Isekai Kuimetsu no Same - Vol. 1 Ch. 4
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
@fitizen
@stareatmyname
Was there something confusing in what I wrote? I clearly made a distinction between piracy (which I am ok with and do not qualify as theft) and stripping credit (which removes the traces of the work put in by others and is wrong). I do not understand why either of you are acting as though that's the same thing. I have no issues with pirating people's work, so long as the original credit remains. It's one thing to share copies of digital data, its entirely another to try to remove the names of those who put effort into making that data. Only one of these things shows an active effort to prevent people from supporting those who worked on something.
If someone consumes pirated media, nothing is stopping them from still supporting the original creators. All of the information needed for this is still there, and since they have already consumed the media, they can make an informed decision on whether or not it's worthy of their support. If you remove the credit for that work though, hiding info on who made it to make it more difficult for the consumer, or worse yet claiming the work as your own, that is very different that just sharing content freely. It's dishonest to conflate the two.
At no point did I complain about "piracy of translations" but of stripping credit. I found several TL groups that I donate too thanks to sites pirating their work, and I've found dozens of manga and novels that I've purchased thanks to the piracy involved in translating them. If the credit or information leading to those who put in the original effort we're removed, it'd be far harder for me to have supported those efforts. Stripping credit is wrong, and completely separate from piracy. Hell, many providers of pirated content actively ask people to support official releases and goods and guide them to the channels through which to do so. It should be obvious that these are separate things.
@stareatmyname
Was there something confusing in what I wrote? I clearly made a distinction between piracy (which I am ok with and do not qualify as theft) and stripping credit (which removes the traces of the work put in by others and is wrong). I do not understand why either of you are acting as though that's the same thing. I have no issues with pirating people's work, so long as the original credit remains. It's one thing to share copies of digital data, its entirely another to try to remove the names of those who put effort into making that data. Only one of these things shows an active effort to prevent people from supporting those who worked on something.
If someone consumes pirated media, nothing is stopping them from still supporting the original creators. All of the information needed for this is still there, and since they have already consumed the media, they can make an informed decision on whether or not it's worthy of their support. If you remove the credit for that work though, hiding info on who made it to make it more difficult for the consumer, or worse yet claiming the work as your own, that is very different that just sharing content freely. It's dishonest to conflate the two.
At no point did I complain about "piracy of translations" but of stripping credit. I found several TL groups that I donate too thanks to sites pirating their work, and I've found dozens of manga and novels that I've purchased thanks to the piracy involved in translating them. If the credit or information leading to those who put in the original effort we're removed, it'd be far harder for me to have supported those efforts. Stripping credit is wrong, and completely separate from piracy. Hell, many providers of pirated content actively ask people to support official releases and goods and guide them to the channels through which to do so. It should be obvious that these are separate things.
MD@Home
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- Aug 31, 2019
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@errorbit you tried to demonstrate the difference between ripping off a digital product and stripping credit without bringing in the issue of theft, then used lost profits as part of your argument. Getting this out of the way I don't think anyone would ever tolerate someone actually stripping the author's own credit, we're talking about credit pages of scanlators here. And by some measures what they do certainly does help the author out, if you excluded lost opportunity costs in other scenarios. You claimed piracy is not theft because you believe intellectual property is not true property in the sense that it can be "divested", then implied that stripping credit is theft despite the only thing that can even remotely be considered stolen here can not be considered property under your definition. Maybe that's not what you implied who knows, but this was the whole point of the original post and the post you initially replied to, that considering "credit stripping" theft is ridiculous.
@stareatmyname
My issue with stripping credit is that obfuscates the path toward supporting the translators or original creators, harming the ability of people who desire to do so. The idea that it harms the TL's ability to make money is far less important as don't believe in them or anyone else being owed money. Their profits mean next to nothing in the face of the main interest: which is the expression of consumer desire. I am against anything that stifles or obfuscates this, which stripping credit does and piracy doesn't. Piracy is a net positive, as it ensures that purchasing decisions are informed and the wrong message is never sent. Stripping credit has no positives and acts solely as an obstruction. Theft and profit are not a part of this issue. While profits are somewhat related, its not the consumer's problem if the other end can't profit off of how the consumer values their product or service.
I've never cared about lost profits, but I think I see what part of my posts is getting lost here. Supporting original creators is, to me, a personal choice for the purpose of expressing a desire to see more of what they create. Same goes in this case for the translators. I don't believe in "lost profits" because you cannot lose what you never had. People are not entitled to the money of others.
I've also never considered any of the things discussed to be theft, because none of them include removing property from another, which is required for something to be theft. I have not been calling stripping credit theft, and the only time I've even entertained the notion of theft was when I said that piracy and theft shouldn't have been conflated by that other guy. Theft has never been my focus, but I think that since you and the other seem to be focused on it, you are misunderstanding what I'm saying.
My issue with stripping credit is that obfuscates the path toward supporting the translators or original creators, harming the ability of people who desire to do so. The idea that it harms the TL's ability to make money is far less important as don't believe in them or anyone else being owed money. Their profits mean next to nothing in the face of the main interest: which is the expression of consumer desire. I am against anything that stifles or obfuscates this, which stripping credit does and piracy doesn't. Piracy is a net positive, as it ensures that purchasing decisions are informed and the wrong message is never sent. Stripping credit has no positives and acts solely as an obstruction. Theft and profit are not a part of this issue. While profits are somewhat related, its not the consumer's problem if the other end can't profit off of how the consumer values their product or service.
Dex-chan lover
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I almost wish this had the Tragedy tag, just for how awful Shiromi's life is. She's too pure and innocent for such an awful world filled with legitimately terrible and cruel, selfish people.
Even the freaking fairies are shooting up and snorting drugs, what the hell? Where do you even find a cigar/cannagar(?) that small? Who the heck supports their drug industry?
Edit: Whoops, nevermind, it DOES have the Tragedy tag, and I know it's for Shiromi. Same-kun killing peopleassholes is just Comedy.
Even the freaking fairies are shooting up and snorting drugs, what the hell? Where do you even find a cigar/cannagar(?) that small? Who the heck supports their drug industry?
Edit: Whoops, nevermind, it DOES have the Tragedy tag, and I know it's for Shiromi. Same-kun killing people
Dex-chan lover
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- Dec 29, 2018
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bitter virgin shark and fairies getting high on pixie dust
based
based
Dex-chan lover
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- Aug 2, 2020
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@Doopington
Don't feel bad, I too was on that feels trip till I checked tags. We are in for a roller-coaster of death and hilarious tragedy.
Don't feel bad, I too was on that feels trip till I checked tags. We are in for a roller-coaster of death and hilarious tragedy.
Thats said, if she does have some kind of happy ending by the end of all this... I think that would be an even more tragic ending now lol
"it's a place where we used to live in harmony" aka: getting high and shooting up
not sure if it was in earlier chapters, but this one has the jaws theme on pg26 right where the 2 demons are getting it on "de-den, de-den, de-den", then close up of the eyeball "den den den den den den "
not sure if it was in earlier chapters, but this one has the jaws theme on pg26 right where the 2 demons are getting it on "de-den, de-den, de-den", then close up of the eyeball "den den den den den den "
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- Dec 16, 2018
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Damn, fairies be shootin up heroin.
Dex-chan lover
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Oh, that demon bitch is so dead.
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