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Hmm, would word explosion be even known before black powder invention?
Isekai Kenkokuki - Vol. 4 Ch. 27.1
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Weak delivery.
Say it like you mean it.
Fed-Kun's army
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@Faryshta
- Are they the longest spears (~6m/20ft) ever used in military history by phalanx? No. Are they of an accurate length (~2m/6ft) for a phalanx spear? Yes.
- Completely agree. It's laughable. Also, you use cavalry against infantry, not other cavalry. Horse vs Human = Dead Human. Simple.
- Both sides are using phalanx, so I don't understand what you mean. They're also using a historically proven counter for typical phalanx vs phalanx combat. I have no issues with the premise.
- Almus soloing 3,000 soldiers is indeed laughable. You're right about the shield (which isn't accurate for one used in phalanx), the shield used by a phalanx was not held in the centre. It was designed to be overlapped with your neighbour's shield, so you really need to stay in formation to get the most defence. While armies have, historically, had mixed shield types, I doubt it would be a good idea to build a phalanx that way. I get that the main characters are given different shields so they stand out to the reader, but it's still annoying.
- While that would likely kill Almus, it would also leave the army exposed. Ferme is talking out of his arse when he claims that killing the general (Almus) wins the war. That's what military ranks are for. Lost your senior officer? Second highest rank takes charge. Armies fight until morale is broken (retreat) or the army is wiped out, not until the king (metaphorically) is captured.
- Highly experienced soldiers will certainly be calmer, but we saw half of these guys getting recruited a few chapters ago and the people from the village have only been in one defensive combat prior. There should be more people shitting themselves. These guys act like they're on a picnic. The most serious person is likely Rosewood, who is probably running on boner power after being behind Ria and her overly erotic charge posture (bottom of page 3).
Example of spears:
My grumblings:
This chapter was just facepalms all around. I did like the, probably unintentional, Asterix & Obelix reference though with the soldiers being sent flying.
I apologise for the wall of text.
(Edit to add spoiler tag to try reduce the sheer size of this abomination of a post. Also, slightly more accurate spear lengths with imperial units instead of metric.)
- Are they the longest spears (~6m/20ft) ever used in military history by phalanx? No. Are they of an accurate length (~2m/6ft) for a phalanx spear? Yes.
- Completely agree. It's laughable. Also, you use cavalry against infantry, not other cavalry. Horse vs Human = Dead Human. Simple.
- Both sides are using phalanx, so I don't understand what you mean. They're also using a historically proven counter for typical phalanx vs phalanx combat. I have no issues with the premise.
- Almus soloing 3,000 soldiers is indeed laughable. You're right about the shield (which isn't accurate for one used in phalanx), the shield used by a phalanx was not held in the centre. It was designed to be overlapped with your neighbour's shield, so you really need to stay in formation to get the most defence. While armies have, historically, had mixed shield types, I doubt it would be a good idea to build a phalanx that way. I get that the main characters are given different shields so they stand out to the reader, but it's still annoying.
- While that would likely kill Almus, it would also leave the army exposed. Ferme is talking out of his arse when he claims that killing the general (Almus) wins the war. That's what military ranks are for. Lost your senior officer? Second highest rank takes charge. Armies fight until morale is broken (retreat) or the army is wiped out, not until the king (metaphorically) is captured.
- Highly experienced soldiers will certainly be calmer, but we saw half of these guys getting recruited a few chapters ago and the people from the village have only been in one defensive combat prior. There should be more people shitting themselves. These guys act like they're on a picnic. The most serious person is likely Rosewood, who is probably running on boner power after being behind Ria and her overly erotic charge posture (bottom of page 3).
Example of spears:
My grumblings:
- Lack of any serious armour. No mail. Not even gambeson.
- Those exploding spears would do jack shit other than confuse and create a temporary smokescreen. Gunpowder needs to be contained to make it lethal and paper is not a good container.
- The spears thrown by Almus and Ron should go significantly further because, as Almus keeps repeating, they have the blessing and are buffed.
- Nobody stays in formation. They're shown in formation, then out of formation, then back in formation. Formation = Life. Break formation and you die. This is, again, something done to look cool. Hollywood does it all the damned time.
- Almus leaves himself wide open to attack at the bottom of page 15. Always cover yourself with your shield. It's what it's there for!
- Almus doesn't shut up about his blessing for whatever reason.
- Almus tries a "normie" provocation. Taunting them by saying "I'm engaged to Tetra"
- Shut up, Almus!
- Orders are given verbally. I'm not familiar enough on war from the time period to comment, but wars are generally loud and orders given via music up until radio. Dancing lessons were a mandatory part of Spartan military training and they were renowned for being excellent dancers; being able to keep a rhythm helps with formation tactics.
- Those exploding spears would do jack shit other than confuse and create a temporary smokescreen. Gunpowder needs to be contained to make it lethal and paper is not a good container.
- The spears thrown by Almus and Ron should go significantly further because, as Almus keeps repeating, they have the blessing and are buffed.
- Nobody stays in formation. They're shown in formation, then out of formation, then back in formation. Formation = Life. Break formation and you die. This is, again, something done to look cool. Hollywood does it all the damned time.
- Almus leaves himself wide open to attack at the bottom of page 15. Always cover yourself with your shield. It's what it's there for!
- Almus doesn't shut up about his blessing for whatever reason.
- Almus tries a "normie" provocation. Taunting them by saying "I'm engaged to Tetra"
- Shut up, Almus!
- Orders are given verbally. I'm not familiar enough on war from the time period to comment, but wars are generally loud and orders given via music up until radio. Dancing lessons were a mandatory part of Spartan military training and they were renowned for being excellent dancers; being able to keep a rhythm helps with formation tactics.
This chapter was just facepalms all around. I did like the, probably unintentional, Asterix & Obelix reference though with the soldiers being sent flying.
I apologise for the wall of text.
(Edit to add spoiler tag to try reduce the sheer size of this abomination of a post. Also, slightly more accurate spear lengths with imperial units instead of metric.)
There's a notable difference between a greek phalanx and a macedonain phalanx.
Greek phalanxes used shorter spears (the dory was ~2.3m long), larger shields (the aspis or hoplon (hence the name hoplite) is ~1m diameter) and a short sword (xiphos ~50cm long). While they started out wearing bronze cuirases (breastplates), they later moved to linothoraxes (made from linen glued in layers with animal fat, enhanced with some bronze scales, see the "example of spears" picture Perim posted).
Macedonian plalanxes used much longer spears (the sarassa is ~5m long), small shields (strapped to their arm, and no suitable for shield walls), a more chopping centric sword (kopis, ~50cm long). This was what Alexander the great used as the core of his armies. The longer spears (and combined arms tactics) was an advantage over the shorter spears of the greek phalanxes. These are also the phalanxes that were displaced by the roman legions, since such long spears are more unweildy outside of phalanx style warfare.
The sizes of the armies really isn't that unusual. Remember we're basically looking at bronze age armies in fights between small city states, not iron age armies and not empires from any ages.
Ferme might be talking out of his arse re: killing Almus, but I do think that killing/capturing Ferme would break the morale of his army. Almus is more of the figurehead, while the other guy is actually in charge (even though Almus and Co. are a huge power advantage).
@Perim
"- Lack of any serious armour. No mail. Not even gambeson." You've got to be kidding? They're using the most important armour you can get, shields and helmets. Except for the heroes, since https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HelmetsAreHardlyHeroic. It's hard to tell either way, but imo most of the troops look like they could be wearing some type of linen armour.
"-explodey spears". True, even a handful of stones packed around the gunpowder could have helped. I would have also tried to save them for when the formations were closer or engaged, to try and break the opponents formation.
"-formations! in/out/in/out!" I just chalked it up to Rule of Cool/Cinematic License or something. I do like that they didn't do the typical Hollywood nonsense of forming up in orderly, defensive formations, then throwing it all away by charging 100m at each and engaging in a stupid grand melee/skirmish.
"-wide open on page 15" True, but then he couldn't shield smash with great Son of the Griffon strength (he's the Son of the Griffon you know!) and throw mooks around like a dynasty warriors knock-off.
"-I'm engaged to Tetra" I initially thought that was mostly directed at Ferme, and that Ferme was aware of Tetra's lineage. I could be wrong though. Time between chapters, and too many isekai's and I tend to lose details of the storylines w/o re-reading the last dozen chapters.
I have no issue with the rectangular shields being used. I don't mind that much that Almus and co are the odd ones out using round shields, between "they're the heroes" and a not-uncommon rule that citizen soldiers provide their own equipment. My biggest issue is really that there was no skirmishers using slings, darts or javelins before the formations collided. Those large shields would stop most of it, but slings and stones are cheap, have good range and hit hard. Getting pelted is going to help unnerve the soldiers, and more than a few will get through to cause damage.
re: Bikini horse girl. Its a girl in a bikini on a horse, shut up and enjoy.
Greek phalanxes used shorter spears (the dory was ~2.3m long), larger shields (the aspis or hoplon (hence the name hoplite) is ~1m diameter) and a short sword (xiphos ~50cm long). While they started out wearing bronze cuirases (breastplates), they later moved to linothoraxes (made from linen glued in layers with animal fat, enhanced with some bronze scales, see the "example of spears" picture Perim posted).
Macedonian plalanxes used much longer spears (the sarassa is ~5m long), small shields (strapped to their arm, and no suitable for shield walls), a more chopping centric sword (kopis, ~50cm long). This was what Alexander the great used as the core of his armies. The longer spears (and combined arms tactics) was an advantage over the shorter spears of the greek phalanxes. These are also the phalanxes that were displaced by the roman legions, since such long spears are more unweildy outside of phalanx style warfare.
The sizes of the armies really isn't that unusual. Remember we're basically looking at bronze age armies in fights between small city states, not iron age armies and not empires from any ages.
Ferme might be talking out of his arse re: killing Almus, but I do think that killing/capturing Ferme would break the morale of his army. Almus is more of the figurehead, while the other guy is actually in charge (even though Almus and Co. are a huge power advantage).
@Perim
"- Lack of any serious armour. No mail. Not even gambeson." You've got to be kidding? They're using the most important armour you can get, shields and helmets. Except for the heroes, since https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HelmetsAreHardlyHeroic. It's hard to tell either way, but imo most of the troops look like they could be wearing some type of linen armour.
"-explodey spears". True, even a handful of stones packed around the gunpowder could have helped. I would have also tried to save them for when the formations were closer or engaged, to try and break the opponents formation.
"-formations! in/out/in/out!" I just chalked it up to Rule of Cool/Cinematic License or something. I do like that they didn't do the typical Hollywood nonsense of forming up in orderly, defensive formations, then throwing it all away by charging 100m at each and engaging in a stupid grand melee/skirmish.
"-wide open on page 15" True, but then he couldn't shield smash with great Son of the Griffon strength (he's the Son of the Griffon you know!) and throw mooks around like a dynasty warriors knock-off.
"-I'm engaged to Tetra" I initially thought that was mostly directed at Ferme, and that Ferme was aware of Tetra's lineage. I could be wrong though. Time between chapters, and too many isekai's and I tend to lose details of the storylines w/o re-reading the last dozen chapters.
I have no issue with the rectangular shields being used. I don't mind that much that Almus and co are the odd ones out using round shields, between "they're the heroes" and a not-uncommon rule that citizen soldiers provide their own equipment. My biggest issue is really that there was no skirmishers using slings, darts or javelins before the formations collided. Those large shields would stop most of it, but slings and stones are cheap, have good range and hit hard. Getting pelted is going to help unnerve the soldiers, and more than a few will get through to cause damage.
re: Bikini horse girl. Its a girl in a bikini on a horse, shut up and enjoy.
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Ferme sees dudes getting thrown bodily into the air, like playing Musou games or like Sauron smashing through the Men of Gondor. I'm pretty sure that's abnormal even by the standards of a world that is capable of voodoo magic and legendary creatures like griffons.
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I miss the less armored and more agile types of footmen in this battle. Javelins, slings or a few ranged combatants. 10 javelins with explosives aren't enough for this type of static formation battle. A few harassers and morale usually takes a dip except for really well trained soldiers, but those drafted in Ferme's army don't look that way.
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*check author on NovelUpdates: 2 ancient civilization Isekais, average ratings 3.9 & 4/5 stars; and possibly 1 medieval isekai with 2/5
*check artist on MangaUpdates: this and 1 high school romance 7.9/10
In the previous battle the enemy died by explosion, including the archer unit that fired 2 volleys. Also scenes of stones throne by hand instead of slings.
In this battle, no archers on either side, and the winner of the cavalry battle is not supporting the infantry battle. Waste of gunpowder, too early for intended surprise and should've been encased in pots for fragmentation damage.
Do editors for both novels and mangas even fact-check when it comes to Isekais?
*check artist on MangaUpdates: this and 1 high school romance 7.9/10
In the previous battle the enemy died by explosion, including the archer unit that fired 2 volleys. Also scenes of stones throne by hand instead of slings.
In this battle, no archers on either side, and the winner of the cavalry battle is not supporting the infantry battle. Waste of gunpowder, too early for intended surprise and should've been encased in pots for fragmentation damage.
Do editors for both novels and mangas even fact-check when it comes to Isekais?
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I'm also kinda bothered by Almus's weapons being apparently indestructible. Like, pretty sure your spear will break long before a person goes flying high up into the air. Might've been interesting to explore "if you have super-strength, how do you actually best fight with it?"
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A bridge too far 2: the wrong way to use cavalry
Sidenote: just use birds and black powder grenades as bombers and target the leader, how is it not the first thing to come to mind??
Sidenote: just use birds and black powder grenades as bombers and target the leader, how is it not the first thing to come to mind??
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@Wildfire_desu
If he can bullshit his way into reinventing gunpowder and making an explosive pila, he can make a simple solid fuel rocket from that. The first chinese rockets were literally just a gunpowder packed bamboo tube with a fuse.
If he can bullshit his way into reinventing gunpowder and making an explosive pila, he can make a simple solid fuel rocket from that. The first chinese rockets were literally just a gunpowder packed bamboo tube with a fuse.
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Total War: Isekai
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I like you @TomTangent , you’re a smart one
