Hyouge Mono - Vol. 12 Ch. 129 - HUMAN NATURE (Monkey)

[MangaDex]

 

[StubbornOne]

Came across a picture of the ware: https://chano-yu.com/japanese-museum-antiques/japans-national-treasure-shinochawan-unohanagaki/

 

[ScarletLouse]

....and Hidetada gets Tokugawa-slapped yet again. Anybody kept count of how many times he's had his amateurishness exposed by his dad so far? He may be the spitting image of his dad, but their temperaments seem to contrast even if their values and beliefs may not. I'm pretty sure it will come to play at the very end of the manga.

That aside, @StubbornOne I couldn't quite follow Hideyoshi's "human nature" monologue and what exactly he was getting at with it, other than that he didn't seem to trust Tokugawa to stay true to his word, going by the latter's response

 

[StubbornOne]

@ScarletLouse He expects Ieyasu to betray him and seize power. My interpretation of the 'intelligence' part is he's saying humans are self-serving and become unpredictable animals that lash out once they feel restrained (consider Ieyasu's plans to achieve 'righteousness'). Ieyasu can't be the next him/Nobunaga as he hasn't done the same kind of callous, fear-instilling things they did to maintain control, e.g. killing random dudes publicly, executing Hidetsugu, having Oribe execute Rikyu to prevent rebellion etc. Sorry if I didn't translate well.

 

[ScarletLouse]

@StubbornOne Ah, I see it now - he's illustrating how Ieyasu has the rugged hands that can sieze power, but he lacks the ruthlessness required to hold on to it (though IRL he actually seems to have had a track record for that too, seeing as he had his first wife and son executed for charges of treason against his then-overlord, well before the events of Hyouge Mono apparently). Thanks for the clarification.

Also, even a know-nothing like me can appreciate the translatory challenge involved in being able to carry across certain metaphors/figures of speech in a way that reflects multiple meanings/intentions of the same phrase and such, and all the more so in classical contexts. I'm sure it wasn't for lack of skill/competence on your end.