Houkago no Idol ni wa Himitsu ga aru - Ch. 16 - Kuromiya-san's Acting

[kuma]

I want to highlight this part specifically.

From the very beginning, I have not disagreed with the statement that Chinese students are some of the most stressed due to academic pressures.

But you, in your posts, directly connected the "East Asian" system with student suicide, and you highlighted China as one example. I am in agreement with you that the system puts stress and pressure on students. I never disagreed with that. I disagree that what you call the "East Asian" system results in suicides, and China shows that. Just to be as clear as possible, I am disagreeing in the link and conclusion, not the premise.

Next, you say suicide and fear of social, familial retaliation is not viewed favorably in China while it is in... Taiwan... I hope you understand that the culture of Taiwan is extremely similar to the culture of China for a reason. Unless we want to talk about actual, aboriginal Taiwanese, the majority culture of Taiwan is from Han Chinese, the same as in China. Unless you want to credit the government of Chiba for discouraging suicide or you want to blame the Taiwanese government for encouraging suicide, the comparison falls apart. And you could. There are arguments for and against it. But it's not clear cut.

That's especially true in a historical context, where Chinese culture has a history of ritual suicide in certain situations. And yet, China today has a fairly low rate.

And here's another example. There's another country that's often left out in talks about "East Asia". Lots of different reasons to leave it out. It's poorer than every other Confucian country except North Korea. It was blacklisted from the world for a few decades. Vietnam has extremely high academic competition. On international scholastic measures, Vietnam routinely ranks well and above much, much richer countries (see PISA rankings). That's specifically in spite of the lack of money. And yet, despite all of the rigors and stress of the "East Asian" system that you talk about, suicide rates in Vietnam are fairly low. Again, you could maybe talk about the government policies. There are arguments for and against it.

To reiterate, you have made way too broad of a statement that breaks down when looked at closer. Your example of China doesn't hold up. I know you didn't give Vietnam as an example (basically no one does), but Vietnam shows your comment about the "East Asian" system is wrong.

china suicide rate in general is low among east asia regardless of the ages, while taiwan is much higher. china has 9.8 suicide per 100000 people per year while taiwan is 20.1. for comparison SK is 26 while japan is 17.5. it has less to do with historical culture, but more of socioeconomic reality.

also who even consider vietnam east asia? they didn't have rigorous overcompetitive exam result like china, NK, or japan has and as result their student stress and depression rate pretty low. in vietnam, only 15% high school student reporting stress and depression while china the number is 30% from academic stress ALONE. the number reported even higher according to teachers testimony (already linked the source above, which from china government owned media release).
https://journalppw.com/index.php/jpsp/article/download/12787/8288/15456

i am not saying "all east asia people wrong" here. i am talking purely on statistic view and the number does suggest school life in east asia more stressful than normal and caused the high rate suicide among teenagers. this even acknowledged by china, taiwan, SK, and Japan own government, but lack any progress to change. as recently there is mass protest in SK because this very same high pressure education system
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/05/asia/south-korea-teachers-protest-suicide-intl-hnk/index.html

 

[comeonnow0]

china suicide rate in general is low among east asia regardless of the ages, while taiwan is much higher. china has 9.8 suicide per 100000 people per year while taiwan is 20.1. for comparison SK is 26 while japan is 17.5. it has less to do with historical culture, but more of socioeconomic reality.

also who even consider vietnam east asia? they didn't have rigorous overcompetitive exam result like china, NK, or japan has and as result their student stress and depression rate pretty low. in vietnam, only 15% high school student reporting stress and depression while china the number is 30% from academic stress ALONE. the number reported even higher according to teachers testimony (already linked the source above, which from china government owned media release).
https://journalppw.com/index.php/jpsp/article/download/12787/8288/15456

i am not saying "all east asia people wrong" here. i am talking purely on statistic view and the number does suggest school life in east asia more stressful than normal and caused the high rate suicide among teenagers. this even acknowledged by china, taiwan, SK, and Japan own government, but lack any progress to change. as recently there is mass protest in SK because this very same high pressure education system
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/05/asia/south-korea-teachers-protest-suicide-intl-hnk/index.html

china suicide rate in general is low

That's my point. You're proving my point. Despite having the "East Asian" education and testing system that you point out, they still have very low suicide rates. Not just "among east asia", but among the whole world, relatively low.

That proves the problem with your statement.

also who even consider vietnam east asia?

Lots of scholars and actual, serious writers. From Wikipedia, "Some scholars include Vietnam as part of East Asia as it has been considered part of the greater Chinese sphere of influence."

Vietnam was literally ruled over by China for over 1000 years, and as a cultural thing, Vietnam is widely considered in the same cultural area as China, Japan, and Korea (meaning all of the Korean area). As a cultural thing, which is explicitly what we are talking about, you are just wrong.

they didn't have rigorous overcompetitive exam result like china, NK, or japan has

False. Demonstrably false. Did you even look this up? Also from Wikipedia, "Vietnam is known for its curriculum that is deemed highly competitive." Here's a website with a person's experiences as well as some linked statistics.

That shows that yes, despite what you say, Vietnam's educational system is HIGHLY competitive. You can look at PISA results to see that too, which I already mentioned but apparently you ignored. In Mathematics, Vietnam ranked 24th in the world, immediately above much richer France. In Science, Vietnam is FOURTH in the world, above Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. In Reading, Vietnam is 13th, above Japan and Taiwan.

in vietnam, only 15% high school student reporting stress and depression

Okay. I fully concede that statistic. So what? You're missing the point. Vietnam has the same kind of "East Asian", highly competitive education system as China, Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. Same system. And yet, they have "only" 15% of high school students reporting stress and depression. They have low rates of suicide.

That again proves the problem with your statement. Your own statistics support what I am saying.

i am not saying "all east asia people wrong" here.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to blame you for saying or suggesting that. I'm not trying to attack you, and I understand that you are trying to have a sincere and serious discussion about this. I still think you are wrong, and I'm explaining that, but I'm not going to caricature what you say.

i am talking purely on statistic view and the number does suggest school life in east asia more stressful than normal and caused the high rate suicide among teenagers.

But the statistics don't support what you said when you look at China, which, again, has low suicide rates.

---

I also want to say I'm using Wikipedia as a shorthand for an easily accessible source you could've found too. I know it's not the best source. There are others. My point in using it is that you should've been able to see some of it too.

---

I want to take a step back and say I do appreciate you having a conversation with me about this. Again, I think you are wrong on a lot of parts, but I understand you're taking this relatively seriously.

Again, I do think you are too broad in your statement. Let me give a comparison. Imagine I said something like "All of Europe is to the east of the 30th meridian east." Then someone comes in and asks what about the UK. Ireland. Portugal. Spain. France. Germany. The Czech Republic. Your statement is a similar kind of thing. You talk about the "East Asian" system, but very clearly, what you said is untrue for China, which is your own example. It's also untrue for Vietnam, which yes, is part of East Asia culturally.

But again, at the very least, your statement is just too broad, and your own example of China shows that what you said isn't true.

 

[Sagara-Sousuke]

I don't know why but his seeing the pen as a soft drink was too hilarious

 

[biologist]

Less serious irl stuff and more fluffy stuff please.
I love this artist style.
It reminds me of something I can't remember from my youth.

 

[UnvalidUserName]

Does she have the eyebag fetish like Kaguya?

 

[ShinduPK4]

See, this situation would be sweet to me as a reader if the author omitted the bullshit confession drama. Now her acting just annoys me because it constantly reminds me of it, and of the fact that the author will do anything to make the manga longer.