator. I interviewed and, with staff approval, hired @Daviot to assist me in moderating the forum and comments.

Once again, I will make this painfully clear and add it to the rules if I must:

You may never, under any circumstance, use racial slurs, sexual slurs, or religious slurs even in the course of criticizing a character. Using the word slut is quite different from using, say, the word faggot. You cannot post that rape is something that someone is deserving of. I will mark the post as moderated and take further moderator action if I deem it appropriate.

You may call characters dumb, bimbos, sluts, whores, crazy, homicidal, stupid, retarded, boring, one-dimensional, deserving of death. You can say that characters should be shot, poisoned, stabbed, buried alive, eaten by sharks, subjected to torture, and the like.

Some people don't like moderation at all and that's fine. But when you post on MD, you make yourself subject to our rules.

 

[unk0damnation]

When the comment thread is more entertaining than the manga... it tells something, but I can't really put it into words.

 

[FredFriendly]

@Yautja Even with Zephyrus most recent post, one issue is not entirely clear to me, though I appreciate the gist of the "painfully clear" clarifications. What I am still stuck on is why "the word slut is quite different from using, say, the word faggot" when, from my perspective, they are both sexual slurs and sexual slurs are explicity banned. I can understand banning racial and religious slurs, and I can even understand banning sexual slurs (though I might disagree with that when used towards fictional characters), and I have personally objected to other posters stating that so-and-so deserves to be raped, but singling out the word "faggot" from other allowed sexual slurs just seems like a personal bias. I donno. Maybe my brain is just not functioning today. Reading some of that threadyou posted (who has time to read it all?) didn't help, either.

 

[Nolonar]

I wanted to add my opinion to the mix, but it appears that the rules have changed, so none of the points I was going to write down would've been appropriate anymore.

With that said, I recommend everyone review the new rules before continuing this discussion. Specifically:

5.1.2 Sexism: One gender is not inherently superior to another. Harassing someone solely on the basis of gender is not acceptable on MangaDex. This extends to profile biographies, user names, and avatars.

5.1.4 Other Terminology: This category includes everything else that does not neatly fit under the above categories. It includes, but is not limited to, rape jokes, homophobia, transphobia, and direct personal attacks.

So from what I can see, the use of "faggot" being unacceptable falls under the new 5.1.4 (homophobia).
While the use of "slut" or "whore" appears acceptable, as it doesn't fall under 5.1.2 (harassment based solely on gender), and as long as it's not used for direct personal attacks, won't fall under 5.1.4 either.
And since people can't *directly* attack fictional characters anyway, it's totally alright to call them "slut" or "whore".

At least that's how I interpret the new rules, and does in no way reflect my own opinion on what's acceptable or not.

 

[Yautja]

@FredFriendly
It wasn't meant to help, it was meant to illustrate how inconsistent Zeph has been and still seems to be in both logic and semantics. My personal opinion is I don't care what words are used, I care about how they're used, what the context is and what is discernible about the intent. My biggest problem is "their rules" are poorly defined and inconsistently enforced as shown in that thread. Specifically 5.3.1; arguably he'd be within his "rights" to ban you by that rule, as illustrated in that thread.

 

[Diabl0]

hmmm

 

[Diabl0]

Mangaka is streeeeetttttcccccchhhhiiiiinnnnngggggg the length still, like honestly, FUCK OFF WITH 4 MORE BOOKS END. IT. good or bad. END IT!!!!!!!!!!