Imasara desu ga, Osananajimi o Suki ni Natte Shimaimashita - Ch. 43 - The Pride of the Lecturing Girls

[HellJester]

I don't understand that last two pages. What do they mean about the whole trust thing and not telling Hikarin about it?

In the novelization for Chapter 43, when Haru and Yuu are first talking (after Yuki and Seki move to another table), Haru's thoughts deal with how Yuu doesn't seem to have a sense of urgency regarding the situation. She thinks he's being weirdly calm about everything. She figured he'd be panicking and flailing after being suddenly dumped by Hikari when previously things had been going so well.

This next part is my speculation on why Yuu seems to be so nonchalant. 1). It could be that he's known Hikari for so long that he thinks she's strong enough to not need his help and so he'll focus on Yami who will definitely need it or 2). Perhaps Yuu has jumped to the conclusion that Hikari will never go out with him and maybe even break off the friendship (keep in mind Yuu tends to think the worst case scenario) and so he's currently in the depression or acceptance stage of grief which is why he doesn't seem to react too much when they bring up Hikari.

At the end on the train, Haru and Yuki are commenting on the fact that this entire chapter, Yuu seemed to only be concerned with Yami and how she's doing and not really concerned with Hikari or how she's doing. In the beginning of the chapter he mentions that he won't talk to them unless they're also friends with Yami. He goes out of his way to defend Yami and ask the two girls to please continue to be friends with her.

The two girls speculate that Yuu trusts Hikari due to how long they've been together and that's why he doesn't appear to be that concerned about her. Yuki then says on the last page that the level of trust he's showing Hikari is bad if she's supposed to be his love interest. What she's saying isn't that trusting someone is inherently bad. What she means is that in her mind, if Yuu truly loved Hikari romantically, he'd be focusing his attention on Hikari and asking about her or trying to get in touch. Instead, he's focusing most or all of his attention on Yami.

Haru admonishes Yuki and tells her not to mention this to Hikari because she assumes Hikari would be hurt by this information. Haru is assuming that Hikari would not want to hear about her love interest ignoring her and focusing all his attention on his ex-girlfriend.

 

[Trevoga]

The characters are very close to realising they're in a poorly written manga

 

[ppaaccoojrf]

Lol love how they point out he only cared about Yami. Literally only focus was Yami.

What's with the he's been with her since childhood so he trusts her? The fuck is that? Just cause you trust someone doesn't mean you can't be worried about them. At this point Yuu and Yami should just get together and leave Hikari the fuck alone.

WHY ARE ALL OF THESE CHARACTERS SO ASS (except Hikari just cause).

At this point it's a character trait that Hikari is perceived as perfect in every way by everyone (especially Yuu), so it's not out of character that everyone assumes she's probably doing better than the known landmine that is Yami.

 

[ppaaccoojrf]

The reason why Hikari is at fault too is because she did nothing and now it's too late

Not as bad as the other two, but she still carries some blame

I can't disagree more.
Hikari was never really that passive about her feelings for Yuu.
She started liking him after he had already dated (and broken up with) Yami and around the same time that she met Yami. However fast or slow nothing would change the starting condition, and going from beginning to catch feelings to inviting to a date in basically around 6 months is not terribly slow anyways.

 

[Catbowl]

Other person who I recommend very strongly never see White Album 2 and/or Saekano. Believe, Yuu is an alpha male compared with Aki Tomoya and Haruki Kitahara -my avatar-

I have the opposite advice: Whether you love or hate this manga, definitely check out White Album 2 at some point, because it's a masterpiece that weaves the shared-guilt thing way better. No other love triangle before or after has hit me that hard.

Haruki's still more confident and proactive in general than Yuu, due to being the protag and not growing up in the shadow of his crush. I'd say there's more to like about him as a viewer and a hypothetical girl (outside of the Yami unicorn scenario), especially since Yuu's been on a whiffing streak, and seems resigned to not make a move at this point.

 

[BobSmegdorf]

Its... Its so garbage...

 

[story645]

"it turned out he secretly took exams to enter the same school as me, even though it should've been out of his league"

That's the point - Yuu feels he has to achieve something out his league (& in hers) to get him to notice her b/c he doesn't think where he's at is good enough b/c she hasn't noticed him.

 

[UdenEmpati]

At this point it's a character trait that Hikari is perceived as perfect in every way by everyone (especially Yuu), so it's not out of character that everyone assumes she's probably doing better than the known landmine that is Yami.

though in-character, it was still noteworthy enough to Haru and Yuki that they both thought that, if he's always liked Hikari and Hikari now likes him (or until very recently did like him, potentially), the fact he spares no thought for her, seems odd.

Like, even if he thinks Hikari wants nothing to do with him right now, he'd at least be able to show that he's grown a bit if he asks Haru & Yuki to pass on a "I'm here if you need me" to his oldest friend and love interest. Being more proactive, not sitting in his own head, and whatnot. But, in reality?
Nothing at all, only thinking of his ex.
It's strange, even if Hikari's strong and perfect and could very well be okay.

To the point that I kinda wonder if it's actually setting up a plot point where she's not, and yet everything assumes she is, and it's exacerbating her suffering.

 

[peortega1]

I have the opposite advice: Whether you love or hate this manga, definitely check out White Album 2 at some point, because it's a masterpiece that weaves the shared-guilt thing way better. No other love triangle before or after has hit me that hard.

Haruki's still more confident and proactive in general than Yuu, due to being the protag and not growing up in the shadow of his crush. I'd say there's more to like about him as a viewer and a hypothetical girl (outside of the Yami unicorn scenario), especially since Yuu's been on a whiffing streak, and seems resigned to not make a move at this point.

I agree that White Album 2 weaves shared-guilt much better. In Imasara, I think Maruto seeks to blame society more than the teenagers, and that's why he works from that scenario of a public school versus a private school, so typical in shoujo -Kaoru Hana- but relatively absent in shounen. Imasara is more of a social critique (as we can see from the fact that Ayami didn't receive any help from her private school despite her pleas, while Kazusa did receive more support and concern from the pre-university Houjou public high school, which she rejected).

Ayami would never have been able to ghost Yuu if it weren't for the fact that they attended different schools that were geographically distant.

And yes, Haruki is more confident and proactive than Yuu, but when he is actually able to take the initiative and act, he makes decisions that only make things worse and are increasingly worse than the last. I prefer Yuu's passivity a thousand times over.

And seeing all almost anybody here supported call Yuu a "liar" and a "manipulator"... yes, Dex people definitely will hate Haruki, who was really a liar and a manipulator, over all after cultural festival in anime episode 7. If Yuu seemed to this people a hypocrite, I don´t want to even guess what they would think about Haruki abandoning his girlfriend during their graduation to persecute Kazusa (best friend of Setsuna either) and have sex with her while the already mentioned girlfriend is calling to the phones of both

And this is important because Haruki's apparent confidence and proactivity stem from the original trauma of not having parents, of not having a family. Yuu is written to be a Haruki who DID HAVE PARENTS, hence he doesn't need to put on armor to protect himself nor was he forced to take on the responsibilities in his life as Haruki was.

And no, I do believe Yuu did make a move at this point, or failing that, it was Hikari who went to his room to find him, like Setsuna did with Haruki that morning after "graduation night" with Kazusa. They probably did have their Haruki-Setsuna conversation on the train from the airport to Narita, and that's where their motivation to "let's save Ayami" came from.

I'd say Haruki definitely grew up in the shadow of his crush, Kazusa. Haruki's crush on Kazusa was always much more incomprehensible to me than Yuu's crush on Hikari, especially considering all the people who warned Haruki about Kazusa—and that no one warned Yuu about "Yami-senpai"—

 

[peortega1]

I have the opposite advice: Whether you love or hate this manga, definitely check out White Album 2 at some point, because it's a masterpiece that weaves the shared-guilt thing way better.

And that's precisely why I singled out Shikimori-san as a linking work intended to be a more optimistic and lighthearted retelling of White Album 2 (while maintaining the underlying theme of shared-guilt by well-intentioned people who didn't want to hurt anyone, and emphasizing more the theme of gender role-reversal that WA2 had already explored), especially in the Kamiya Arc, which is probably why it caught Maruto's interest.

Specifically, Yuu Izumi, Ai Kamiya, and Miyako Shikimori are written to be Haruki, Kazusa, and Chiaki, but who really having their parents present in their lives. Even if both Kamiya and Shikimori come from dysfunctional homes, at least both girls still have their mothers, just like Ayami, even if both of her fathers are surely dead or divorced.

These are the reasons why Yuu, Ai and Miyako don't repeat the mistakes of Haruki, Kazusa, and Chiaki, or at least not as gravely—although they are also more "normal" and less willing to risk everything for their love interest. And yes, there's a reason why I mention Chiaki instead of Setsuna, since Miyako is definitely not a "normal girl" with a complete family like Setsuna was, and in her jealous, maternal, and yandere personality, she evokes Chiaki much more.

While Hikari is made, for her part, to be more of a "Yuu in female form", which fits much more with her being an expy of both Setsuna... and Nekozaki in Shikimori-san —including Nekozaki's friendship with Kamiya and his attempts to integrate her into her wider group of friends, who included the previously established couple Haruki-Chiaki, I mean, Izumi-Shikimori.

That's why even Ayami is a much more positive and well-intentioned character than Kazusa, her worst sin being, compared to Kazusa in IC and Coda, is, check notes... that Ayami had consensual sex with the boy she liked and quickly became his official girlfriend (even if it was a relatively secret relationship she didn't want to share with the most of the rest of the world, a flaw she shares with both Kamiya and Shikimori).

 

[peortega1]

Like, even if he thinks Hikari wants nothing to do with him right now, he'd at least be able to show that he's grown a bit if he asks Haru & Yuki to pass on a "I'm here if you need me" to his oldest friend and love interest. Being more proactive, not sitting in his own head, and whatnot.

Again, IMO he already talked with Hikari. But seeing the omake chapters confirmed he really was to Yami school to look her after the break up -and again, I´m still thinking the line of Yami "why do you always find me, Yuu?" hints she was actively avoiding his attempts to re-meet her-
We can still secure he at least tried to look Hikari in her house and tried to talk with her. Fuck, the most logical is the same Hikari who confronted Yami precisely did it to have a basis to contrast with the point of view of Yuu when she would going to talk with him about his past relationship with "Aya-chan", and a little after that, Hikari went to Yuu room to talk with him.
Like Setsuna did it when she went to Haruki house in episode 13 of White Album 2, as I already said.

 

[GennArc]

That's the point - Yuu feels he has to achieve something out his league (& in hers) to get him to notice her b/c he doesn't think where he's at is good enough b/c she hasn't noticed him.

I think you're adding an extra layer where it's unnecessary.
She doesn't see him as a boy. He thinks he needs to do something that changes this situation. He goes for a solution that should surprise her, make her aware of his big efforts (because the school is not on his academic level) and make her realize he's doing it for her.
There's no "she didn't notice him because he's not good enough" in this equation. He might even actually think that, but it doesn't affect this situation.

 

[waldo220]

In the wise words of ProZD: Why don't these guys just...fuck each other?

 

[story645]

He goes for a solution that should surprise her, make her aware of his big efforts (because the school is not on his academic level) and make her realize he's doing it for her.

In chapter 17, Yuu says he took the exam b/c he was trying to catch up to her. Yeah he may not have wanted her to know he had a crush on her, but what he reveals in 17 is too vulnerable for it to just be cover.

"I mean, I never beat you at anything, Hikari. Not at studying, or sports, or... being with people. I was terrible at everything. In all of middle school, the only thing I ever got ahead of you in was my height."

I had no idea he'd felt... self-conscious about me.

"Back then, you were always laughing, always at the center of everything, cool and boyish."
"...Wait, was that last one supposed to be a compliment?"
"Haha... Yeah, okay, maybe you're not like that anymore."

I had no idea he'd thought of me as a rival.

"I mean, back then, that's how I saw you, Hikari."

I had no idea he'd been aware of me, noticing me, all along.

"That's why I wanted to beat you. At the very least, catch up to you... Sorry I never told you."

 

[peortega1]

In the wise words of ProZD: Why don't these guys just...fuck each other?

Hikari is afraid from sex, even Haru and Yuki mention it in her debut chapter (chapter 5). She is the naive, passive and innocent girl rounded by an entire harem of girls with... experience. Even Haru seems to have kissed at least. Yuu also hints he is not the first boy who Seki feels attracted.
Hikari is the typical shoujo heroine in a romcom shonen/seinen manga, with, until now, Ayami and Haru as the real main characters.
Hikari is like if you would compare Kaoruko Wagari with, for example, Miyako Shikimori licking her fingers in the river episode or Anna Yamada sending photos in bikini in Dangers in My Heart, in both cases making this for her respective boyfriends. And of course, Setsuna and Kazusa using those idol clothes in the concert of cultural festival because Setsuna decided thus, because Haruki would enjoy it.

 

[peortega1]

In chapter 17, Yuu says he took the exam b/c he was trying to catch up to her. Yeah he may not have wanted her to know he had a crush on her, but what he reveals in 17 is too vulnerable for it to just be cover.

Yes, Genn said that too:

She doesn't see him as a boy. He thinks he needs to do something that changes this situation. There's no "she didn't notice him because he's not good enough" in this equation. He might even actually think that, but it doesn't affect this situation.

Inferiority complex of Yuu because his low self-esteem doesn´t change the main point: Hikari doesn´t see him as a boy and only a big thing could change the situation. That big thing ended being Yami.
This is the reason why, as Genn said before, Hikari doesn´t refute when Yami says her she never wouldn´t have look Yuu without his relationship with Yami -even if Yami tries to reduce this relationship to sex because she doesn´t want admit her still alive feelings for Yuu to Hikari and by that reason she lies awarely-.

 

[UdenEmpati]

There's no "she didn't notice him because he's not good enough" in this equation. He might even actually think that, but it doesn't affect this situation.

wait - but if what actually matters is his perception of things, because that's what would inform his choices, decisions, and actions - then isn't it a moot point from Yuu's perspective, whether or not Hikari actually "didn't notice him because he wasn't good enough"?

 

[HellJester]

wait - but if what actually matters is his perception of things, because that's what would inform his choices, decisions, and actions - then isn't it a moot point from Yuu's perspective, whether or not Hikari actually "didn't notice him because he wasn't good enough"?

I agree. From Yuu's perspective, Hikari was only seeing him as her close childhood friend and nothing he was doing was able to change her mind. I would argue that there's nothing he, or anyone, could have done at that point in Hikari's life to get her to notice them romantically.

I would point out that if he paid a bit more attention he'd notice that Hikari wasn't seeing anyone in a romantic light (based on her rejecting anyone who confessed to her at the end of middle school) and if he had a bit more emotional maturity he'd realize she's not rejecting him because he's not good enough, she's rejecting anyone because she's not at a point in her life where she's capable of feeling romantic feelings.

She is a very late bloomer in the fact that she hasn't thought or felt a romantic attraction to anyone until she was 16 years old when she started noticing Yuu in a new light. There's nothing wrong with that but a good chunk of people are experiencing crushes & romantic feelings as early as grade school. At the very least, I'd say a vast majority of people have experienced romantic feelings by the end of middle school.

So Yuu is operating from the standpoint that he's felt romantic feelings for Hikari since grade school and now that he's reached the end of middle school, I don't believe it ever occurs to him that Hikari is completely in the dark when it comes to romance. He assumes she can think about people romantically, just like he can, and assumes that because she doesn't act differently around him that she must not think of him that way and therefore he's not worthy. He's taking his perception and automatically assuming the worst.

All this is to say that Yuu's default response is to almost always assume the worst. When he first met Hikari she asked him about the spots from his chicken pox and he broke down and cried thinking she was making fun of him when she was merely curious. When Hikari instantly knew the love letter was written by Yuu's friend, instead of thinking that she knew Yuu well enough to know this is an odd behavior from him (given that he hadn't previously made any signs of thinking of her romantically), Yuu immediately jumped to the conclusion that she didn't see him as a boy and that it was impossible for her to see him as a romantic partner. When Yuu failed the entrance exam to Hikari's high school he immediately jumped to the conclusion that he had no chance now to win Hikari's love (despite literally living next door to Hikari and having the potential to see her every day and slowly build up a romantic relationship or at least get her to see him in a different light).

 

[peortega1]

wait - but if what actually matters is his perception of things, because that's what would inform his choices, decisions, and actions - then isn't it a moot point from Yuu's perspective, whether or not Hikari actually "didn't notice him because he wasn't good enough"?

Doesn´t change he was right. Maybe for the wrong reason, but he was fully right in any case. Hikari doesn´t see him as a boy and was not interested on romance, period.

 

[GennArc]

In chapter 17, Yuu says he took the exam b/c he was trying to catch up to her. Yeah he may not have wanted her to know he had a crush on her, but what he reveals in 17 is too vulnerable for it to just be cover.

We definitely went through this once already - this is where I bring up him saying the same to Yami and her immediately recognizing him trying to hide his crush behind this catching up.

wait - but if what actually matters is his perception of things, because that's what would inform his choices, decisions, and actions - then isn't it a moot point from Yuu's perspective, whether or not Hikari actually "didn't notice him because he wasn't good enough"?

This is how the conversation unfolded:
1. I question whether he really puts Hikari on a pedestal, claiming it's not seen through his actions
2. As an evidence of it actually impacting his decisions, story645 brings up that whole exam saga
3. I'm saying that the exam saga would've happened regardless of him idealizing Hikari or not
What you're suggesting here is that if I am wrong in point 1 then next points don't matter. Which is valid, but I wouldn't be arguing if I thought my point is incorrect.

I would point out that if he paid a bit more attention he'd notice that Hikari wasn't seeing anyone in a romantic light

I think he knew that. I don't have anything to back it up, but at least in his POV chapters we never see him worrying about a competition, that she would fall for someone else. And all that despite knowing how popular she was.

and if he had a bit more emotional maturity he'd realize she's not rejecting him because he's not good enough

That's the point I am contesting - the "because he's not good enough" part, I am claiming he never thought that.