Horimiya - Vol. 13 Ch. 92 - Bath
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2018
- Messages
- 550
@Mainimi Wot? Was I reading the same story as you? Miyamura was a social wreck at the start of the story. He was a friendless loser who was scared of his piercings and tattoos being discovered. Hori was being weighed down by her housekeeping obligations and couldn't develop any meaningful relationships with the people around her. Miyamura and Hori finding out each other's secrets creates a maypole for both of them to begin improving on their flaws. If that's not some good internal conflict, then I don't know what is.
Side characters also served as good subjects of character conflict at various points in the story. For instance, Souta had an episode where he was terrified of his sister being taken away by Miyamura. The reconciliation between Miyamura and that bully also tugged at every heartstring in my body. There were some minor conflicts between some couples in the story as well. Granted, most of those were pretty shit, so whatever.
The reason why I say this should have ended earlier is that that's the only way to conclusively find closure for the story. Imagine if Koe no Katachi didn't end at the door/festival (depending on if you're talking about the manga or movie). Sure, I can imagine that some arbitrary point in the story just ends it all. But there's no cathartic swelling in my chest that comes from knowing that I've seen everything that the author wanted to show me.
Side characters also served as good subjects of character conflict at various points in the story. For instance, Souta had an episode where he was terrified of his sister being taken away by Miyamura. The reconciliation between Miyamura and that bully also tugged at every heartstring in my body. There were some minor conflicts between some couples in the story as well. Granted, most of those were pretty shit, so whatever.
The reason why I say this should have ended earlier is that that's the only way to conclusively find closure for the story. Imagine if Koe no Katachi didn't end at the door/festival (depending on if you're talking about the manga or movie). Sure, I can imagine that some arbitrary point in the story just ends it all. But there's no cathartic swelling in my chest that comes from knowing that I've seen everything that the author wanted to show me.
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2018
- Messages
- 146
I love the continuation. I don't care if the chapters just revolved around their friends.
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2018
- Messages
- 928
I love Iura he’s hilarious
Member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2018
- Messages
- 86
@Aretheus characters having personal issues and growing as people to get over them is just part of the slice of life setting. Actually I shouldn't have used the word conflict, as I do remember some like the bully (in fact I mentioned it as well in the main discussion topic), but I don't consider their personal growth part of an internal conflict, nor I ever found ambiguity in their characters. For me it was pretty straightforward, specially since the whole "hiding their real selves" was never a big deal, and was mostly played out for comedy and as a story hook of how unique their relationship started.
What I mean to say really is that there was never much story to go through in the first place. It's just a slice of life going through their high school period, with all that entails. The only closure you can get from the ending is them graduating, since it's the natural end for it, and the author did that in the web version with a timeskip to their graduation and then them as adults, only to afterwards continue releasing omake material with them in highschool (along with stories about their kid and Hori's brother when he's in highschool himself). In fact this point in the story is pretty close to where the original ended iirc (with a lot of omake material adapted in between), and unless the manga adaptation makes something original to add more conflict, you won't find the catharsis you seem to expect (though I think you can perfectly have closure and a satisfying ending without playing out the drama, since this is a pretty comfy series after all).
Maybe we have different expectations, I don't know, for me this is still perfectly fine, as I also enjoy the side characters and their relationships.
What I mean to say really is that there was never much story to go through in the first place. It's just a slice of life going through their high school period, with all that entails. The only closure you can get from the ending is them graduating, since it's the natural end for it, and the author did that in the web version with a timeskip to their graduation and then them as adults, only to afterwards continue releasing omake material with them in highschool (along with stories about their kid and Hori's brother when he's in highschool himself). In fact this point in the story is pretty close to where the original ended iirc (with a lot of omake material adapted in between), and unless the manga adaptation makes something original to add more conflict, you won't find the catharsis you seem to expect (though I think you can perfectly have closure and a satisfying ending without playing out the drama, since this is a pretty comfy series after all).
Maybe we have different expectations, I don't know, for me this is still perfectly fine, as I also enjoy the side characters and their relationships.
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2018
- Messages
- 550
@Mainimi Idk, I feel like the beginning of Horimiya documents the moment that these characters found what they wanted most out of life. The lengths that the writer went through to show how much of a loose end both of them are by themselves was what sold the whole thing to me. I don't feel that magic in their relationship anymore.
Btw, the reason why I brought up Koe no Katachi is because of my experience watching that movie. I went to see it with one of my non-weeb friends in theatres. When we left, he was completely enamored with the story and asked me what the odds are that a sequel could be made. I told him, "Basically zero." And he instantly went on fan fiction to try and find more Koe no Katachi content anywhere he could get it.
I just don't understand that mindset because there was nothing left for the story to convey to the audience. That's where you put a hard stop and leave the viewer to imagine how it will go from there since it doesn't matter how it goes from there.
Btw, the reason why I brought up Koe no Katachi is because of my experience watching that movie. I went to see it with one of my non-weeb friends in theatres. When we left, he was completely enamored with the story and asked me what the odds are that a sequel could be made. I told him, "Basically zero." And he instantly went on fan fiction to try and find more Koe no Katachi content anywhere he could get it.
I just don't understand that mindset because there was nothing left for the story to convey to the audience. That's where you put a hard stop and leave the viewer to imagine how it will go from there since it doesn't matter how it goes from there.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2018
- Messages
- 1,316
@Aretheus This series already end. These chapters adapted the spin-off of the webmanga. Those conflicts you said had been resolved. Personally, I like these chapters better. No need for drama, just relaxing slice-of-life. Don't understand why people are complaining. I tend to drop manga with too much drama so this manga has been fine with me.
Just treat this as spin-off because it really is.
Just treat this as spin-off because it really is.
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2018
- Messages
- 298
I'm glad we're getting more Iura. No idea why, but the guy's really neat
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 1,225
@Weabooribs haven't they become a couple in, like, chapter 10, and everything else is slice of life or something?
anyway who's Sawada and where did she appear, so that I can check those chapters again?
anyway who's Sawada and where did she appear, so that I can check those chapters again?
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2018
- Messages
- 205
@lightingcloud Sawada appears first in Chapter 29 when she's stalking miyamura
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 1,225
Member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2018
- Messages
- 86
@Aretheus I think you're probably used to how a lot of romance manga end right after the relationship starts. Well the truth is that there is a life after that ending, and Horimiya deals with the relationship itself more than how it formed. There is enough character growth in the story as there are relaxed, comfy moments and comedy. I really don't see where the magic was lost in their relationship, they have a pretty healthy one, as one would expect.
I think you're missing the point a little of what Horimiya is about by talking about it like it's continuing past where it should've ended. In this case there isn't gonna be some kind of cathartic moment that you could make into a grand ending like in the Koe no Katachi (which was much less slice of life than it was an actual drama, and of course only the movie had that ending, since the manga was longer), since the "story" here (if you can call it that) isn't about anything in particular, it's just the cast growing up, with the center of the cast obviously being Hori and Miyamura and their relationship. Really the best way to end this would be actually developing the side characters and finishing their character arcs and THEN skip to the graduation (which I wouldn't be surprised if it's what the manga is doing). The original version (from what I remember, my Japanese is super basic so I checked it out with a dictionary) had a lot of this side character development as omake (post ending) material, so the ending time skip left a bit to be desired. But then again it was so casual that it really fit the mood, somehow.
I think you're missing the point a little of what Horimiya is about by talking about it like it's continuing past where it should've ended. In this case there isn't gonna be some kind of cathartic moment that you could make into a grand ending like in the Koe no Katachi (which was much less slice of life than it was an actual drama, and of course only the movie had that ending, since the manga was longer), since the "story" here (if you can call it that) isn't about anything in particular, it's just the cast growing up, with the center of the cast obviously being Hori and Miyamura and their relationship. Really the best way to end this would be actually developing the side characters and finishing their character arcs and THEN skip to the graduation (which I wouldn't be surprised if it's what the manga is doing). The original version (from what I remember, my Japanese is super basic so I checked it out with a dictionary) had a lot of this side character development as omake (post ending) material, so the ending time skip left a bit to be desired. But then again it was so casual that it really fit the mood, somehow.
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2018
- Messages
- 550
@Mainimi My point is that at the start of the story, both of them were wrecks on their own. Together, they patched up each other's holes and were better for it. If they were to break up back then, I could see them both falling apart. Now that both of them have grown as people, they could probably survive without each other just fine.
That by itself isn't a bad thing. It marks the point that you should probably pull the curtain on the story. Like I said, I'm fine with the pure slice-of-life fluff. If it was in a spin-off series, I would probably read it.
The Barakamon anime is my favorite slice-of-life show I've ever seen. K-on isn't far behind either. Both of these shows came out, did what they needed to do, and had beautiful endings that showed how far the characters went to get to where they are.
Btw, considering that "For Imperfect People" just recently ended its story at a concise 11 chapters, I don't buy for one second that I'm missing the point. Both of these manga had pretty much the same framework with different executions. But in the long run, "For Imperfect People" is the story I'll remember because it only showed us as much as was needed to get the point across.
To me, a good story is like a good postman. Get here, deliver your message, and leave. If the postman stays and stares at me through my living room window while I'm reading my letter, then I'm going to get very uncomfortable.
That by itself isn't a bad thing. It marks the point that you should probably pull the curtain on the story. Like I said, I'm fine with the pure slice-of-life fluff. If it was in a spin-off series, I would probably read it.
The Barakamon anime is my favorite slice-of-life show I've ever seen. K-on isn't far behind either. Both of these shows came out, did what they needed to do, and had beautiful endings that showed how far the characters went to get to where they are.
Btw, considering that "For Imperfect People" just recently ended its story at a concise 11 chapters, I don't buy for one second that I'm missing the point. Both of these manga had pretty much the same framework with different executions. But in the long run, "For Imperfect People" is the story I'll remember because it only showed us as much as was needed to get the point across.
To me, a good story is like a good postman. Get here, deliver your message, and leave. If the postman stays and stares at me through my living room window while I'm reading my letter, then I'm going to get very uncomfortable.
Group Leader
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2018
- Messages
- 327
Sawada is tbh my other favourite character next to of course the two mains, and I wish she appeared more in this. I want to see more of her sibling-like relationship with Miyamura, and maybe expanding a little bit on her growth after finding in him someone who fills the role her actual older brother would have filled at this point.
Also to throw my own personal opinion into whether this story should have ended long ago or if it's fine as is, I'm honestly fine with it as-is. Actually, I'm enjoying the fact that this manga goes beyond the initial forming of the relationship, where other romance manga tend to end. It's nice to see the way their relationship actually plays out and develops, and this story is trying to reach themes beyond just the romantic relationship between the main couple, as much of what's been going on revolves around becoming more well-rounded people and how the changes in the main characters in turn affects those characters' relationships with other people in a positive way, and vice-versa. Sawada is one such example of someone of this exact theme - the main couple's relationship hasn't only spurred on their growth but that growth is then passed on to others close to them, including Sawada, like a domino effect. Healthy relationships create positive growth and it doesn't just affect the people in said relationship but everyone close to them.
Also to throw my own personal opinion into whether this story should have ended long ago or if it's fine as is, I'm honestly fine with it as-is. Actually, I'm enjoying the fact that this manga goes beyond the initial forming of the relationship, where other romance manga tend to end. It's nice to see the way their relationship actually plays out and develops, and this story is trying to reach themes beyond just the romantic relationship between the main couple, as much of what's been going on revolves around becoming more well-rounded people and how the changes in the main characters in turn affects those characters' relationships with other people in a positive way, and vice-versa. Sawada is one such example of someone of this exact theme - the main couple's relationship hasn't only spurred on their growth but that growth is then passed on to others close to them, including Sawada, like a domino effect. Healthy relationships create positive growth and it doesn't just affect the people in said relationship but everyone close to them.
Member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2018
- Messages
- 86
@Aretheus When I say you're missing the point, I mean that you're missing the point of what the manga is about. The point of the story is not just them getting together and becoming better people for it, but also to show the comfy slice of life and and problems a bunch of kids face in their last highschool year.
Basically you want it to end because you thought the story was about something (Miyamura and Hori fixing their personal issues), but it was about something else all along (of which Miyamura and Hori getting togher is the central part of, but not the only part), and that's what I meant by you missing the point. And with that being the case, it can't really end yet, as it can't really end before the graduation (which is the natural end for such a story). The web version already showed this with a timeskip, and the omake came afterwards filling up the gaps (and now we get some of the omake chapters as part of the manga proper).
That's why I think this is alright and it doesn't need to be a spinoff. I mean sure, it can't go on indefinitely, but I think focusing on the side characters before closing the story is important, as they've been an integral part of the story since the start, with their own issues that need to be solved for a satisfying conclusion, or simply a few comfy chapters to get to know them better too (Iura in particular has always been the least developed part of the cast, so I wish we got a little more about him).
Basically you want it to end because you thought the story was about something (Miyamura and Hori fixing their personal issues), but it was about something else all along (of which Miyamura and Hori getting togher is the central part of, but not the only part), and that's what I meant by you missing the point. And with that being the case, it can't really end yet, as it can't really end before the graduation (which is the natural end for such a story). The web version already showed this with a timeskip, and the omake came afterwards filling up the gaps (and now we get some of the omake chapters as part of the manga proper).
That's why I think this is alright and it doesn't need to be a spinoff. I mean sure, it can't go on indefinitely, but I think focusing on the side characters before closing the story is important, as they've been an integral part of the story since the start, with their own issues that need to be solved for a satisfying conclusion, or simply a few comfy chapters to get to know them better too (Iura in particular has always been the least developed part of the cast, so I wish we got a little more about him).
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2018
- Messages
- 550
@Hexxy That would be perfectly fine if Hori and Miyamura were actually still developing at all. If this was a Clannad After Story, I'd be fine with this stuff being tied to the main series.
But this is no After Story. Hori and Miyamura are completely stagnant characters at this point. Like I said before, they dont feel like they're stronger because of each other anymore. Both of them are stable enough that the other could vanish, and they wouldn't be worse for wear.
@mainimi Okay, I've been trying to ignore this for a while, but why the hell do you keep bringing up the web novel like it's some smoking gun?
YOU yourself are admitting that these are god damned omake chapters and that the web novel's core series never included any of this nonsense. This mangaka is clearly just trying to milk the series for all that it's worth.
And like I just said to Hexxy, it would be fine if this continuation of the story had absolutely any main character development whatsoever. But no, two of the most subtly dynamic and interesting couples in manga have been devolved into this flawless dream couple with no nuance.
I can't fathom how you could keep bringing up the fact that even in the web novel, these chapters are completely inconsequential filler and not get the idea that they probably shouldn't be a part of the main series.
But this is no After Story. Hori and Miyamura are completely stagnant characters at this point. Like I said before, they dont feel like they're stronger because of each other anymore. Both of them are stable enough that the other could vanish, and they wouldn't be worse for wear.
@mainimi Okay, I've been trying to ignore this for a while, but why the hell do you keep bringing up the web novel like it's some smoking gun?
YOU yourself are admitting that these are god damned omake chapters and that the web novel's core series never included any of this nonsense. This mangaka is clearly just trying to milk the series for all that it's worth.
And like I just said to Hexxy, it would be fine if this continuation of the story had absolutely any main character development whatsoever. But no, two of the most subtly dynamic and interesting couples in manga have been devolved into this flawless dream couple with no nuance.
I can't fathom how you could keep bringing up the fact that even in the web novel, these chapters are completely inconsequential filler and not get the idea that they probably shouldn't be a part of the main series.
Member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2018
- Messages
- 86
@Aretheus The reason I'm bringing up the web version is because I'm telling you the web manga simply had a timeskip and then it ended without any significant development further than we've had for any of the characters (from what I remember, I think a few of the last chapters were actually about Iura and his sister, for example, not Hori and Miyamura like you want), that's why we're having some of the omake chapters filling the gaps in between (both with comedy AND significant character interactions), because otherwise the ending will absolutely feel unsatisfactory and inconclusive. I also keep bringing it up because it's an example of exactly what the intent of the writer was, and it wasn't just what you think it is.
Further, you seem to think that the whole comedy and nonsense in the manga are omake chapters, and keep bringing them up as if they were filler that doesn't belong in the "main story", even though a lot of this "nonsense" is actually from the original story, because like I said, this wasn't supposed to be just some story about a couple supporting each other (though Hori and Miyamura are definitely at the center piece of the story), but also about comfy highschool comedy and slice of life.
The only reason for you to be mad here is your own damn misconception about what the manga was supposed to be about, or what you wanted it to be about. You could just simply stop reading of this kind of stuff isn't for you instead of crying about not getting what you want.
Further, you seem to think that the whole comedy and nonsense in the manga are omake chapters, and keep bringing them up as if they were filler that doesn't belong in the "main story", even though a lot of this "nonsense" is actually from the original story, because like I said, this wasn't supposed to be just some story about a couple supporting each other (though Hori and Miyamura are definitely at the center piece of the story), but also about comfy highschool comedy and slice of life.
The only reason for you to be mad here is your own damn misconception about what the manga was supposed to be about, or what you wanted it to be about. You could just simply stop reading of this kind of stuff isn't for you instead of crying about not getting what you want.
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2018
- Messages
- 550
@Mainimi Ahh, that brilliant argument. "Just stop reading it LOOOOOL." "Just don't criticize things LOOOOOL." "Who cares if this once incredible manga is now being bastardized? LOOOOOL."
Yeah, no. I'll criticize what I consider worth criticism. I'll praise what I consider worthy of praise. If you're the kind of person that seriously thinks that there should only ever be one narrative being circulated on a public forum, then try browsing Reddit instead where you can downvote and strip away exposure for opinions that you don't agree with.
I also like how you completely ignore my previous statements about how the slice-of-life aspects during the early-middle portion of the story were always a framing device for character development.
"the web manga simply had a timeskip and then it ended without any significant development"
^ Do you even realize what this statement means? It means that if you strip the content from the omake chapters out of the story, it will have zero consequences to how the ending plays out. That's called inconsequential filler that has no place in the flagship series of a franchise. It belongs in a spin-off series, but the Mangaka won't do that, because "Horimiya" is a title that people are already familiar with, and are more likely to buy it. Who caaaaaaares about having a concise and rich story? Who caaaares about getting a message across?
But like I said, it's clear to me that you're not even looking for a discussion anymore now that you're trying to tell me that having different opinions isn't allowed.
Yeah, no. I'll criticize what I consider worth criticism. I'll praise what I consider worthy of praise. If you're the kind of person that seriously thinks that there should only ever be one narrative being circulated on a public forum, then try browsing Reddit instead where you can downvote and strip away exposure for opinions that you don't agree with.
I also like how you completely ignore my previous statements about how the slice-of-life aspects during the early-middle portion of the story were always a framing device for character development.
"the web manga simply had a timeskip and then it ended without any significant development"
^ Do you even realize what this statement means? It means that if you strip the content from the omake chapters out of the story, it will have zero consequences to how the ending plays out. That's called inconsequential filler that has no place in the flagship series of a franchise. It belongs in a spin-off series, but the Mangaka won't do that, because "Horimiya" is a title that people are already familiar with, and are more likely to buy it. Who caaaaaaares about having a concise and rich story? Who caaaares about getting a message across?
But like I said, it's clear to me that you're not even looking for a discussion anymore now that you're trying to tell me that having different opinions isn't allowed.
