Internet Explorer - Ch. 65 - Firefox & Explorer
- Thread starter MangaDex
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@Everblaster And Edge is now Chromium based.
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Well, Microsoft re branded edge, at least on my PC, now I have a blue/green incomplete circle. They may just as well change the name. Weird.
@everblaster Does that mean they will finally kill off activex that has been plaguing corporate companies into jsing old browsers? Only reason IE existed after edge was due to activex and maybe sikverlight
Edit: They are only killing it in office 365, it will still plague us from the shadows
Edit: They are only killing it in office 365, it will still plague us from the shadows
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@sylvacoer
Lol, ya, I wonder when they'll include Brave here.
Lol, ya, I wonder when they'll include Brave here.
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I have been waiting for this arc for so long.
FIREFOX BEST GIRL
(and of course the unfortunate current news regarding Mozilla and implying the future of Firefox is dire)
FIREFOX BEST GIRL
(and of course the unfortunate current news regarding Mozilla and implying the future of Firefox is dire)
@AnacondaHL Whoa, what news, what''s happening to my Firefox
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@AnacondaHL Please don't take my waifu browser away
@R-Mod firefox-tan was caught by farmers trying to steal chickens from their coop, her only defense was "B-but they looked delicious!"
@anacondahl the layoffs are due to covid, aka they are temporary, in terms of marketshare its been stable for the past year. And even if we look back the past few years, one can argue while firefoxs share went down, its mostly due to not getting new users as market grows.
As for vision of delivering a slim simple browser, what? Firefox has always been a more tech focused browser that is feature rich and scalable. They did overhaul the browser afterwards to make it less bloated and more average user friendly, but their goal was never to make it a slim simple browser. Their goals for the past few years have been to better utilize the full potential of computers, specifically use all those cores and hardware acceleration which they started with project servo and have been deploying piece by piece since quantum
@anacondahl the layoffs are due to covid, aka they are temporary, in terms of marketshare its been stable for the past year. And even if we look back the past few years, one can argue while firefoxs share went down, its mostly due to not getting new users as market grows.
As for vision of delivering a slim simple browser, what? Firefox has always been a more tech focused browser that is feature rich and scalable. They did overhaul the browser afterwards to make it less bloated and more average user friendly, but their goal was never to make it a slim simple browser. Their goals for the past few years have been to better utilize the full potential of computers, specifically use all those cores and hardware acceleration which they started with project servo and have been deploying piece by piece since quantum
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@eng1 uh, no, Firefox exists because of the original desire to combat the Mozilla software bloat. Simple first, and allow for complexity and scaleup through customization. Firefox is becoming exactly what it set out to defeat.
And it should be telling that even in this recent area of an explosion of Internet use, Firefox still couldn't get new users. The core message of the software got diluted from too many attempts to copy Chrome, backing out just enough and in time to avoid just giving in like Edge did.
@ilvanezzo Yea, I was pretty shocked at IE/Edge succumbing to Chromium, but Firefox is the last stand against this. Really sucks, but I'm still hopeful for a big turnaround.
And it should be telling that even in this recent area of an explosion of Internet use, Firefox still couldn't get new users. The core message of the software got diluted from too many attempts to copy Chrome, backing out just enough and in time to avoid just giving in like Edge did.
@ilvanezzo Yea, I was pretty shocked at IE/Edge succumbing to Chromium, but Firefox is the last stand against this. Really sucks, but I'm still hopeful for a big turnaround.
@anacondahl uhm, if you mean why firefox exists, they didnt want people to install a giant seamonkey package so they broke it up into firefox and thunderbird for the most common components. A slim and simple browser was never the original goal.
As for what they set out to defeat, thier goal has been a free and open web, they wanted to defeat a closed web as close source tident ruled the web. In some sense, chromium kind of achieved what they wanted.
You say explosive internet but desktop is not growing much and mobile is a much harder market to take. IOS doesnt allow other engines, and while android does allow it, chrome is default and easier for people to use whats on thier desktop. They tried firefox os but budget android killed it. But KAios based on it is doing well in 3rd world
MS switched to chromium is no shocker either, most of the web is developed for webkit/blink. MS has spent too much effort to make trident be incompatible with other browsers. This was to insure that websites developed for IE wont work properly on others. But when they lost majority marketshare it backfired as developers stopped bothering testing for IE. Firefox doesnt have this problem because they always tried to insure compatibility.
As for what they set out to defeat, thier goal has been a free and open web, they wanted to defeat a closed web as close source tident ruled the web. In some sense, chromium kind of achieved what they wanted.
You say explosive internet but desktop is not growing much and mobile is a much harder market to take. IOS doesnt allow other engines, and while android does allow it, chrome is default and easier for people to use whats on thier desktop. They tried firefox os but budget android killed it. But KAios based on it is doing well in 3rd world
MS switched to chromium is no shocker either, most of the web is developed for webkit/blink. MS has spent too much effort to make trident be incompatible with other browsers. This was to insure that websites developed for IE wont work properly on others. But when they lost majority marketshare it backfired as developers stopped bothering testing for IE. Firefox doesnt have this problem because they always tried to insure compatibility.
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Mozilla laid off 250 employees. Some of them very important for the core feature "development tools", that keeps quite some users with advanced IT-knowlegde around, and the threat-management (hunts down of security issues). Those people will seek new jobs and I can't imagine them returning later on, so that's some good knowledge gone.
Also let me honorably mention MDN.
I also read somewhere, that 250 is around 25% of their staff, and many people aren't taking that Corona-reason. Maybe google cut them their budget, because they said they do make less money now with their advertisement, but maybe they (google/Mozilla management) want to shrink Mozilla even further. Mozilla beside: This is taking a horrible turn for Firefox and we might lose something very valuable. The best alternative to a google based web browser engine.
Trident going down, wasn't a good thing either. No matter alternatives like Brave (I can't write anything bad about it, as I didn't used it til now), if they are chromium based, in the end google has control over them to a good degree. How much of the source code of Blink is provided by google and what would happen, if they decide to flood it with new "better/advanced/more secure" code? Ain't they able to steer the project any direction they want? (Android is also an open source, free OS, but you can't tell me google isn't adding new "features" all the time. They own it.) Other players are also part of the gig, namely Samsung and Intel. I don't know about you, but Samsung, while providing very good products, didn't leave a good impression on me regarding "free-/fairness". They are hardcore players, when it comes down to their own interests. I fear some "well meant" feature will land in Blink as soon as Gecko is gone. (Its successor Servo also seems to be a victim of the recent Mozilla lay-offs.) Color me surprised, if no-tracking brave somehow manages to brave those tides of change.
Also let me honorably mention MDN.
I also read somewhere, that 250 is around 25% of their staff, and many people aren't taking that Corona-reason. Maybe google cut them their budget, because they said they do make less money now with their advertisement, but maybe they (google/Mozilla management) want to shrink Mozilla even further. Mozilla beside: This is taking a horrible turn for Firefox and we might lose something very valuable. The best alternative to a google based web browser engine.
Trident going down, wasn't a good thing either. No matter alternatives like Brave (I can't write anything bad about it, as I didn't used it til now), if they are chromium based, in the end google has control over them to a good degree. How much of the source code of Blink is provided by google and what would happen, if they decide to flood it with new "better/advanced/more secure" code? Ain't they able to steer the project any direction they want? (Android is also an open source, free OS, but you can't tell me google isn't adding new "features" all the time. They own it.) Other players are also part of the gig, namely Samsung and Intel. I don't know about you, but Samsung, while providing very good products, didn't leave a good impression on me regarding "free-/fairness". They are hardcore players, when it comes down to their own interests. I fear some "well meant" feature will land in Blink as soon as Gecko is gone. (Its successor Servo also seems to be a victim of the recent Mozilla lay-offs.) Color me surprised, if no-tracking brave somehow manages to brave those tides of change.
@qelix most users dont use developer tools and there is only so much more you can add to it these days, mdn is nice but web standards dont change by the minute. And youd be surprised how much impact corona has on businesses, speaking as someone who owns a business themselves.
Trident going down was some of the best thing that happened to the net. It makes developing for the net aa llt easier and less pain. The closed source nature of trident is also counter productive for the net.
If google tried to close source blink it would be more of a pain for them and others would simply fork it. Just like how google forked webkit which in itself is a fork of khtml. Not to mention browsing engines by nature follow web standards which isnt decided by google. But they do contribute to it. The only difficulty is maintaining render compatibility and i dont thing google has any interest in doing that. Not to mention part of the reason google pays mozilla for search is not just the search but also to insure they dont get hit with antitrust. Same reason MS bailed out Apple.
As for chromium itself and android too, the only features they have been adding is deeper google integration. Otherwise, both chromium and aosp android are identical to the chrome and paid android.
Servo isnt a successor to gecko as much as a development platform for gecko. Many stuff from servo are backported to gecko since quantum. But yes, that will definitely hurt.
PS wasnt brave the browser that added affiliate links secretly?
Trident going down was some of the best thing that happened to the net. It makes developing for the net aa llt easier and less pain. The closed source nature of trident is also counter productive for the net.
If google tried to close source blink it would be more of a pain for them and others would simply fork it. Just like how google forked webkit which in itself is a fork of khtml. Not to mention browsing engines by nature follow web standards which isnt decided by google. But they do contribute to it. The only difficulty is maintaining render compatibility and i dont thing google has any interest in doing that. Not to mention part of the reason google pays mozilla for search is not just the search but also to insure they dont get hit with antitrust. Same reason MS bailed out Apple.
As for chromium itself and android too, the only features they have been adding is deeper google integration. Otherwise, both chromium and aosp android are identical to the chrome and paid android.
Servo isnt a successor to gecko as much as a development platform for gecko. Many stuff from servo are backported to gecko since quantum. But yes, that will definitely hurt.
PS wasnt brave the browser that added affiliate links secretly?
