Isekai de Skill wo Kaitai Shitara Cheat na Yome ga Zoushoku Shimashita: Gainen Kousa no Structure - Vol. 4 Ch. 18
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nagi the slave hero ...
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Hot demon lord spotted.
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Why does he have to enslave everyone. I'm getting sick and tired of slavery in fantasy series. They never get it right anyways.
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@introvetchild It'wasn't a problem with Demon girl becuase she was already a slave, and mc saved her by buying her, it wasn't that much of a problem on priestess because the mental gymnastics worked out in her case. It makes 0 sense here because it's totally unnecessary
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@seekermoc The magic of home ownership, can't be a proper hero (slave owner) without a plantation.
Also Leticia's conditions for her contract are mighty harsh. As soon as some furniture breaks the contract is void? What about the bed? Normal wear and tear will destroy that over time with four to five people sleeping on it at any given time?
Also Leticia's conditions for her contract are mighty harsh. As soon as some furniture breaks the contract is void? What about the bed? Normal wear and tear will destroy that over time with four to five people sleeping on it at any given time?
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@degenerateafro It's for Aine's sake. That entire contract was for Aine's sake. If anything at all happens to Aine, anything in any shape or form that can be considered damage, he loses the property. That being said, yes including even the furniture is very concerning.
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It's like he treats these girls in humane ways never forcing anything upon them. What are the rules regarding slavery in this world? Does being a slave make it so men don't randomly hit on you? Does his skill only activate on slaves? Is it a metaphor for marriage or something? Same with every fantasy world with slavery if there is no reason for it why even do it. At least in shield hero he has one line in 50 chapters that justifies it.
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@07mak @Sharkexpert12 I think you are forgetting about the description of contracts from Chapter 1
Contracts are absolutely binding, so putting in a caveat that "if he breaks the furniture" could have been life ending without the caveat that the property rights revert to her should items be destroyed. However Aine's contract didn't have that caveat. Aine's contract is to "protect the house and clean it". So if Nagi destroys something in the house, he loses the property, but Aine violates her protection contract and suffers from insomnia.
Again, this is based off of the series logic that contracts are absolute.
So again, this was pretty dumb. There was no need to bind Aine with a contract, especially ones with conditions that she might not be able to fulfill should she ever become ill or incapacitated.
I get that the main reason for the "plot" is so that he can modify her stats with his orgasm inducing stat modification power, but it's pretty poorly thought out in terms of storyline. Especially for someone who thinks of Aine as her sister.
To refresh:
Cecyls contract doesn't have any real terms. He exchanged her for a rare spell
Ritas contract is to be forever loyal and for their bond to never sever, even into the next life.
Aines contract is to protect the house and its contents
It would have been better if Aine just vowed loyalty to Nagi instead.
Contracts are absolutely binding, so putting in a caveat that "if he breaks the furniture" could have been life ending without the caveat that the property rights revert to her should items be destroyed. However Aine's contract didn't have that caveat. Aine's contract is to "protect the house and clean it". So if Nagi destroys something in the house, he loses the property, but Aine violates her protection contract and suffers from insomnia.
Again, this is based off of the series logic that contracts are absolute.
So again, this was pretty dumb. There was no need to bind Aine with a contract, especially ones with conditions that she might not be able to fulfill should she ever become ill or incapacitated.
I get that the main reason for the "plot" is so that he can modify her stats with his orgasm inducing stat modification power, but it's pretty poorly thought out in terms of storyline. Especially for someone who thinks of Aine as her sister.
To refresh:
Cecyls contract doesn't have any real terms. He exchanged her for a rare spell
Ritas contract is to be forever loyal and for their bond to never sever, even into the next life.
Aines contract is to protect the house and its contents
It would have been better if Aine just vowed loyalty to Nagi instead.
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@degenerateafro
I think the biggest problem atm is Aine's contract wasn't really established as contract. It's just like, hey, here's this proposal, ok, CONTRACT. I agree, it would be troubling if Aine was punished for something happening to the house, but in my interpretation, that sounds more like maid work as Letica repeatedly referenced cleaning, especially in terms of "taking care of the house". So while I understand your concern, in my opinion, the way it is phrased is such that Aine's responsibilities is only as a cleaning maid while Nagi's responsibility is to make sure the house and everything connected to it is not damaged.
Disclaimer: first time using spoiler and image on this site, hope I did it well.
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@degenerateafro
Normal wear and tear isn't considered damage in a real-estate contract (at least not in the US FWIW). Damage clauses only prohibit negligence and intentional damage, and I'd assume the same would apply here. If not, even dropping a plate or something on the floor would void the contract.
The same would apply to @Heimdal 's comment, lol. The hymen is meant to be torn, so it shouldn't be considered damage. It's more like peeling the protective plastic film off a new electronic device. I also don't think Leticia would object.
Normal wear and tear isn't considered damage in a real-estate contract (at least not in the US FWIW). Damage clauses only prohibit negligence and intentional damage, and I'd assume the same would apply here. If not, even dropping a plate or something on the floor would void the contract.
The same would apply to @Heimdal 's comment, lol. The hymen is meant to be torn, so it shouldn't be considered damage. It's more like peeling the protective plastic film off a new electronic device. I also don't think Leticia would object.
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@Porg @BlackHoleEyes @BloodySorcerer @Hachi015
"Lol this fucking author can't stop himself from writing convoluted bullshit justifying slave wives" "It makes 0 sense here because it's totally unnecessary" "really bothering me somehow"
I try not to be overly critical about such things [or, to put that another way, I try not to set my expectations overly high], especially in harem manga [where I really don't expect any kind of intellectual depth to the writing or characterizations], but.. yeah, I was just thinking the same thing. That has got to be the most forced excuse to get a slave wife or harem member that I've yet to see in any manga. Like, there's a huge unexplained question of "why can't you have that entire framework but without the slave collar". Is giving yourself into slavery just that normal in this world? Is it "cool"? Is this peer pressure at work? Shame on you, Leticia!
Well, unless I glanced over it, we didn't actually get to see the housekeeper contract. It may be that she has full freedom to break from it as she pleases. So it may mostly be symbolic. Creepily symbolic.
BlackHoleEyes: "They never get it right anyways."
Uhm.. honestly, storylines which "get slavery right" are far harder to deal with than the ones which don't. I mean, the writing and narrative may be more compelling, but..
We typically see slavery as a vehicle for action-adventure hero forming, the protagonist showing off their moral virtues, or as fetish indulgement on the part of the author.
The narratives which touch on realistic slavery have to deal with the sheer crippling dehumanization inherent to it, and that fundamentally affects the tone of the narrative.
You typically don't see realistic slavery outside of psychological abuse/horror narratives, for good reason. And those narratives are.. heavy.
I find it hard to read A Star Reborn: The Queen's Return for that very reason. Not only does the narrative always have to jump back to her trauma (because of course it does) but she herself marginalizes the experience, with the mindset of a habituated victim. It's grim and cringy in the worst way. It's good reading, but at the same time, I'm fine limiting my intake of such extreme storylines to a handful at any point in time. In other words, as contrived as the slavery s in manga such as Isekai de Skill , it's still preferable to every manga involving slavery being realistic in tone.
... though, in fairness, an arguably better alternative would be authors not so readily relying on slavery as a vehicle for such weak plot developments in the first place.
So, to sum up, the issue isn't whether they get it right or not, it's the fact that they force in poorly fitting plot concepts in the first place.
@seekermoc "The hymen is meant to be torn, so it shouldn't be considered damage."
Damage is the reduction of value, function, or condition of an object. If virginity holds any value in that society [as it does in basically every society, fictional or real] then it would most certainly be considered damage. Likewise, there's no way to avoid "intent". On the other hand, it's a compound consideration. It has to be damage which is intentionally inflicted upon the property, not just one component of that consideration. In short, if he's unconcious or drunk enough not to be able to properly express intent and she willingly divests her virginity to him on her own, then he would not have been capable of intentionally inflicting the damage, and thus it would be safe. Likewise, if she simply breaks it through normal physical activity, self-gratification, or other means, it could also be circumvented. So there are ways around it, even without us considering the fact that we're not aware of the full considerations of the housekeeper contract, which may itself have specifications on the matter.
@GerryCerryBery "You can be like family and also cannot have slaves..."
Not according to the laws regarding children in many places in the world [including the US], where they are in many ways considered property of their parents..
Of course, the US allows for emancipation [note the application of a word that is typically only applied to the freeing of an individual from slavery], has child protection laws and services [regardless of how poorly they tend to do], and more. Medieval settings, like most Isekais utilize, tend to have far less legal protections for such things.
..but, I mean, that's a total tangent to your intention, of course. My point is just that society can easily justify slavery as a normal part of relationships, and this setting in particular seems to treat such matters quite cavalierly. ..though even with that in mind, it still feels crazy forced. -.-;
@07mak "That entire contract was for Aine's sake."
Well yes, and no. We can consider it that way if Leticia is an idiot, if Aine wanted to be a slave [which, in fairness, she did seem to], or if there's some side-benefit to slavery that we're unaware of.
But the contract could easily have been set up in a manner that didn't force her to be considered a slave as part of its formation. While there's clear narrative justification for why things turned out the way they did, there's a more fundamental issue in corresponding the logical of how the contracts were implemented against our real world logic. There's only so far "foreign world customs" lets us comfortably extend our expectations without raising an eyebrow and just assuming the author didn't actually have a good reason for taking the approach they did. At that point, we can still suspend our disbelief, but it becomes fully willful, rather than something which is deserved by the narrative.
"Lol this fucking author can't stop himself from writing convoluted bullshit justifying slave wives" "It makes 0 sense here because it's totally unnecessary" "really bothering me somehow"
I try not to be overly critical about such things [or, to put that another way, I try not to set my expectations overly high], especially in harem manga [where I really don't expect any kind of intellectual depth to the writing or characterizations], but.. yeah, I was just thinking the same thing. That has got to be the most forced excuse to get a slave wife or harem member that I've yet to see in any manga. Like, there's a huge unexplained question of "why can't you have that entire framework but without the slave collar". Is giving yourself into slavery just that normal in this world? Is it "cool"? Is this peer pressure at work? Shame on you, Leticia!
Well, unless I glanced over it, we didn't actually get to see the housekeeper contract. It may be that she has full freedom to break from it as she pleases. So it may mostly be symbolic. Creepily symbolic.
BlackHoleEyes: "They never get it right anyways."
Uhm.. honestly, storylines which "get slavery right" are far harder to deal with than the ones which don't. I mean, the writing and narrative may be more compelling, but..
We typically see slavery as a vehicle for action-adventure hero forming, the protagonist showing off their moral virtues, or as fetish indulgement on the part of the author.
The narratives which touch on realistic slavery have to deal with the sheer crippling dehumanization inherent to it, and that fundamentally affects the tone of the narrative.
You typically don't see realistic slavery outside of psychological abuse/horror narratives, for good reason. And those narratives are.. heavy.
I find it hard to read A Star Reborn: The Queen's Return for that very reason. Not only does the narrative always have to jump back to her trauma (because of course it does) but she herself marginalizes the experience, with the mindset of a habituated victim. It's grim and cringy in the worst way. It's good reading, but at the same time, I'm fine limiting my intake of such extreme storylines to a handful at any point in time. In other words, as contrived as the slavery s in manga such as Isekai de Skill , it's still preferable to every manga involving slavery being realistic in tone.
... though, in fairness, an arguably better alternative would be authors not so readily relying on slavery as a vehicle for such weak plot developments in the first place.
So, to sum up, the issue isn't whether they get it right or not, it's the fact that they force in poorly fitting plot concepts in the first place.
@seekermoc "The hymen is meant to be torn, so it shouldn't be considered damage."
Damage is the reduction of value, function, or condition of an object. If virginity holds any value in that society [as it does in basically every society, fictional or real] then it would most certainly be considered damage. Likewise, there's no way to avoid "intent". On the other hand, it's a compound consideration. It has to be damage which is intentionally inflicted upon the property, not just one component of that consideration. In short, if he's unconcious or drunk enough not to be able to properly express intent and she willingly divests her virginity to him on her own, then he would not have been capable of intentionally inflicting the damage, and thus it would be safe. Likewise, if she simply breaks it through normal physical activity, self-gratification, or other means, it could also be circumvented. So there are ways around it, even without us considering the fact that we're not aware of the full considerations of the housekeeper contract, which may itself have specifications on the matter.
@GerryCerryBery "You can be like family and also cannot have slaves..."
Not according to the laws regarding children in many places in the world [including the US], where they are in many ways considered property of their parents..
Of course, the US allows for emancipation [note the application of a word that is typically only applied to the freeing of an individual from slavery], has child protection laws and services [regardless of how poorly they tend to do], and more. Medieval settings, like most Isekais utilize, tend to have far less legal protections for such things.
..but, I mean, that's a total tangent to your intention, of course. My point is just that society can easily justify slavery as a normal part of relationships, and this setting in particular seems to treat such matters quite cavalierly. ..though even with that in mind, it still feels crazy forced. -.-;
@07mak "That entire contract was for Aine's sake."
Well yes, and no. We can consider it that way if Leticia is an idiot, if Aine wanted to be a slave [which, in fairness, she did seem to], or if there's some side-benefit to slavery that we're unaware of.
But the contract could easily have been set up in a manner that didn't force her to be considered a slave as part of its formation. While there's clear narrative justification for why things turned out the way they did, there's a more fundamental issue in corresponding the logical of how the contracts were implemented against our real world logic. There's only so far "foreign world customs" lets us comfortably extend our expectations without raising an eyebrow and just assuming the author didn't actually have a good reason for taking the approach they did. At that point, we can still suspend our disbelief, but it becomes fully willful, rather than something which is deserved by the narrative.
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@07mak In your interpretation there's the small problem that Aine is considered property of the house. So should Nagi void the contract, Aine's possession reverts back to her since she is included with the house. Which might be better than her just dying, but still isn't the best since she becomes Leticia's slave. This series hasn't really gone over nullifying slave contracts so that's an issue as well.
@seekermoc Normal wear and tear and accidental damage are one thing, but there is also "the kids were jumping on the bed and broke it" which isn't technically accidental and isn't normal wear and tear.
@seekermoc Normal wear and tear and accidental damage are one thing, but there is also "the kids were jumping on the bed and broke it" which isn't technically accidental and isn't normal wear and tear.
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Dismissing the hell hole that is this comment session, I gotta say, page 14 with grandpa and naa-kun touching nagi and giving farewell was imo pretty damn cool and well drawn, good job to the artist.
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@Thoughtgap
I mentioned this in a previous comment, but the reason the contract is for Aine's sake is that it forces Nagi to take care of her. I feel it's forced to refer to her as a slave, as the Aine-Letica contract seems more like a standard work contract "Be my maid" with the major problem being their contract was so nonchalant it's hard to understand the specifics of it unlike Nagi's or any other contract in this world. That being said, it connects her to the property which is important for Nagi's contract.
The reason it forces Nagi to take care of Aine is because it states that anything connected to the property is damaged, Nagi's contract is revoked. Damage to furniture is obvious, but damage to living things is different. Living things have feelings. Emotional and mental damage would count as reason to revoke the contract. But the definition of damage wasn't defined in the contract, most contracts define such a thing over several paragraphs. It creates a little leeway such that Aine, and therefore Letica, can decide what counts as damaged to a person. So if Aine is sad, or unsatisfied or just in general just doesn't want to be with Nagi anymore, Nagi loses the property, which forces Nagi to look after Aine and ensure her happiness such that he keeps the property. In addition, as we can only define Aine's contract with how poorly it was worded with Letica, it was only to take care of the house as Letica didn't believe Nagi would take care of it. As such, if Nagi no longer lives there, the contract with Aine is similarly revoked.
@degenerateafro I ended up replying to part of your reply when i was replying to thoughtgap. As how revoked contracts work, we don't know how that works yet, but it makes sense for a contract to end if a clause is evoked such as "Be my security guard until this date" etctetc
I mentioned this in a previous comment, but the reason the contract is for Aine's sake is that it forces Nagi to take care of her. I feel it's forced to refer to her as a slave, as the Aine-Letica contract seems more like a standard work contract "Be my maid" with the major problem being their contract was so nonchalant it's hard to understand the specifics of it unlike Nagi's or any other contract in this world. That being said, it connects her to the property which is important for Nagi's contract.
The reason it forces Nagi to take care of Aine is because it states that anything connected to the property is damaged, Nagi's contract is revoked. Damage to furniture is obvious, but damage to living things is different. Living things have feelings. Emotional and mental damage would count as reason to revoke the contract. But the definition of damage wasn't defined in the contract, most contracts define such a thing over several paragraphs. It creates a little leeway such that Aine, and therefore Letica, can decide what counts as damaged to a person. So if Aine is sad, or unsatisfied or just in general just doesn't want to be with Nagi anymore, Nagi loses the property, which forces Nagi to look after Aine and ensure her happiness such that he keeps the property. In addition, as we can only define Aine's contract with how poorly it was worded with Letica, it was only to take care of the house as Letica didn't believe Nagi would take care of it. As such, if Nagi no longer lives there, the contract with Aine is similarly revoked.
@degenerateafro I ended up replying to part of your reply when i was replying to thoughtgap. As how revoked contracts work, we don't know how that works yet, but it makes sense for a contract to end if a clause is evoked such as "Be my security guard until this date" etctetc
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@07mak I was already aligned up to most of what you just brought up, but your consideration that [Slavery] is a necessary state for the formation of a contract, even when the intent of the contract isn't actually slavery, is an interesting one. It would also align well with the [Slavery is something nonchalantly considered in this world] aspect of things, since [Slavery] wouldn't have a clear negative meaning. I suppose that's as reasonable an explanation as we're going to be able to come up with for justifying the progression of events. That said, I feel like we're likely putting more effort into the underlying lore than the author themself may have.
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