Jaryuu Tensei - Vol. 4 Ch. 27

[Mizudoriko]

@Baysiri

"Such bad writing when a character "happens" to get something in the middle of a fight that's out of their control. This author is garbage."

You know, if you don't like it, you can just not read it. There's no reason to trash the author for it too. Drawing these takes hours of effort and I know that from personal experience in drawing. It is a commonly held belief in the writing community that good fight scenes are difficult to portray, also from personal experience. You can say that it is a product of my own shortcomings, and I will accept that, but it is also something I have discussed with and heard from other writers as well. As for a character getting power during a fight, that's literally every single fantasy fight ever. The author is the one writing, they write in a power. If you want to look at Harry Potter, Harry just so happens to disintegrate Quirrell. The only explanation we get is a mother's love. It is literally a trope for a character to awaken their power in the middle of a fight and people still enjoy it, just look at the entire Dragon Ball series. Perhaps you prefer more defined abilities and skill sets, that's completely fine. Just don't put down someone's work that they clearly put time and effort into and move on.

 

[jonsmth]

@Baysiri
That's usually called an ass pull, but this one is a bit different in that we already know that the main character is a dragon. Also, him getting his power back in this manner had some precedent. It had happened before and it's happening again in the exact same way. He literally "powers up" when he fights other dragons. I won't blame you though for forgetting that detail since chapters come out slow.

What happened this chapter

Spoiler

What happened in an earlier chapter

Spoiler

 

[bk3k]

@Baysiri
Putting aside that you are annoying - really, really annoying - you are somehow missing something that should be really obvious. Sure he's powering up during the fight (which is standard), but it isn't like he needed the powerup to win the fight. Kinda makes your attempt at a critique mostly null and entirely pointless. How sad...

Yes being able to effectively protect others around is another matter. but it isn't like we're invested in some mob characters who might die in the fight anyhow. He'd clearly have won either way, and without all that much effort. So you can throw around "deus ex machina" (and other things you heard other people say) in an attempt to impress random internet strangers, but I think you should learn what those things actually are first. Then you should figure out if they actually apply.

Now if you have some sort of dream to be a professional critic someday... I'm afraid you have a very long road ahead of you. Good luck with that!

edit: You also missed that the enemy he beat was directly powered up by (a) God out of nowhere. LOL.

 

[Hell_Satan]

@FgoSegul religion is always the excuse to be a scumbag look at history heck look at terrorist.

 

[ProfileGuy]

Is he like acnologia from fairy tail?

 

[Baysiri]

@Mizudoriko "You know, if you don't like it, you can just not read it. There's no reason to trash the author for it too."
The same could be said for every single piece of entertainment that exists in the world. If nobody ever gave their opinion on how good movies were, everyone would go into them blind, all the time. It's a completely nonsensical argument that you're trying to make. Poorly written works should be criticized for what they are.

@jonsmth I have already stated that my argument has nothing to do with it not being explained how it happened. What I'm pointing out, is the fact that as he was about to be blasted, the author chose to give him a power up at that very second. Going off of his facial expression beforehand and the fact that he says "they decided to come back at a pretty good time", it's clear that it's a poorly written plot device that just happened to happen at the very moment when MC needed it. Aka, garbage writing from the author.


@bk3k Clearly you're stupid, because as it's shown on page 19, 20, and 21, that he needed his wings to pop up for him to block that blast. It's shown by his facial expressions and dialogue he says before and after it happens. That scene is what I have been talking about this entire time. I don't care about what else happened in the chapter.

 

[AMicrowave]

how far behind are lh considering the 5 month gap between the previous chapter and the one before it?

 

[SparkShadow]

Y’all(don’t ask why) let’s just ignore the stubborn person. He just wants to win not acknowledging that he was wrong. This is normal for most people me included so let’s just stop.

He’s wrong though(lol)

 

[bk3k]

@Baysiri

Clearly you're stupid, because as it's shown on page 19, 20, and 21, that he needed his wings to pop up for him to block that blast. It's shown by his facial expressions and dialogue he says before and after it happens. That scene is what I have been talking about this entire time. I don't care about what else happened in the chapter.

Clearly you are stupid if you think he had to stand in the path of a blast in the first place. The only purpose to blocking it was protecting those mob characters. He'd have endured it without the wings (though he could have easily avoided) but not been able to completely shield the mob characters. He's far more powerful than his enemy before the upgrade anyhow. As far as "upgrades" go, that was originally his to start with.

How sad that you need such obvious things explained to you... again. If you cannot grasp even the most obvious, what can you do?

@SparkShadow

Y’all(don’t ask why) let’s just ignore the stubborn person. He just wants to win not acknowledging that he was wrong. This is normal for most people me included so let’s just stop.

He’s wrong though(lol)

Sure we could ignore them. But with an ego so far outclassing their actual abilities, it is entertaining to tear them down. Granted it would be more entertaining if it wasn't so easy. Much like the MC's fight against a "pope" turned dragon, there isn't any real challenge to it. But watching them flail about makes up for it somewhat.

 

[Baysiri]

@bk3k Hey retard, you just agreed that he needed the wings in that specific scene to accomplish what he needed to do, which was blocking the attack for the mob characters. My argument has been that the author gives him power ups based on when he needs them in the plot. Therefore you just conceded that my argument is correct. I was never arguing that he needed the power up to win. You're actually stupid as hell for conceding to my argument thinking that you were giving a counterargument to something I never said. Great job, moron.

@SparkShadow If I'm wrong, give your counterargument as to why I'm wrong. Otherwise, sit down.

 

[conscript117]

Dunno why everyone is so gung-ho about him sticking out his wings...he is not getting power ups, he got a debuff when transformed into human, I hope that can help ..... people understand, I won't try to explain cuz, it should be plain obvious as this is nothing new.

 

[jonsmth]

@Baysiri
You could also say that he knew he was going to get his powerup specifically on his back, since he can already feel it from that specific part on his body. Rather than getting the powerup the moment he needed it, he already had it before that moment. The last time was his arms, and now it was his back. I'd think that he even acted on that knowledge, but then he later says, "they decided to come back at a pretty good time", as you've mentioned. Perhaps the timing and this line was more for dramatic effect? Well, he isn't winking in that page; he hasn't been winking at all in the recent chapters though. The target demographic of this manga is "shounen", so I suppose it was trying to make the whole powerup event look cool.

It's not deus ex machina. There's a precedent and some consistence (it was blood the last time rather than magic power). Rather than a problem with the plot, it's more of how it was executed/presented. It seemed to me that it was intentionally made to look like a typical shounen manga ass pull.

 

[Baysiri]

@jonsmth You can't present an argument for him knowing that he would get his wings, based on his facial expression before he was hit by the blast and the dialogue he gives afterwards. Assuming otherwise would be your headcanon on what the character was thinking at the time, going against what was actually shown.

deus ex machina
noun
an unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation, especially as a contrived plot device in a play or novel.

Literally describes the scene that happened. He gains power out of his control for a hopeless situation.

 

[bk3k]

@Baysiri

Hey retard, you just agreed that he needed the wings in that specific scene to accomplish what he needed to do, which was blocking the attack for the mob characters. My argument has been that the author gives him power ups based on when he needs them in the plot. Therefore you just conceded that my argument is correct.

LOL no. You're trying so desperately to save face... but you can't.

I was never arguing that he needed the power up to win. You're actually stupid as hell for conceding to my argument thinking that you were giving a counterargument to something I never said. Great job, moron.

These are your words -

that he needed his wings to pop up for him to block that blast

For the 3rd time in one thread I need to (re)explain the obvious... he didn't actually need to save the mob characters. He merely wanted to. Not much would change in the story if he didn't.
You did just say this -

He gains power out of his control for a hopeless situation.

Does a "hopeless situation" really describe only saving mob characters we'll all forget next chapter? Or does it actually describe a fight he can't win? You seem to be wavering here, but desperately wanting to be right. You just told me you weren't really referring to the fight when you first commented (yeah right). So you're lying but you can't commit to the lie when responding to others.

Your entire stupid argument is premised upon him NEEDING those wings, and in particular needing them here/now. He didn't. Thus far (or rather since he initially lost access to them) the wings have only been useful in doing something entirely optional which ultimately doesn't matter. Something that was never a need. It wouldn't have strongly affected him if he had them or not at least not this chapter. The mob characters would be dead, but we'd all forget them next chapter at the latest anyhow. Since he saved them instead... we'll still all forget about them next chapter at the latest. They're mere mob characters. So it changes nothing important. He didn't need the wings because he didn't need to block the blast. Maybe the wings are important next chapter or the one after that? They're sure not vital here and now. The entire premise of your so called argument is false. The whole thing is worthless.

You can imagine I'm conceding something or another if that makes you feel better, though that's merely your imagination. So cope harder while we laugh at you more. So sad... LOL

 

[jonsmth]

@Baysiri

for him knowing that he would get his wings

It didn't have to be his wings - just any part of his original body is practically invulnerable (see ch2). If he was planning to soak up the beam not knowing when he would regain his back/wings/tail, he could have probably put his hand out like what he did against the cyclops (ch9.1).

Assuming otherwise would be your headcanon on what the character was thinking at the time, going against what was actually shown.

I'll concede on this point since we only have the adaptation to look at. It's "Winking Dragon, the Manga" and I would think that the artist and the editor would have also taken some creative liberties in the interpretation of the text too. I also went back a few more chapters and found that he regained his claws much earlier in a very mundane moment (ch4, no other dragons, not a stressful event).

Literally describes the scene that happened. He gains power out of his control for a hopeless situation.

The power wasn't unexpected. This is the key point. It had always been there. It didn't seem to me to be a hopeless situation either.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AssPull
Here's a similar trope term we could throw out here.

 

[Baysiri]

@bk3k Oh that's cute, you're back-peddling now. Lets see how you try to back-peddle from your previous statements.

LOL no. You're trying so desperately to save face... but you can't.
And yet you didn't give a counterargument as to how you didn't agree with me in your prior post. You just said no and moved on. 10/10 logic from a dunce.

These are your words - that he needed his wings to pop up for him to block that blast
Yes, those are my words. How exactly do those words imply that I was stating he needed "the power up to win". Yet another flat argument. You're doing so well so far.

Does a "hopeless situation" really describe only saving mob characters we'll all forget next chapter?
Yes, genius. You want me to spell it out for you? The MC's desire is to save the random mob characters. It doesn't fucking matter how you view them. The MC wants to do it, therefore it's a hopeless situation for the MC, as they can't accomplish their objective without the author giving them something that they don't have. Was that dumbed down enough for you, or do I have to make it even dumber?

Your whole entire next paragraph is a nonsensical rant about how he didn't need the wings to survive, how "we" would forget the mob characters next chapter as if that's relevant in anyway, and so on. Once again, you prove to me that your IQ is truly in the negatives. I'll try to spell it out for you once again so you can understand it with your peanut sized brain: the MC's objective was saving those mob characters. Based on MC's facial expression, his dire need to move to them beforehand, and the dialogue afterwards, he couldn't have accomplished what he needed to do without the author giving him something he didn't have. This would classify it as a hopeless situation for the MC. He took the initiative to move from where he was, to go try and save the mob characters. It doesn't matter how you view the mob characters. It doesn't matter if you think he didn't need them. Both of your claims here go against what was shown for the MC's objective, and the necessary ability needed to accomplish that objective. For the MC, his objective would have failed if the author didn't save him. Therefore, nothing you have said is a counterargument for what I have said.

Keep trying, clown. You keep failing, but it's amusing seeing your peanut brain attempt at giving an argument.



@jonsmth
It didn't have to be his wings
So you're assuming that if his wings didn't pop out, that he would have used another body part to block them? Not only is that headcanon of you assuming what the MC would have done, but it also contradicts what was shown by his facial expression before the blast and the dialogue he gives afterwards.

The power wasn't unexpected. This is the key point. It had always been there. It didn't seem to me to be a hopeless situation either.
Its timing was unexpected for the MC. MC had no control over when it would come out. And it was a hopeless situation for the MC in relation to accomplishing his objective, which would be what he moved in front of the blast for in the first place.

 

[jonsmth]

@Baysiri

So you're assuming that if his wings didn't pop out, that he would have used another body part to block them?

I'm suggesting that if he was planning to block that beam, he would have used his hand like he normally would. He knows he can use his claws. But he didn't.
This might mean that he knew he can block with his back.

However, looking at those pages again, it seems to me now that it could also mean that he didn't have enough time to jump away or put out his hand.
While I think we can dismiss his "dialogue" afterwards as him trying to be cool (he says those lines out loud), the manga artist does try to keep his facial expressions easy to read and consistent. So you might be right about this.

Also, please don't assume I have any "headcanon" in this. I don't trust the fidelity of adaptations, so I feel that we're free to speculate until we have a novel reader prove/debunk any of our claims. You were relying on facial expressions on those few pages as your proof, and I felt that alone wouldn't have been enough; they are after all, also an interpretation of the scene by the artist. Since we're arguing about writing/plot, I think the original work is relevant in this discussion, but if you think otherwise, then you have my opinion of adaptations now and I'm not about to defend any inconsistencies of this one.

And it was a hopeless situation for the MC in relation to accomplishing his objective, which would be what he moved in front of the blast for in the first place.

Yeah, I suppose if we're only framing the exact situation of the breath blast and not the entire fight, and he wasn't actually planning to block at all, then it is a hopeless situation.

 

[Baysiri]

@jonsmth
I don't trust the fidelity of adaptations, so I feel that we're free to speculate until we have a novel reader prove/debunk any of our claims.
This is its own continuity separate from whatever novel it's being adapted from. We are having a debate based on what was shown here, not what could be added to it based on what was written in its source material. They're two different forms of canon. Mangas are never exactly the same as the source material they're taken from.

 

[Mizudoriko]

Wow, I made a response that I thought was pretty tame and inoffensive sharing my opinion and I'm called nonsensical. Like chill, it's a fictional work. I believe everyone should share their opinions, but all that seems to be happening is people insulting those who are continuing the discussion. Nothing is wrong with debating, but respecting the people who comment is essential, there is no need to call others idiots or synonyms of that same word. There is no progression in going around in circles with the same argument. Yes, it is perfectly alright to share what you think about a work and criticize it. You called it bad writing. That is acceptable. You gave it a reason, that is also acceptable. What isn't is that you called the author garbage. There are almost unlimited ways that you can word it and be constructive instead of writing off an author as trash. There is absolutely no room for growth and does nothing to help the author telling them they are garbage.

 

[manny16]

Sooooo mc is basically a Dragonborn from Skyrim now interesting maybe he can whip out some shouts or something