Iken Senki Völundio - Ch. 3 - Tavern

[REMasher]

Helck has taught me that mascot characters are anything but.

 

[cgr]

@sssr

So in the real world...

incorrect, in the modern world. Helck society is closer to medieval so our modern methods would not be as effective.

and based on our understanding of legality and morality,

incorrect, only based on modern international legality .

based on morality: Racism is the belief [/b ]that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another. therefore, the knight and her kingdom in this chapter have not shown racism (yet).
the knight is probably not racist at all, since I doubt she could just topple her kingdom's laws by herself, she told them to leave beforehand so kohaku could legally leave, but since cleo was insistent they enter her nation, kohaku has to be arrested.

racism is much more of a moral issue than a legal one, so you bringing up legality doesn't mean much

 

[Confetti]

Nooo! Poffy Stop got destroyed!

It was innocent…

 

[Siquall]

RIP Tavern-chan.
Chapter 3-Chapter 3.

 

[R4ampage]

Poffy Stop was such a nice name too... 😭

 

[Stalkerman]

Why am I getting cabbage merchant vibes from this tavern?

 

[Ironclad]

I fear the day we run into Puffy.

 

[bk3k]

I like the MC instantly changing his attitude the moment discrimination came into play.
In any case I'm somehow hoping for a little bit Dr Stone and a little bit Suikoden set in the world of Helck. At least that's the vibe I'm getting here.

@cgr

2. her kingdom might have legit reasons for forbidding demi-humans- for example, a lot of demi-humans could have been enemies during the previous war

Have they fought a war against demi-humans? Very possibly.
Have they fought a war against other humans? Certainly.
Are they forbidding demi-humans? Yes.
Are they forbidding humans? No.

So where does the legitimacy come into play there? That's just bigotry no matter how I see it. But sadly that's also exactly what I'd expect to happen.

 

[cgr]

@bk3k

Have they fought a war against demi-humans? Very possibly.
Have they fought a war against other humans? Certainly.

Where did this come from? nothing confirms that their war(s) was against humans.

So where does the legitimacy come into play there?

I meant legit as in logical. If demihumans have recently caused them lots of trouble - more trouble than humans have caused them, then it would probably be impractical and unsafe for the nation to allow demi-humans in.

 

[anak_sampah]

*page 26

Heeyyyy, I know that reference! ONE PUNCH!!!!

 

[ryouhira]

@cgr there's no proof but that's almost 100% true.

before Cleo pass out, it's humans fought against humans.
even in Helck, Humans still have to fight against humans.

 

[cgr]

@ryouhira

no proof but that's almost 100% true.

already an oxymoron

humans fought against humans.

and humans fought against demons both before and after cleo passed out. so I'm not sure what your point is.

also, this clearly a different time/place than helck's story: we haven't heard the term 'demi-human' in helck, and we haven't heard the term 'demon' in this series, so a lot of setting details in helck might not be relevant to this series.

 

[PramTheOracle]

Poffy is gonna be instrumental against the final boss

I can feel it

 

[1234muse]

[please delete]

 

[1234muse]

ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNE PUUUUUUUUUUUNCH!

 

[MerlinD]

Kohaku is angy

 

[Pallington]

@cgr



Around here, we call that racism. You don't unilaterally declare an entire race to be enemy combatants. If you're an agent of the state enforcing racist laws, that doesn't make you any less racist. "I was just following orders" was not, is not, and will never be an excuse.

ACAB, legit

 

[Pallington]

@4V29LN0n
you're jumping to conclusions too soon:
1. as a knight, she's enforcing her kingdom's laws, she might not have anything against demi-humans personally
2. her kingdom might have legit reasons for forbidding demi-humans- for example, a lot of demi-humans could have been enemies during the previous war

1. classic libshit thinking (as a communist, I say this)
By willingly bringing up the issue and enforcing it, she is directly demonstrating her belief that the discrimination is justified.
Since they're cooperating, the least she could do is turn a blind eye, if not outright say "there's this issue so you might wanna find a way to hide those ears."

2. Oh, so every country on earth is justified to ban every other group for no other reason than "we fought a while back"? You really enjoy forever wars, dontcha

 

[cgr]

1. classic libshit thinking (as a communist, I say this)

mocking other political views on an international forum is freaking rude (I'm not really liberal btw) .

By willingly bringing up the issue

Since they're cooperating, the least she could do is turn a blind eye,

I repeat: she only brought it up when Cleo and Kohaku insisted on entering their nation, she turned a blind eye at the start.

and enforcing it, she is directly demonstrating her belief

...I really shouldn't have to repeat the obvious : job/duty (giri) =/= belief. most people have to do something they don't personally like/believe in , a few times in their job. even if you personally disagree, this manga's main readers- japanese view job/giri more highly than you. next chapter, Kohaku even directly tells her 'you were just doing your job' : https://mangadex.org/chapter/5dc03613-dba1-44e2-8c6d-8f42b2d7b883/3

she is also 'directly demonstrating' to the soldiers with her - if even one of the soldiers there can't be trusted to keep this a secret (like being more loyal to higher ups than her, drinks too much/being a natural blabbermouth), she and the other soldiers may face serious punishment for not doing their job.

if not outright say "there's this issue so you might wanna find a way to hide those ears."

It's fully possible it doesn't work, or has a high chance of leading to actual deaths.

2. Oh, so every country on earth is justified to ban every other group for no other reason than "we fought a while back"? You really enjoy forever wars, dontcha

1. it's fully possible there is an ongoing war, not just 'a while back'
2. 'forever' is a stupid exaggeration

you clearly missed this part of my comment:

war time measures and short-term post-war measures for the nation's protection =/= racism

 

[Pallington]

mocking other political views on an international forum is freaking rude (I'm not really liberal btw) .



I repeat: she only brought it up when Cleo and Kohaku insisted on entering their nation, she turned a blind eye at the start.

...I really shouldn't have to repeat the obvious : job/duty (giri) =/= belief. most people have to do something they don't personally like/believe in , a few times in their job. even if you personally disagree, this manga's main readers- japanese view job/giri more highly than you. next chapter, Kohaku even directly tells her 'you were just doing your job' : https://mangadex.org/chapter/5dc03613-dba1-44e2-8c6d-8f42b2d7b883/3

she is also 'directly demonstrating' to the soldiers with her - if even one of the soldiers there can't be trusted to keep this a secret (like being more loyal to higher ups than her, drinks too much/being a natural blabbermouth), she and the other soldiers may face serious punishment for not doing their job.

It's fully possible it doesn't work, or has a high chance of leading to actual deaths.

1. it's fully possible there is an ongoing war, not just 'a while back'
2. 'forever' is a stupid exaggeration

you clearly missed this part of my comment:

mocking other political views is rude

lol

blind eye at the start

blind eye as in "fuck outta here, this is our land, even tho we're not even planning on having people here," seems totally legit (not), but sure, no displacement tendencies here

insisted on entering

yeah and of course she has to go and accept their request to join before telling them about the whole "demihumans cannot enter" rule, thus she must arrest kohaku.
but sure, that's a nitpick. No, the demihuman can't stay in the boonies and sit it out, she has to fucking bring kohaku in, cleo can't just go alone, nuh-uh

job

acab. and?

kohaku is understanding

kohaku is nice, and accepting of the fact that humans are oft dumbasses.

next chapter

considering your next point is about the fairly spineless soldiers, i'm not sure you really want to be using the next chapter, as their behavior proves there's no need for her to show off, or at the very least that if she wanted to she could dig a way around it.

doesn't work, actual deaths

oh so forcing the confrontation now doesn't have that risk? never mind that you'll get hit by the risk five times in a week anyways???

fully possible there is an ongoing war

yeah so reject all newcomers cuz who fucking knows who's a spy and who's not. Otherwise, guess what, you've just done some racial profiling. Gratz.

'forever' is a stupid exaggeration

do you... do you know that forever war is a fucking term? and that of course it doesn't literally mean "now until heat death of universe"??? anyways, if fighting a war is enough to go full racial profiling you're expecting to either 1 subjugate the other party entirely, 2 get subjugated entirely, or 3 end up both nuked before you decide "hey maybe we should stop."

missed part of my comments

it is racism, though. It literally just is. "war/national threat = can racial profile" is the excuse for wiping out the pick-mes, and has (almost) always been this way. in fact 9066 didn't even wipe pick mes, it wiped perfectly normal folk with a miniscule true positive rate. people criticize stalin for the gulags, guess what, same fucking reasoning, except that wasn't even on racial lines but political ones! (here I quote Losurdo)

edit:
in fact, here's a working version that'll get the same detainment but circumvent all but the most sensitive accusations of racism:
lightning user appeared to have demihuman features (horn might not be spotted properly, looks merely like a protrusion lifting the hood), so please allow administrative detainment until we can verify that you aren't the lightning user
bam, same thing, not racist.
Now in the end, we weren't supposed to sympathize with the kingdom, and to begin with her racism is more a symptom of immaturity and being dyed entirely by her environment (reflected clearly in her combat, political handling, etc), but if you had to draw a demarcating line, then, racist.