Kasane to Subaru - Vol. 5 Ch. 41

[Jerach]

Having this kind of conversation with someone like this and it NOT ending with a completely burnt bridge? I know this is fiction, but there's only so much my disbelief can be suspended.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for the MC, but as someone who's bared witness to this kind of scenario a few times, this is some serious wish fulfillment, possibly more than any isekai could ever be. It is a nice wish, though, isn't it?

Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. This was a great chapter from a great series. I'm just saying...y'know?

That's honestly kind of how I felt. Like it's nice that things worked out but it feels almost too easy. Like, if somebody has that negative initial reaction to anything queer or gender nonconforming I feel like even if they can reach a point of understanding the road is agonizing. Feels like the author had to make this much quicker because the story doesn't have time to go through this in depth.

 

[Septazia]

The point was it's relatable to trans perspectives. There's no wanting the character to suffer, just a lighthearted remark. Yeesh. It should be obvious that sexuality is irrelevant to gender dysphoria. No need to get insecure.

Taking steroids is not exactly a lighthearted choice, there are side effects, and when taken by a man is usually not something done by someone who is secure in its sexuality.

That's honestly kind of how I felt. Like it's nice that things worked out but it feels almost too easy. Like, if somebody has that negative initial reaction to anything queer or gender nonconforming I feel like even if they can reach a point of understanding the road is agonizing. Feels like the author had to make this much quicker because the story doesn't have time to go through this in depth.

That's odd to hear, I mean when I look at sweat and soap, that one had the characters deal with problems in a way that felt realistic, where even if you face the brunt of it, something still lingers, and you got to deal with it little by little.

 

[DesertStorm]

how have you managed to make is this far in the manga while missing the entire point? and all the people who liked it too, do you people read with your eyes closed? do you just scroll through and look at the pretty pictures?

The same as reading Mein Kampf or Das Kapital. Some people disagree with and some don't.

 

[W-Scarecrow]

So proud he stood up for himself, he's grown as a person and I really enjoyed seeing it.

 

[Dingo777]

The same as reading Mein Kampf or Das Kapital. Some people disagree with and some don't.

Bro Unironically compared it to Mein Fuckin Kampf, “I’m 13 and this is deep” confirmed

 

[ghostwriter.123]

The same as reading Mein Kampf or Das Kapital. Some people disagree with and some don't.

MEIN KAMPF!?
THAT should not at all be put in the same sentence as Das Kapital...

One's like a a philosophy/economics book that forms the basis for some communist and socialist ideologies and the other's FUCKING NAZI PROPAGANDA

 

[ghostwriter.123]

I don't know, but there's a difference with consuming content in FANZA as a private hobby compared to crossdressing as a public hobby for people to see, which seems like a fetish to me.

This whole chapter the mangaka just built a strawman to justify crossdressing as a public hobby.

Comparing drinking alcohol to crossdressing is just weak to me as well. I'm fine with that hobby as long as you keep it to yourselves like porn consumption. I don't need to know what you're into.

Why exactly do you see crossdressing as a fetish?

It isn't at all harmful to anybody or anything (other than social norms which are arbitrary and constantly changing)

Is it so wrong for a man to want to wear skirts, dresses or to put on makeup? Do you think that every crossdresser has a boner whenever they walk around in public or something?

There are definitely SOME people that have fetishes like that but that isn't representative of a lot of the crossdressers, femboys and gender non-comforming people that exist in the world.

 

[ghostwriter.123]

Just so we're clear. An obese unshaven man in his late 40s wearing a thong, a microskirt and a crop top as a statement of rebellion to the status quo.

This is normal to you, huh?

1. Subaru's fashion is nothing like what you've described nor what a lot of gender non-comforming people wear

2. AS LONG AS he makes sure to keep his genitals covered and out of sight that's perfectly fine! I've seen cis people wear much worse and much more risqué things in public (especially on beaches) and not be publicly shamed or attacked because of it so why should things be different for this hypothetical man? because he's wearing a skirt as a man?

 

[DesertStorm]

Bro Unironically compared it to Mein Fuckin Kampf, “I’m 13 and this is deep” confirmed

LMFAO Isn't the point of this manga to justify crossdressing? Just like those books, they try to justify the author's beliefs.

MEIN KAMPF!?
THAT should not at all be put in the same sentence as Das Kapital...

One's like a a philosophy/economics book that forms the basis for some communist and socialist ideologies and the other's FUCKING NAZI PROPAGANDA

Das Kapital made some good points. Could be why Mangione took the last resort or whatever...

Why exactly do you see crossdressing as a fetish?

It isn't at all harmful to anybody or anything (other than social norms which are arbitrary and constantly changing)

Is it so wrong for a man to want to wear skirts, dresses or to put on makeup? Do you think that every crossdresser has a boner whenever they walk around in public or something?

There are definitely SOME people that have fetishes like that but that isn't representative of a lot of the crossdressers, femboys and gender non-comforming people that exist in the world.

It is when done in that context. Autogynephilia is a thing. Call me a truscum or whatever, but Buck Angel and JK Rowling was right!

Let's not discount mental health.

I'm fine with men wearing whatever for a comedy skit. Matsuko Deluxe is a prime example of a person that I'm cool with. Maybe, they can try emulating him.

I agree with you on your last point.

1. Subaru's fashion is nothing like what you've described nor what a lot of gender non-comforming people wear

2. AS LONG AS he makes sure to keep his genitals covered and out of sight that's perfectly fine! I've seen cis people wear much worse and much more risqué things in public (especially on beaches) and not be publicly shamed or attacked because of it so why should things be different for this hypothetical man? because he's wearing a skirt as a man?

You're cool because you somehow manage to read my comments, even if only partially.

I'm fine with the crossdressing. I mean do whatever just consider the time, place and occasion. If you're in a drag bar, then go all ham for all I care! If there's children though, then it just doesn't sit right with me.

Depending on one's body type, I would honestly think some people reconsider what they're wearing, but since it's the beach, I can give them a pass. People would just avoid you like the plague though if you're wearing something provocative.

 

[Dingo777]

LMFAO Isn't the point of this manga to justify crossdressing? Just like those books, they try to justify the author's beliefs.

Das Kapital made some good points. Could be why Mangione took the last resort or whatever...

It is when done in that context. Autogynephilia is a thing. Call me a truscum or whatever, but Buck Angel and JK Rowling was right!

Let's not discount mental health.

I'm fine with men wearing whatever for a comedy skit. Matsuko Deluxe is a prime example of a person that I'm cool with. Maybe, they can try emulating him.

I agree with you on your last point.

You're cool because you somehow manage to read my comments, even if only partially.

I'm fine with the crossdressing. I mean do whatever just consider the time, place and occasion. If you're in a drag bar, then go all ham for all I care! If there's children though, then it just doesn't sit right with me.

Depending on one's body type, I would honestly think some people reconsider what they're wearing, but since it's the beach, I can give them a pass. People would just avoid you like the plague though if you're wearing something provocative.

Yeah bro’s like 13, confirmed

 

[DesertStorm]

Yeah bro’s like 13, confirmed

You asked, so I answered. Now, you gonna cry about it LMFAO

If you can't take it, you do know you don't have to engage with me, but you asked for it.

 

[Bonzalez]

You're right. I should've used legitimize.

Pardon me for making a strawman like what this chapter did, but imagine this: an obese unshaven man in his late 40s wearing a thong, a microskirt and a crop top as a statement of rebellion to the status quo.

Would you respect their right to express themselves publicly? I find that hard to believe. We need to limit our personal expression in consideration of others. Yes, you could respect that, but should you?

How far should we take our tolerance? Give someone an inch and they'll take a mile.

As for me, I'm fine with it. I'm already numb to degenerate shit, but not numb enough to expose young folks to this.

The clothes you suggested would be indecent for anyone to wear in public, so you're still not making a salient point.

 

[Bourbon]

I don't know, but there's a difference with consuming content in FANZA as a private hobby compared to crossdressing as a public hobby for people to see, which seems like a fetish to me.

This whole chapter the mangaka just built a strawman to justify crossdressing as a public hobby.

Comparing drinking alcohol to crossdressing is just weak to me as well. I'm fine with that hobby as long as you keep it to yourselves like porn consumption. I don't need to know what you're into.

I get what you're saying, but I wouldn't call Jou a "strawman to justify crossdressing," since I don't think that was the point of their interaction narratively. This chapter was to develop the relationship between Subaru and Jou, and show that in spite of not agreeing or even getting along, they're still ultimately family and will still end up caring for each other, and that Subaru's family situation thus isn't as hopeless as we once thought. It's also to show how far Subaru has grown while dating Kasane, in that he's actually standing up for himself, in large part because she got brought into the conversation.
After all, it's not as if Jou comes to realize he's "wrong" about crossdressing in public; he comes to realize Subaru has had is own share of hardships, and to go easier him.

tl;dr, it's character-driven rather than political.

 

[Mielly]

I don't think it is that unbelievable. It is possible to have diverging opinions and not burn bridges. We don't need to be so polarized by our opinions to the point of going to war over them. Certainly, some will burn bridges over political, religious or other views, but others will be willing to compromise and let some things slide in order to coexist and, honestly, the latter is a better attitude.

Sure, the brother is quite conservative, has a certain view on what it means to be manly and thinks that crossdressing is disgusting but he's also always known that Subaru wasn't all that manly and he does have a view that family should support and be honest with each other. It makes sense for him to, after having talked about it at length and realising he's not going to change Subaru's mind, just let it slide. I mean, Subaru isn't doing anything illegal, he's just dressing funny according to convention and conventions are arbitrary.

I'm curious to see how Subaru's own wedding would go, as I would expect that he would also want to be in a wedding dress.


While some can have a fetish for crossdressing and experience sexual arousal, others do it for other reasons. Subaru doesn't have a fetish; he's not getting sexually aroused in public.


Well, if you're a man and not a muslim, you may want to convert to Islam and move to a muslim country. That way you can cover up your wife in a hijab and other men's wives will be covered in hijabs so you won't need to know what they're into and they won't know what you're into.

I don't need to know what you think about this chapter, but what world would we live in if that's how we thought and couldn't express ourselves in public?

I don't really know why you believe that crossdressing has to be a fetish, nor why you believe that someone wearing clothes and not doing anything immoral can't go out in public. What about tattoos, piercings and other dressing styles that are outside of the norm? I personally find tattoos to be ridiculous; you make your body into a billboard and you display, in an essentially permanent manner, your dubious tastes. But I don't care if others do it and it's the same with crossdressing - what is it to you?

Obviously, drinking alcohol and crossdressing aren't the same. Alcohol is a poison that your body can break down (and don't tell me it's fine in small quantities, try that with a pregnant woman and see how that works out) and impairs your judgment, so it's way worse. (Don't get me wrong, it's helpful to be able to consume alcohol since you can consume fruits that have rot a bit, and adding alcohol to drinks can make it safer which was pretty necessary throughout our history, but we don't need it nowadays.)

How about smoking? That's something acceptable that people do in public that should be banned. Smoking is horrible for your health, and you can't keep it to yourself so when you're doing that in public, you're a health hazard for others.

You're free to think crossdressing is a fetish which shouldn't be done in public but I think you're silly.

I agree with your general point and your stance on harmful substances like tobacco and alcohol being treated as hobbies, but maybe try leaving religion out of this when it wasn't part of the subject.

 

[Dudley]

Having this kind of conversation with someone like this and it NOT ending with a completely burnt bridge? I know this is fiction, but there's only so much my disbelief can be suspended.

Maybe it's because I argued for other people but it's possible to have that kind of conversation with a conservative sibling civilly. And not in the "a wound to be avoided" sense.

 

[Dudley]

"Do you know the word chaser?" after the girlfriend reveal certainly was a choice.

 

[RoseYuri]

Subaru should take estrogen, and so should desert storm

 

[Dudley]

Just so we're clear. An obese unshaven man in his late 40s wearing a thong, a microskirt and a crop top as a statement of rebellion to the status quo.

This is normal to you, huh?

It's already normal to see obese unshaven men in their late 40s in only shorts on hot days. If you're near a body of water they may also wear quite form-fitting trunks.
These are circumstances when it's understandable for them to reveal their body and it doesn't read as them trying to be sexually appealing and especially as them preying on children.
You lump the concept of feminine clothes with being used for sex. Those are not the same.

 

[Bourbon]

Having this kind of conversation with someone like this and it NOT ending with a completely burnt bridge? I know this is fiction, but there's only so much my disbelief can be suspended.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for the MC, but as someone who's bared witness to this kind of scenario a few times, this is some serious wish fulfillment, possibly more than any isekai could ever be. It is a nice wish, though, isn't it?

Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. This was a great chapter from a great series. I'm just saying...y'know?

No offense, but this comes off as you having very limited life experience. This sort of thing happens all the time; I know firsthand.

 

[Grye]

Holy shit him and his brother made up