Kaisha to Shiseikatsu: On to Off - Ch. 25 - The Hanku Family

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I think there's a difference between making egg jokes about real people who don't identify as trans (which is rude, ignores their stated identity) versus making similar jokes retrospectively about someone who later came out as trans.

No one can see the future, so maybe everyone should stop making assumptions about anyone's gender identity.

Maybe Amata will come out as trans at some point, but as far as we know, in the context of the manga, up until now, he's a man inside.

Maybe he'll come out as trans. Or maybe not. Or maybe it's not the point of this manga at all. It's just a relationship between two people who are wearing different clothes than when they're at work and who bond over it.

The romance is slowly starting to take shape and that's what's interesting. Not who identifies as what.
 
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The romance is slowly starting to take shape and that's what's interesting. Not who identifies as what.
Tbf both things can be interesting. There can be a lot of reasons people like a series, no reason to narrow it to just one thing.

A big part of this manga IS still them both being gender non confirming in what they wear and how they present/act (or more, whatever, who knows) and finding that connection with each other.

Otherwise...it would just be a pretty typical office workers with slow burn romance. Which isnt bad per se but still.
 
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So your take is that American puritans are pushing femboys into transitioning.... What universe do you live in?

Here back on earth most puritans (along with most other denominations of Christianity) equally despise femboys and trans women, for the sema exact reasons: they view gender as a strict binary defined by "biology" (specifically whatever they're convinced biology means that week), where neither group fits in.

Moreover puritans turned trans advocates aren't a thing, the trans movement can be cleanly traced back to the queer liberation movements of the 70s-80s. Are there puritans who support trans liberation? I'm sure there are. Claiming that specifically american puritan ideology informs current day trans advocacy is charitably misinformed, though I'd more accurately describe it as demented.
My take is that american "progressive ideas" still grew out of their sexually represseed puritanism and can only express themselves within the confines of that ideology.
Americans used to be homophobic, now they act like they have changed but their takes on anything they deem "queer" are still within the confines of the box of puritan ideas.
Instead of "dudes can look feminine" you now got soccer moms castrating their 7 year old boys for looking at barbie dolls, before they can even develop a proper sense of self and identity.

These aren't really progressive ideas at all, it's just puritanism that changed the sides.
 
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My take is that american "progressive ideas" still grew out of their sexually represseed puritanism and can only express themselves within the confines of that ideology.
Americans used to be homophobic, now they act like they have changed but their takes on anything they deem "queer" are still within the confines of the box of puritan ideas.
Instead of "dudes can look feminine" you now got soccer moms castrating their 7 year old boys for looking at barbie dolls, before they can even develop a proper sense of self and identity.

These aren't really progressive ideas at all, it's just puritanism that changed the sides.
HEY WAIT YOURE THE GUY OBSESSED WITH CALLING PEOPLE CUCKS AND MAKING WEIRD COMMENTS ABOUT JAPAN BEING "BETTER OFF" FOR HAVING NO IMMIGRATION. I REMEMBER YOU.
 
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My take is that american "progressive ideas" still grew out of their sexually represseed puritanism and can only express themselves within the confines of that ideology.
Americans used to be homophobic, now they act like they have changed but their takes on anything they deem "queer" are still within the confines of the box of puritan ideas.
Instead of "dudes can look feminine" you now got soccer moms castrating their 7 year old boys for looking at barbie dolls, before they can even develop a proper sense of self and identity.

These aren't really progressive ideas at all, it's just puritanism that changed the sides.
JFC you are just taking every right wing talking point and trying to dress it up as the real progressive.

Hi, I'm an American femboy. People are fine with that. While I know plenty of trans people who have offered knowledge in case I want to explore that path, everything has always been left up to me. No one has said my identity is illegitimate.

And even if I was trans, nobody would tell me I need an orchiectomy to be valid. People decide for themselves if that's what they want. I know trans girls who haven't had any surgery, some who got orchi, some who got full bottom surgery. None of them are more valid than another and nobody says so.

You have built the most absurd strawman. I can't imagine you're saying anything in good faith here.

Suffice to say your "take" is hot as balls (the balls I still have).
 
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now got soccer moms castrating their 7 year old boys
This literally doesnt happen. At all.

No one that young gets surgery like that. At all.

I cant understand how people think this, same as the fucked up "teachers make kids pee in a catbox" nonsense from years ago. It doesnt happen.
 
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JFC you are just taking every right wing talking point and trying to dress it up as the real progressive.
I reject the notion that sexual orientation or outward feminity or masculinity have anything to do with biological sex. Iran forcibly transitions gay men because men sucking cock is a sin to them so they must be women according to them. Americans still largely operate on the same level of logic.
I'm saying the kneejerk reaction that every guy who likes to dress up for whatever reason is a woman is deeply regressive, similarly to saying everyone who likes to suck a cock here and there must be a woman.
A lot of Americans will immediately snap to calling every crossdresser gay or straight transgender, which just isn't the reality of things, that's an entirely different identity.
 
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I reject the notion that sexual orientation or outward feminity or masculinity have anything to do with biological sex. Iran forcibly transitions gay men because men sucking cock is a sin to them so they must be women according to them. Americans still largely operate on the same level of logic.
Ah, yes. The progressive stronghold. Iran.

Did you miss the part where America is going to strip medical centers that provide puberty blockers to trans teens of their funding? And make it a crime to provide trans medical care at all?
I'm saying the kneejerk reaction that every guy who likes to dress up for whatever reason is a woman is deeply regressive, similarly to saying everyone who likes to suck a cock here and there must be a woman.

A lot of Americans will immediately snap to calling every crossdresser gay or straight transgender, which just isn't the reality of things, that's an entirely different identity.
And yes, some men are gay, some men are feminine, some men like to cross dress and that doesn't make them trans.

But Amata isn't a gay man, or even a bi or straight man. He's a fictional character. He's a fictional character written in the context of a deeply conservative culture and that context matters to what gender identity the mangaka can give him, the ideas the mangaka can use him to express. Not to mention that authorial intent isn't the end-all, be-all of interpretation. Maybe if we knew that Amata could self-identify as a transgender woman if that was more accurate to the experience the author was trying to portray, we would be able to take the work at its word. But we can't trust that, because of people like you.

And if you don't understand why I'm differentiating between Real People and fictional characters, I'm afraid you're going to have to take that up with your middle school lit teacher.
 
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Ah, yes. The progressive stronghold. Iran.
You really need to work on your reading comprehension. I'm saying the baseline stance of US progressives is still trapped firmly inside their regressive puritan cultural roots, similar to the ultra regressive persian theocracy.
American progressivism is still navigating within the confines of regressive puritan morality. It's like a fish that can't see the water, because he's swimming in it.
American progressives aren't truely progressives because they just taken the opposite side of regressives within the puritan morality box, they never made an attempt to go beyond the box. That's why instead of liberating people from gender and sex norms things have become even more clamped down, as evident by this thread where people are foaming at the mouth at my suggestion that american progressives aren't truely progressive at all with their insistence on binary understanding of sex and gender.
 
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I'm saying the kneejerk reaction that every guy who likes to dress up for whatever reason is a woman is deeply regressive,
And what I'm saying is that's not what actually happens. You are pretending it is, but it isn't. I live that life. I'm telling you it isn't like what you say it is.

If it were what happened then I would agree with you that it's a problem. But it isn't. That's why I called your argument a strawman, which it is. You are arguing against a position that isn't what is actually held.

Now, I'm not saying that absolutely no one thinks that way. I'm just saying it isn't typical and doesn't reflect "American society" in general. Yet you keep trying to insist it does. That makes you disingenuous.
 
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I swear just keeps getting prettier every chapter.

I kinda want to see them comparing daily routines. Kind of the reverse of "normative" couples where the guy washes his face (optional) vs the girl doing skincare. And we would have Aki just waking up and Amata getting slightly embarrassed about being in the middle of putting on makeup. Maybe next chapter? tokes hopium
 
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Fiiiiiiiiiiiiine, looks like I owe my partner money after my bad gamble. :rolleyes:

With their oldest child dressing (and especially arriving) masc and punk, I'm not surprised they had no problem with Amata, though it was pretty funny the mom forgot for a moment.
 

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