Kimi ni Aisarete Itakatta - Vol. 6 Ch. 40 - Childhood Friend

[Hipo]

Nana appeared in the end of chapter 19, he called her his ex. I hope we can see them dating for a while instead of just having sex. Also I had zero memories about her appearing

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

You want to continue to believe that neurons can "fire weakly" because your entire spiel hinges on it.

I refuse to engage this Autistic tirade about the exact mechanics of neuron activation on a thread about a broken girl and a guy with an inconsistent character. If you want to take everything I say literally, and my explanations as attempts at teaching college-level neurobiology, you can go ahead and do that.

I mentioned "response", which can include "grief", and I mentioned some of the factors that go into a "response".

Then replace "Grief" with "Response".
Eighty-six said:
There's some transferable knowledge....
Eighty-six also said:
He's acting flustered, not "like he's never seen a boob before". He outright said he's had girlfriends, lost his virginity in middle school, and has had sex many times

Either you act flustered after doing the same thing several times, or you get used to it because the activity involved is the same. Make up your mind. Does the surgeon get nerves every single time he goes to surgery, or does this guy not panic when a woman tries to sleep with him?

You sidestepped my point and every example I gave in order to give this banal non-response.

I said you're used to naked people. Which you are.

Because you reduced the protagonist of this narrative to breasts and a desire for sex.

Autism incarnate.

You're speaking simply about neurology, all right.

It was my mistake, really. I should have realized you weren't ready for the topic when you took "Never seen a boob before" as a literal diagnosis of the issue.

I don't know why this post is all being registered as your quote, and this forum doesn't let me delete the quote bits individually, so I'm just going to pretend you're arguing with yourself here.

 

[Eighty-six]

I refuse to engage this Autistic tirade about the exact mechanics of neuron activation

You weren't even remotely correct about the basics of neurology that you continue to condescend to me about.

Then replace "Grief" with "Response".

No, because that would yield an entirely different point than the one I made.

Either you act flustered after doing the same thing several times, or you get used to it because the activity involved is the same. Make up your mind.

Your dichotomy is nonsense, and furthermore irrelevant to the point you quote me making, because you're so hellbent on your faultily premised idea of neurology that you're not engaging with me pointing to the clearly depicted reasons why the character is flustered in this moment.

You only think it's inconsistent because your preoccupation with sex prevents you from wrenching yourself from the idea that the entirety of the conflict at hand is the matter of having sex rather than clearly hinted-to convictions that are being explored in this chapter and-- presumably-- the next, that explain why he doesn't want to have sex at this moment.

Because people are able to not want sex. People are able to not want to have sex despite being sexually aroused. Or have you never been in either of those situations?

You're talking about character inconsistency but you hardly talk about the character you claim is being inconsistent.

I said you're used to naked people.

Your original argument on this front was "naked woman --> neuron activation --> erection", so I brought up several kinds of cases where that wouldn't be the case given the context of the hypothetical naked woman (and then I brought up other dispositions on top of those). Those were scenarios where I have never been aroused, and would never have any reason to be aroused.

Again, your view of male sexuality is low.

It was my mistake, really. I should have realized you weren't ready for the topic when you took "Never seen a boob before" as a literal diagnosis of the issue.

Don't make this a problem of me not being charitable enough to hammer out your garbage into something even remotely functional. You can't even register that I've always been fully aware by what you mean by "never seen a boob before":

He's acting flustered, not "like he's never seen a boob before". He outright said he's had girlfriends, lost his virginity in middle school, and has had sex many times (ch. 38, p.11), so this chapter isn't even entirely new information as much as it is providing context for those statements.

I didn't "basically" say what you said-- I'm disputing what you're saying, and you're pretending that we're saying the same thing.

Overall, you're arguing that he's acting like a virgin with zero sexual experience despite what we're shown in this chapter, and I'm stating that 1) he already discussed his sexual history two chapters ago, and 2) this has less to do with his virginity in the first place and more to do with the way he's historically approached intimacy, the way he's chosen to approach relationships, and the way he feels about Kanae.

He's not behaving like a "shy virgin boy", he's behaving like someone who's attracted to a woman he sincerely cares about that he doesn't want to have sex with outside a dating context because of a specific hang-up in his past that's currently being explored.

I won't be surprised when you start blaming me for taking any of your words seriously. "You should know better than to earnestly discuss anything with a guy who doesn't know the first damn thing about neurology but writes entire diatribes about how neurons work!"

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

You weren't even remotely correct about the basics of neurology that you continue to condescend to me about.

"You didn't give me a college-level course on the internet when trying to give me a vague idea of how something works. Begone with you!"
Sure. Whatever

No, because that would yield an entirely different point than the one I made.

Whatever. You're completely unwilling to make a coherent point. People desensitize, but not when it's inconvenient for you. Got it.

You only think it's inconsistent because your preoccupation with sex prevents you from wrenching yourself from the idea that the entirety of the conflict at hand is the matter of having sex rather than clearly hinted-to convictions that are being explored in this chapter and-- presumably-- the next, that explain why he doesn't want to have sex at this moment.

Yup. I'm worried about the sex. That's the source of this issue. You've been paying close attention to what I've been saying for the past day. You're good at listening.

Your original argument on this front was "naked woman --> neuron activation --> erection", so I brought up several kinds of cases where that wouldn't be the case given the context of the hypothetical naked woman (and then I brought up other dispositions on top of those)

Yup. Absolutely. You've completely deconstructed my argument. When I brought up the male sexual response being identical every time when talking about the commonalities between all his encounters, I was definitely trying to argue with you about that time you saw a boob and didn't get hard.

Don't make this a problem of me not being charitable

Dripping with Autism.

I won't be surprised when you start blaming me for taking any of your words seriously.

I don't blame you for anything. This was all beyond you in the first place. It's my own fault for not dumbing it down enough for you.

 

[Eighty-six]

"You didn't give me a college-level course on the internet when trying to give me a vague idea of how something works.

You don't know how it works, to begin with.

The correct version of what you're talking about isn't even "college level"-- you could teach it to a child and they'd retain the information.

People desensitize, but not when it's inconvenient for you.

No, people sometimes desensitize to certain kinds of experiences according to massive interplays of factors that have nothing to do with the bullshit you're failing to pass off as neurobiology, but you're still unwilling to address the actual character's experiences and motivations as currently revealed.

You, yourself, have never been in a situation where something impedes your sexual interest (such as something you value more), so you don't understand what it means to make the decision to not have sex, or what it means to not get aroused despite exposure to sexual stimulus. I have. I've had to deal with something similar enough to what Hiroshi is dealing with in chapter 39, because of similar convictions (though, not resulting from being a serial monogamist). I've met people who've done the same. I've read of people who've done the same.

And I've talked with people who didn't understand my decisions because they themselves had zero romantic or sexual success and couldn't even relate on that front.

Yup. I'm worried about the sex. That's the source of this issue.

No, it isn't. I must have explained several times at this point how it isn't, but you're so fixated on his sexual performance you're not even interacting with the story. It's all over our conversation-- you're more invested in your expectation of how he must behave according to some idea based on a comically faulty premise.

Yet you still think you can complain about the character being written inconsistently.

Yup. Absolutely. You've completely deconstructed my argument. When I brought up the male sexual response being identical every time when talking about the commonalities between all his encounters--

You were making a statement about men in general because you doubted I was a man, myself:

Sorry, are you a woman? Because it's the same experience: Naked lady>Neuron Activation>pp hard. It's not that complicated. It's probably different for you; but not for us men. This isn't a different experience.

When you were actually talking about the commonalities between all his encounters and this one, it was to altogether dismiss their various differences by reducing Kanae to her breasts and desire for sex:

Not really. She's got boobs just like the rest, and she's trying to sleep with him just like the rest. Also this is still sex. She's not exactly proposing to him here.

I don't blame you for anything. This was all beyond you in the first place. It's my own fault for not dumbing it down enough for you.

Your understanding of neurobiology is itself dumb and facile.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

You don't know how it works, to begin with.

Absolutely. My time studying molecular biology has left me unprepared to understand the brain.

No, people sometimes desensitize

Always.

No, it isn't. I must have explained several times at this point how it isn't, but you're so fixated on his sexual performance

You're great at listening. You've got my number. His sexual performance was my problem all along.

You were making a statement about men in general because you doubted I was a man, myself:

Yup. That's why I did it.

When you were actually talking about the commonalities between all his encounters and this one, it was to altogether dismiss their various differences by reducing Kanae to her breasts and desire for sex:

And the lack of relationship, and his previous exposure to difficult, awkward situations with women, and his exposure to being propositioned, and...

Your understanding of neurobiology is itself dumb and facile.

Absolutely is, champ.

 

[Eighty-six]

Absolutely. My time studying molecular biology has left me unprepared to understand the brain.

Which is why you should have never tried talking about the brain in the first place.

Always.

The basis of your assertion on this matter is demonstrably bunk. Give it up.

And the lack of relationship, and his previous exposure to difficult, awkward situations with women, and his exposure to being propositioned--

No such things, outside of him bluntly breaking up with a woman, are shown.

You're making a massive assumption unsupported (and in some cases contradicted) by this chapter that Hiroshi's previous relationships could sufficiently prepare him for what he's currently dealing with. Again, you're more concerned about your preconceived notions of sexual experience than you are with what the narrative tells and shows you about the character at hand.

Hiroshi, in this chapter, is explicitly depicted as being the one to initiate intimacy with a girl. Given the depiction of his first relationship, the lack of detail given to his various implied relationships, and the generalizing monologue he gives in p.14-15, we're led to the understanding that all of the cases between the first shown case and that with his childhood friend were similar enough to the former that they could be glossed as they were.

Meanwhile, the incident with his childhood friend is significant enough to be given more detail, and it's clear that it's in this yet-to-be-completed segment, the cause for his current love philosophy will be revealed.

And then there's Kanae, who's obviously substantially different than any of the aforementioned cases. Hiroshi never mentions dating any mentally ill prostitutes that sexually assault him while rhetorically boxing him in to prevent a more concerted resistance against their aggression-- he never describes anything close. He never even mentions having to put the kibosh on sex for whatever reason, and we see that he was the initiator with his first partner without any indication that such wasn't the case for any of his other ones (except, arguably, his childhood friend, whose case we're seeing play out in full).

We do see that, if only in the past, he terminated relationships as soon as he lost interest, but that's not relevant here. He hasn't started dating Kanae, and he even tries to use that fact to kill her assault-- to no avail.

As far as it's currently revealed or otherwise inferable by the narrative-- rather than your presuppositions on how a non-virgin would behave, or what they would experience-- there's nothing in his past experiences that's prepared him for this.

Yup. That's why I did it.

So, don't try to change the context of what you said.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Which is why you should have never tried talking about the brain in the first place.

Now you're failing to pick up on sarcasm. The Autism is metastasizing.

The basis of your assertion on this matter is demonstrably bunk. Give it up.

Of course it is. Desensitization is a myth.

No such things, outside of him bluntly breaking up with a woman, are shown.

Except for the time he was propositioned by someone he wasn't interested in, or in a relationship with, or the clearly awkward situations he puts himself in by breaking up with them after fucking them. And logically, he's going to meet them afterwards at school.

So, don't try to change the context of what you said.

An inability to detect sarcasm is a sign of Stage III Autism. Go seek your nearest clinical psychologist to find means to cope with your debilitating condition.

 

[no1mangafan]

You two need to chill, it's been two days. There's nearly 50 comments and half of them are you guys arguing.

 

[Eighty-six]

Now you're failing to pick up on sarcasm. The Autism is metastasizing.

I'm fully aware of your sarcasm and jokes. They're unfunny at best and confounding at worst.

Except for the time he was propositioned by someone he wasn't interested in, or in a relationship with

He propositioned her (offhandedly), and he still proceeded by his own choice (p. 24-26) despite being aware at time that apologizing would let him retreat from this altogether (p. 21-22).

The most Nana does is goad him (p. 19-21), not sexually assault him while intertwining the matter of refusing her advances with the prospect of rejecting her wholesale.

That's a good catch, though, considering that present Hiroshi is adamant about not fooling around with people he's not already dating. Something changed, probably him wounding his relationship with Nana-- his childhood friend-- by "not doing things in the proper order" and succumbing to a "lust" he misidentified as "love".

or the clearly awkward situations he puts himself in by breaking up with them after fucking them.

The only thing we see of him "handling" that awkwardness is him asking God to give him a painless death because he's bad at dealing with difficult things (p. 15)-- and that's much more about his failure to maintain interest in the girls he goes out with.

Immediately after that, is Nana telling him that he doesn't know what "love" is to begin with, and his encounter with Nana is obviously being set up as a turning point in his love philosophy.

There's nothing in the chapter indicating that he gets better at handling that awkwardness prior to said turning point.

You two need to chill, it's been two days. There's nearly 50 comments and half of them are you guys arguing.

Noted.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

You two need to chill, it's been two days. There's nearly 50 comments and half of them are you guys arguing.

Agreed.

I'm fully aware of your sarcasm and jokes. They're unfunny at best and confounding at worst.

There aren't any jokes, so...

He propositioned her (offhandedly)

I'm not sure what your win condition is here. Either he didn't mean it, like he said, or he did the "Well I'm joking but if you're down.... wait really? Really tho?"

There's nothing in the chapter indicating that he gets better at handling that awkwardness prior to said turning point.

Which adds to the inconsistency.

 

[ChuuritsuTv]

Did I miss a page?

 

[TestAddress]

Oh- So Hiroshi is a piece of shit like everyone else too. I don't feel bad what Kanae did to him.

Sports and youth go like that. It is like everywhere.

P.S. but that does not mean that is right. Vindication will come to the wicked. Especially if they grow in number, lesson from Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

[zoo-wee-mama]

i am no longer a hiroshi fan