Kasane to Subaru - Vol. 5 Ch. 41

[Andigo]

Jesus Christ that one guy in the comments is fucking unhinged and illiterate.

Now back to the manga itself, chaser mention jumpscare LMAO.

I have to say, I'm unsure how to feel about how the diction in this chapter is used. It still kinda smacks of, "But hey I'm not trans! Those slurs don't apply to me!" Is this story to be perceived through a trans narrative? I mean, I do perceive it through a trans narrative, but I know there are lots of people here who just say it's crossdressing, in which case the throwing around of those slurs is... realistic, but also cheapening in a way?

My thoughts aren't terribly coherent. Anyways I think Subaru should start taking estrogen.

Gender-affirming narratives like this one share a wider cultural sphere with clearly trans content, but people are so unique that it's not clear (and usually irrelevant) if someone is an egg. Gender euphoria is relatively common, especially in crossdressing and drag communities. Bigots point at superficial or exagerrated traits, that's wholly realistic for them to generalize and make people self conscious about identifiers the bigots don't actually understand.

Since someone's ideal healthy endocrine levels are difficult to figure I wouldn't say Subaru's feminity means he's wired for estrogen. I wouldn't be surprised, not at all, and it's a good hypothetical, but I'd say no in the scenario. Subaru's emotional and bodytype/neurological dysphoria aren't notable for a crossdresser. The cultural issue is acceptance to have average dates, not Subaru. Subaru is comfortable and happy enough on T.

For maximum confusion, gender word choice also doesn't translate perfectly across cultures and time periods. And if changing bodies was seamless with magic or transhumanism I doubt Subaru would have an issue transitioning, it may even be an improvement, but that's a huge chunk of people and not trans by our modern definition. Explode the unscientific binaries into loose guidlines and it all gets incoherent.

Why? Can't a guy like crossdressing and still feel secure in his sexuality? Why do you want him to have gender dysphoria?

The point was it's relatable to trans perspectives. There's no wanting the character to suffer, just a lighthearted remark. Yeesh. It should be obvious that sexuality is irrelevant to gender dysphoria. No need to get insecure.

 

[outinthegardener]

I have to say, I'm unsure how to feel about how the diction in this chapter is used. It still kinda smacks of, "But hey I'm not trans! Those slurs don't apply to me!" Is this story to be perceived through a trans narrative? I mean, I do perceive it through a trans narrative, but I know there are lots of people here who just say it's crossdressing, in which case the throwing around of those slurs is... realistic, but also cheapening in a way?

My thoughts aren't terribly coherent. Anyways I think Subaru should start taking estrogen.

I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think Subaru is trans. Two things are going on here.

One, his brother has not made any attempt to figure out why someone would crossdress, and he's a bully, so he's trying to force him to conform by using slurs. He can't understand crossdressing outside his own conception. In his eyes anyone who crossdresses must be gay, or a pervert, or a tranny. Author wants to show how it feels to present different than culturally normal.

Two, is that there are reasons to crossdress outside of wanting to transition; reacting against his toxic masculine family, liking the wider range of expression of women's clothes, etc. Subaru hasn't expressed a desire to be a woman sexually, but he has expressed a preference for women's fashion symbols and behavioral symbols. That seems different than transexual.

 

[Midoriha]

Jesus Christ that one guy in the comments is fucking unhinged and illiterate.

Most ironic post in the thread considering what you just wrote lol.

 

[Thrembs]

Jesus Christ that one guy in the comments is fucking unhinged and illiterate.

Now back to the manga itself, chaser mention jumpscare LMAO.

I have to say, I'm unsure how to feel about how the diction in this chapter is used. It still kinda smacks of, "But hey I'm not trans! Those slurs don't apply to me!" Is this story to be perceived through a trans narrative? I mean, I do perceive it through a trans narrative, but I know there are lots of people here who just say it's crossdressing, in which case the throwing around of those slurs is... realistic, but also cheapening in a way?

My thoughts aren't terribly coherent. Anyways I think Subaru should start taking estrogen.

Ok, when a character or person says their gender, all I can reasonably do is believe them, barring other reasonable evidence.
He comes off as effeminate and soft.

There are parallels, but presentation ≠ gender.
I’ve encountered a number of trans femboys.
AFAB men who present femme. A number on testosterone and not hiding it. Is that last bit relevant? I am still a bit high.

Point is that “relatable” doesn’t mean “the same”.

I am frustrated with the need for many other trans people projecting their head canon out into the world whenever something is gendery or clothing related.
Load all the funpowder you want into your head cannon. I am all about that. Just remember to call it that.

There are a number of stories that I wished were trans, and were very important to me growing up. What I didn’t do was say “Just One of The Guys” or the Shakespeare play on which it is based IS a trans story. It takes changing one scene to make it that, and it’s better that way, imo. But it’s not how it is.

Everything from the 80s and 90s is ”but they desisted and entered a cishet relationship the end”.
That’s ass, and I had to head canon a lot of stuff to be slightly less traumatised as a kid.

It’s fan fiction in my brain.

 

[Thrembs]

I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think Subaru is trans. Two things are going on here.

One, his brother has not made any attempt to figure out why someone would crossdress, and he's a bully, so he's trying to force him to conform by using slurs. He can't understand crossdressing outside his own conception. In his eyes anyone who crossdresses must be gay, or a pervert, or a tranny. Author wants to show how it feels to present different than culturally normal.

Two, is that there are reasons to crossdress outside of wanting to transition; reacting against his toxic masculine family, liking the wider range of expression of women's clothes, etc. Subaru hasn't expressed a desire to be a woman sexually, but he has expressed a preference for women's fashion symbols and behavioral symbols. That seems different than transexual.

Based on what you say here, you’re cis, and please don’t say t****y. I am trans and hate saying it.

I’m not mad. I’m just letting you know.

I agree with you.

(also “transsexual” is considered deprecated in much of the English-speaking world. Not all. Not telling to say that one or not. Just letting you know some people might angst. Easiest to use “trans” by itself. No one will care.)

 

[Thrembs]

Jesus Christ that one guy in the comments is fucking unhinged and illiterate.

Now back to the manga itself, chaser mention jumpscare LMAO.

I have to say, I'm unsure how to feel about how the diction in this chapter is used. It still kinda smacks of, "But hey I'm not trans! Those slurs don't apply to me!" Is this story to be perceived through a trans narrative? I mean, I do perceive it through a trans narrative, but I know there are lots of people here who just say it's crossdressing, in which case the throwing around of those slurs is... realistic, but also cheapening in a way?

My thoughts aren't terribly coherent. Anyways I think Subaru should start taking estrogen.

Well, if he wants to be more hourglass shaped he can get a treadmill and walk on it with heavy duty hip-swing. In my experience, this juices the buttocks and to a lesser degree thighs.

Bras can be padded. Clothes can be adjusted…

He doesn’t need medical intervention.
Hell, most of the reason I still take HRT is psychiatric health. My brain doesn’t work right with the factory-standard balance. Need additives to keep the old engine from knocking.

People who have a balance not for them are often depressed, angry, perpetually stressed…

 

[DesertStorm]

Buddy it sounds like you've got a fetish for this kinda thing that you're ashamed of, and trying to farm it out onto other people

I'm fine with that hobby as long as you keep it to yourselves like porn consumption.

I'm open-minded with those people because I have already dealt with them irl, but that doesn't mean I have to tolerate them when young folks' minds could be corrupted.

 

[Dingo777]

I'm open-minded with those people because I have already dealt with them irl, but that doesn't mean I have to tolerate them when young folks' minds could be corrupted.

“Being proud of yourself in a way that doesn’t hurt others” is now corruption apparently.

 

[Makklea]

I don't know, but there's a difference with consuming content in FANZA as a private hobby compared to crossdressing as a public hobby for people to see, which seems like a fetish to me.

This whole chapter the mangaka just built a strawman to justify crossdressing as a public hobby.

Comparing drinking alcohol to crossdressing is just weak to me as well. I'm fine with that hobby as long as you keep it to yourselves like porn consumption. I don't need to know what you're into.

how have you managed to make is this far in the manga while missing the entire point? and all the people who liked it too, do you people read with your eyes closed? do you just scroll through and look at the pretty pictures?

 

[mtfunky]

Internet discourse is so amazing

 

[Dingo777]

Internet discourse is so amazing

-ly toxic

 

[Jerach]

Having this kind of conversation with someone like this and it NOT ending with a completely burnt bridge? I know this is fiction, but there's only so much my disbelief can be suspended.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for the MC, but as someone who's bared witness to this kind of scenario a few times, this is some serious wish fulfillment, possibly more than any isekai could ever be. It is a nice wish, though, isn't it?

Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. This was a great chapter from a great series. I'm just saying...y'know?

That's honestly kind of how I felt. Like it's nice that things worked out but it feels almost too easy. Like, if somebody has that negative initial reaction to anything queer or gender nonconforming I feel like even if they can reach a point of understanding the road is agonizing. Feels like the author had to make this much quicker because the story doesn't have time to go through this in depth.

 

[Septazia]

The point was it's relatable to trans perspectives. There's no wanting the character to suffer, just a lighthearted remark. Yeesh. It should be obvious that sexuality is irrelevant to gender dysphoria. No need to get insecure.

Taking steroids is not exactly a lighthearted choice, there are side effects, and when taken by a man is usually not something done by someone who is secure in its sexuality.

That's honestly kind of how I felt. Like it's nice that things worked out but it feels almost too easy. Like, if somebody has that negative initial reaction to anything queer or gender nonconforming I feel like even if they can reach a point of understanding the road is agonizing. Feels like the author had to make this much quicker because the story doesn't have time to go through this in depth.

That's odd to hear, I mean when I look at sweat and soap, that one had the characters deal with problems in a way that felt realistic, where even if you face the brunt of it, something still lingers, and you got to deal with it little by little.

 

[DesertStorm]

how have you managed to make is this far in the manga while missing the entire point? and all the people who liked it too, do you people read with your eyes closed? do you just scroll through and look at the pretty pictures?

The same as reading Mein Kampf or Das Kapital. Some people disagree with and some don't.

 

[W-Scarecrow]

So proud he stood up for himself, he's grown as a person and I really enjoyed seeing it.

 

[Dingo777]

The same as reading Mein Kampf or Das Kapital. Some people disagree with and some don't.

Bro Unironically compared it to Mein Fuckin Kampf, “I’m 13 and this is deep” confirmed

 

[ghostwriter.123]

The same as reading Mein Kampf or Das Kapital. Some people disagree with and some don't.

MEIN KAMPF!?
THAT should not at all be put in the same sentence as Das Kapital...

One's like a a philosophy/economics book that forms the basis for some communist and socialist ideologies and the other's FUCKING NAZI PROPAGANDA

 

[ghostwriter.123]

I don't know, but there's a difference with consuming content in FANZA as a private hobby compared to crossdressing as a public hobby for people to see, which seems like a fetish to me.

This whole chapter the mangaka just built a strawman to justify crossdressing as a public hobby.

Comparing drinking alcohol to crossdressing is just weak to me as well. I'm fine with that hobby as long as you keep it to yourselves like porn consumption. I don't need to know what you're into.

Why exactly do you see crossdressing as a fetish?

It isn't at all harmful to anybody or anything (other than social norms which are arbitrary and constantly changing)

Is it so wrong for a man to want to wear skirts, dresses or to put on makeup? Do you think that every crossdresser has a boner whenever they walk around in public or something?

There are definitely SOME people that have fetishes like that but that isn't representative of a lot of the crossdressers, femboys and gender non-comforming people that exist in the world.

 

[ghostwriter.123]

Just so we're clear. An obese unshaven man in his late 40s wearing a thong, a microskirt and a crop top as a statement of rebellion to the status quo.

This is normal to you, huh?

1. Subaru's fashion is nothing like what you've described nor what a lot of gender non-comforming people wear

2. AS LONG AS he makes sure to keep his genitals covered and out of sight that's perfectly fine! I've seen cis people wear much worse and much more risqué things in public (especially on beaches) and not be publicly shamed or attacked because of it so why should things be different for this hypothetical man? because he's wearing a skirt as a man?

 

[DesertStorm]

Bro Unironically compared it to Mein Fuckin Kampf, “I’m 13 and this is deep” confirmed

LMFAO Isn't the point of this manga to justify crossdressing? Just like those books, they try to justify the author's beliefs.

MEIN KAMPF!?
THAT should not at all be put in the same sentence as Das Kapital...

One's like a a philosophy/economics book that forms the basis for some communist and socialist ideologies and the other's FUCKING NAZI PROPAGANDA

Das Kapital made some good points. Could be why Mangione took the last resort or whatever...

Why exactly do you see crossdressing as a fetish?

It isn't at all harmful to anybody or anything (other than social norms which are arbitrary and constantly changing)

Is it so wrong for a man to want to wear skirts, dresses or to put on makeup? Do you think that every crossdresser has a boner whenever they walk around in public or something?

There are definitely SOME people that have fetishes like that but that isn't representative of a lot of the crossdressers, femboys and gender non-comforming people that exist in the world.

It is when done in that context. Autogynephilia is a thing. Call me a truscum or whatever, but Buck Angel and JK Rowling was right!

Let's not discount mental health.

I'm fine with men wearing whatever for a comedy skit. Matsuko Deluxe is a prime example of a person that I'm cool with. Maybe, they can try emulating him.

I agree with you on your last point.

1. Subaru's fashion is nothing like what you've described nor what a lot of gender non-comforming people wear

2. AS LONG AS he makes sure to keep his genitals covered and out of sight that's perfectly fine! I've seen cis people wear much worse and much more risqué things in public (especially on beaches) and not be publicly shamed or attacked because of it so why should things be different for this hypothetical man? because he's wearing a skirt as a man?

You're cool because you somehow manage to read my comments, even if only partially.

I'm fine with the crossdressing. I mean do whatever just consider the time, place and occasion. If you're in a drag bar, then go all ham for all I care! If there's children though, then it just doesn't sit right with me.

Depending on one's body type, I would honestly think some people reconsider what they're wearing, but since it's the beach, I can give them a pass. People would just avoid you like the plague though if you're wearing something provocative.