Koibumi to 13-sai no Actress - Vol. 3 Ch. 13 - Troubled Mind

[ErikTheRed]

That feel when the self-loathing sets in

 

[odannyc85]

I think he's starting to peak! we are going to witness peak fiction soon. I can't wait!

 

[Maxmordon113]

After re-reading it, I think I get it.

The flashbacks show someone who was never really considered, and from that became emotionally adrift. He was Mr. Average. He got a game over, his sister said "hey come shopping with me," and the weight there is the flip on "Continue?" from 'yes,' what he wanted to do, try again, to 'no.' His dog passed away, and while his sister cried then, when he was alone, at night, he couldn't stop crying while looking at pictures of him and his dog hugging. He overhears his parents say that the dog was really attached to his sister. He's looking at the Hobbies and Special Skills section, and coming up with nothing. He has to look up what to say. We see him get slapped in public, but we don't know why. We see the smoking woman again, and she's telling him he's annoying.

We hear his thoughts here. Boring. Boring. Boring. At first, it sounds like apathy. But then, we see "I knew it. I really am a boring person." It wasn't apathy, it was self-criticism. He has internalized the idea that he's a nothing person.

He's about to return her hug, when her mom calls. He's happy about this, and he carries her inside and gets her all tucked in with stuff around that she needs, and I think the KEY here is that the second flashback starts as she hands him the letter. The flashback is about how he's lost touch with his friends, and how he didn't mean to, it just happened. He was working hard, but when he poked his head up he realized that... everyone else had things they were working for, while he didn't. The conversation then becomes about how the guy he's talking to really changed once he became a dad. He started feeling like there was something he really cared about. "If you ever become a father, you'll understand too. I'm sure of it."

So what's in the letter? Heartfelt thanks, and a heartfelt plea. She was anxious when her old manager went on leave, but he's been so nice and eased the anxiety. The letter says that she knows this is just his job, but she's happy. But that now and again, could he please spend some time with her outside of work, too? This makes him feel deeply guilty, because he's already decided he's not a good person who cares about her. He was just thinking of her schedule. He wanted to leave the decision up to other people. She's lonely and he's the only one around.

He's boring, remember? There's nothing to him.

I think people are missing the most important part about when he starts flipping out inside. It's not when she touches him. It's after she says "I wonder if this is what it'd be like to have a dad." That's when he starts screaming inside for her to stop. He's begging her to stop. It's not about touch, it's about connection. It's about that she genuinely trusts him and wants him around. He can't handle that. He's not going "OH LAWD DO NOT MAKE ME TOUCH YOU I WILL HAVE THE IMPURE THOUGHTS," he's begging her to not get close. To not care about him. To not make him important to her. I think there's lots of potential reasons why, but the easiest one for me to understand is that... well, nobody seems to have ever done that before. Becoming a figure in this girl's life, being someone who matters to someone, is new to him. He doesn't know how to handle it, and he has already internalized that he doesn't deserve it.

Cause when he walks out, and he both physically and metaphorically looks back, the only person there is Ayano. Telling him that she wouldn't know what to do without him. Telling him she's glad he's there.

I don't see that last panel of him in the car as anguish. I see it as him being overcome with emotions he doesn't know how to process. Because, for the first time he can think of, he matters to someone else.

goddamn, incredible observation right there, this made finally understand what his deal was.

 

[dragoon-spiral]

After re-reading it, I think I get it.

The flashbacks show someone who was never really considered, and from that became emotionally adrift. He was Mr. Average. He got a game over, his sister said "hey come shopping with me," and the weight there is the flip on "Continue?" from 'yes,' what he wanted to do, try again, to 'no.' His dog passed away, and while his sister cried then, when he was alone, at night, he couldn't stop crying while looking at pictures of him and his dog hugging. He overhears his parents say that the dog was really attached to his sister. He's looking at the Hobbies and Special Skills section, and coming up with nothing. He has to look up what to say. We see him get slapped in public, but we don't know why. We see the smoking woman again, and she's telling him he's annoying.

We hear his thoughts here. Boring. Boring. Boring. At first, it sounds like apathy. But then, we see "I knew it. I really am a boring person." It wasn't apathy, it was self-criticism. He has internalized the idea that he's a nothing person.

He's about to return her hug, when her mom calls. He's happy about this, and he carries her inside and gets her all tucked in with stuff around that she needs, and I think the KEY here is that the second flashback starts as she hands him the letter. The flashback is about how he's lost touch with his friends, and how he didn't mean to, it just happened. He was working hard, but when he poked his head up he realized that... everyone else had things they were working for, while he didn't. The conversation then becomes about how the guy he's talking to really changed once he became a dad. He started feeling like there was something he really cared about. "If you ever become a father, you'll understand too. I'm sure of it."

So what's in the letter? Heartfelt thanks, and a heartfelt plea. She was anxious when her old manager went on leave, but he's been so nice and eased the anxiety. The letter says that she knows this is just his job, but she's happy. But that now and again, could he please spend some time with her outside of work, too? This makes him feel deeply guilty, because he's already decided he's not a good person who cares about her. He was just thinking of her schedule. He wanted to leave the decision up to other people. She's lonely and he's the only one around.

He's boring, remember? There's nothing to him.

I think people are missing the most important part about when he starts flipping out inside. It's not when she touches him. It's after she says "I wonder if this is what it'd be like to have a dad." That's when he starts screaming inside for her to stop. He's begging her to stop. It's not about touch, it's about connection. It's about that she genuinely trusts him and wants him around. He can't handle that. He's not going "OH LAWD DO NOT MAKE ME TOUCH YOU I WILL HAVE THE IMPURE THOUGHTS," he's begging her to not get close. To not care about him. To not make him important to her. I think there's lots of potential reasons why, but the easiest one for me to understand is that... well, nobody seems to have ever done that before. Becoming a figure in this girl's life, being someone who matters to someone, is new to him. He doesn't know how to handle it, and he has already internalized that he doesn't deserve it.

Cause when he walks out, and he both physically and metaphorically looks back, the only person there is Ayano. Telling him that she wouldn't know what to do without him. Telling him she's glad he's there.

I don't see that last panel of him in the car as anguish. I see it as him being overcome with emotions he doesn't know how to process. Because, for the first time he can think of, he matters to someone else.

Extremely well put.

 

[Weoooo]

I'm probably wrong and this manga's going to disappoint me later, but there seemed to be so much weight and purpose behind what we're told and what we saw that I wanna believe. It was when I looked at the game over screen and noticed how carefully the manga set up that it WAS on yes, but then switched to no that I went "oh, OH this is METAPHORICAL TOO"

 

[viliml]

I'm probably wrong and this manga's going to disappoint me later, but there seemed to be so much weight and purpose behind what we're told and what we saw that I wanna believe. It was when I looked at the game over screen and noticed how carefully the manga set up that it WAS on yes, but then switched to no that I went "oh, OH this is METAPHORICAL TOO"

Explain further. Metaphorical for what?

 

[Parabola]

While he's having emotions over being perceived as a father figure, someone who is actually being relied on, who is actually being appreciated by Ayano and not just being seen as a face in the crowd, I can't help but feel the author's trying to have it both ways.

Like, yes, there is a genuine emotional connection here. But you can't tell me that the author isn't intentionally muddying the waters enough that it couldn't be interpreted as a romantic connection, as a 'spicy' 'will they or wont they' sort of thing.

 

[Attqqqq]

That feel when the self-loathing sets in
View attachment 10068

*post nut clarity

 

[Weoooo]

Explain further. Metaphorical for what?

Giving up. Not doing something he wanted. It's a small thing that can, honestly, be looked at positively. He'd rather spend time with his sister than play a game, isn't that nice? But there's too much weight on the movement from yes to no for it to not be meaningful.

 

[ipmanvsthemask]

After re-reading it, I think I get it.

The flashbacks show someone who was never really considered, and from that became emotionally adrift. He was Mr. Average. He got a game over, his sister said "hey come shopping with me," and the weight there is the flip on "Continue?" from 'yes,' what he wanted to do, try again, to 'no.' His dog passed away, and while his sister cried then, when he was alone, at night, he couldn't stop crying while looking at pictures of him and his dog hugging. He overhears his parents say that the dog was really attached to his sister. He's looking at the Hobbies and Special Skills section, and coming up with nothing. He has to look up what to say. We see him get slapped in public, but we don't know why. We see the smoking woman again, and she's telling him he's annoying.

We hear his thoughts here. Boring. Boring. Boring. At first, it sounds like apathy. But then, we see "I knew it. I really am a boring person." It wasn't apathy, it was self-criticism. He has internalized the idea that he's a nothing person.

He's about to return her hug, when her mom calls. He's happy about this, and he carries her inside and gets her all tucked in with stuff around that she needs, and I think the KEY here is that the second flashback starts as she hands him the letter. The flashback is about how he's lost touch with his friends, and how he didn't mean to, it just happened. He was working hard, but when he poked his head up he realized that... everyone else had things they were working for, while he didn't. The conversation then becomes about how the guy he's talking to really changed once he became a dad. He started feeling like there was something he really cared about. "If you ever become a father, you'll understand too. I'm sure of it."

So what's in the letter? Heartfelt thanks, and a heartfelt plea. She was anxious when her old manager went on leave, but he's been so nice and eased the anxiety. The letter says that she knows this is just his job, but she's happy. But that now and again, could he please spend some time with her outside of work, too? This makes him feel deeply guilty, because he's already decided he's not a good person who cares about her. He was just thinking of her schedule. He wanted to leave the decision up to other people. She's lonely and he's the only one around.

He's boring, remember? There's nothing to him.

I think people are missing the most important part about when he starts flipping out inside. It's not when she touches him. It's after she says "I wonder if this is what it'd be like to have a dad." That's when he starts screaming inside for her to stop. He's begging her to stop. It's not about touch, it's about connection. It's about that she genuinely trusts him and wants him around. He can't handle that. He's not going "OH LAWD DO NOT MAKE ME TOUCH YOU I WILL HAVE THE IMPURE THOUGHTS," he's begging her to not get close. To not care about him. To not make him important to her. I think there's lots of potential reasons why, but the easiest one for me to understand is that... well, nobody seems to have ever done that before. Becoming a figure in this girl's life, being someone who matters to someone, is new to him. He doesn't know how to handle it, and he has already internalized that he doesn't deserve it.

Cause when he walks out, and he both physically and metaphorically looks back, the only person there is Ayano. Telling him that she wouldn't know what to do without him. Telling him she's glad he's there.

I don't see that last panel of him in the car as anguish. I see it as him being overcome with emotions he doesn't know how to process. Because, for the first time he can think of, he matters to someone else.

I don't think the smoking woman is particularly criticizing him there. I think she's the first one to see his insecurities and give him space to be himself. And Ayano's the 2nd one to do it.

 

[Panino]

After re-reading it, I think I get it.

The flashbacks show someone who was never really considered, and from that became emotionally adrift. He was Mr. Average. He got a game over, his sister said "hey come shopping with me," and the weight there is the flip on "Continue?" from 'yes,' what he wanted to do, try again, to 'no.' His dog passed away, and while his sister cried then, when he was alone, at night, he couldn't stop crying while looking at pictures of him and his dog hugging. He overhears his parents say that the dog was really attached to his sister. He's looking at the Hobbies and Special Skills section, and coming up with nothing. He has to look up what to say. We see him get slapped in public, but we don't know why. We see the smoking woman again, and she's telling him he's annoying.

We hear his thoughts here. Boring. Boring. Boring. At first, it sounds like apathy. But then, we see "I knew it. I really am a boring person." It wasn't apathy, it was self-criticism. He has internalized the idea that he's a nothing person.

He's about to return her hug, when her mom calls. He's happy about this, and he carries her inside and gets her all tucked in with stuff around that she needs, and I think the KEY here is that the second flashback starts as she hands him the letter. The flashback is about how he's lost touch with his friends, and how he didn't mean to, it just happened. He was working hard, but when he poked his head up he realized that... everyone else had things they were working for, while he didn't. The conversation then becomes about how the guy he's talking to really changed once he became a dad. He started feeling like there was something he really cared about. "If you ever become a father, you'll understand too. I'm sure of it."

So what's in the letter? Heartfelt thanks, and a heartfelt plea. She was anxious when her old manager went on leave, but he's been so nice and eased the anxiety. The letter says that she knows this is just his job, but she's happy. But that now and again, could he please spend some time with her outside of work, too? This makes him feel deeply guilty, because he's already decided he's not a good person who cares about her. He was just thinking of her schedule. He wanted to leave the decision up to other people. She's lonely and he's the only one around.

He's boring, remember? There's nothing to him.

I think people are missing the most important part about when he starts flipping out inside. It's not when she touches him. It's after she says "I wonder if this is what it'd be like to have a dad." That's when he starts screaming inside for her to stop. He's begging her to stop. It's not about touch, it's about connection. It's about that she genuinely trusts him and wants him around. He can't handle that. He's not going "OH LAWD DO NOT MAKE ME TOUCH YOU I WILL HAVE THE IMPURE THOUGHTS," he's begging her to not get close. To not care about him. To not make him important to her. I think there's lots of potential reasons why, but the easiest one for me to understand is that... well, nobody seems to have ever done that before. Becoming a figure in this girl's life, being someone who matters to someone, is new to him. He doesn't know how to handle it, and he has already internalized that he doesn't deserve it.

Cause when he walks out, and he both physically and metaphorically looks back, the only person there is Ayano. Telling him that she wouldn't know what to do without him. Telling him she's glad he's there.

I don't see that last panel of him in the car as anguish. I see it as him being overcome with emotions he doesn't know how to process. Because, for the first time he can think of, he matters to someone else.

Having read ahead, Fumi is physically and emotionally unable to put his hand on Ayano.
He is a bit assexual.

Plus, "trauma".

 

[Weoooo]

While he's having emotions over being perceived as a father figure, someone who is actually being relied on, who is actually being appreciated by Ayano and not just being seen as a face in the crowd, I can't help but feel the author's trying to have it both ways.

Like, yes, there is a genuine emotional connection here. But you can't tell me that the author isn't intentionally muddying the waters enough that it couldn't be interpreted as a romantic connection, as a 'spicy' 'will they or wont they' sort of thing.

I get this, but it's part of the difficulty in honestly displaying the fact that Ayano honest to god loves him. Cause, like... she does. That's one of the cores of the manga, and it's something super normal and fine. Kids can, do, and always will have crushes on adults. It'd be weird for them not to, we grow into adults, so of course children see them as aspirational, inspirational, and cool characters. It's also just totally normal for children to find adults attractive, because, well... adults should be finding adults attractive. They have all the things that we're supposed to find hot, while children... don't.

So Ayano looks like she's head over heels for him all the time. She blushes and looks at him and holds his hand and sends him cute letters. She adores him, that's one of the vital parts of the manga. When he tripped and fell, she melted, it was just like her stories. But she's also... a kid. She pulls his hair to get him to stop going into his head. Her cute letters are things like "how tall are you." She goes NUTS when he gives her a letter back. She wants a picture of him and is delighted to get it.

Thing is, I really like that. I really like that it's not shying away from the idea that she has a huge crush on the guy. It's honest! It's real! While the manga synopsis has the giant red flasing "mature for her age" wording, she isn't! She's just used to being on set and is a good actress, but she's not mature. She is very much a kid. It's made even better because she really just wants a dad, or a brother, or... anyone who's an adult around her. She isn't actually looking for an older boyfriend. Nor a prince, nor anything like that. She just wants an adult who is there and who cares about her as a person. Because she's already unsure of her self-worth outside of being an actress.

She's articulated the idea that if she ever leaves the business, she will basically disappear. Which is a wonderfully heavy and wonderfully real thing for a kid to think. Children, especially children raised to do one thing in particular, don't have a lot to ground them. They push for the thing that makes people happy, and can feel like they can't stop doing it because they don't know anything else. Ayano's never not been an actress, you know? She has no idea what it's like, and everyone around her is around her because she's a famous child actress. Kids have deeply fragile senses of self-worth, because they're just starting to develop them.

BUT, and this is THE THING, the thing that makes me both go out of my way to write all this as well as thinking that it won't be long before I look back at all this and sigh, is because all of this only matters if Fumi is not attracted to her. Which, for the most part, feels like he isn't. In most of the big Ayano melting scenes, he's only ever shown concern, confusion, or an inner monologue that consists of horrified begging. But sometimes when she does stuff like hug him unexpectedly or grab his hands out of nowhere or gets really close, he has expressions that are... fishy. USUALLY it's surprise or fear or embarrassment, and I can mostly assume that's what they are. But sometimes, he will, say, raise his eyebrows a bit and blush. Now that's very Manga language for being taken aback or surprised by something. But it is also manga language for "oh my, that made me feel something!"

This, combined with how the manga will often times show Ayano as if they're showing a romance heroine, with panels showcasing her expression or making it clear that she's doing heroine things like looking up at him or getting close or stuff like that, is... it's where I'm frustrated too. Especially because I often look at it as being from her perspective, which I've already articulated is one of the things I really like about the manga. But since this is a manga from everyone's perspective, who's am I supposed to be seeing?
Anyway, I guess I agree with you?

I don't think the smoking woman is particularly criticizing him there. I think she's the first one to see his insecurities and give him space to be himself. And Ayano's the 2nd one to do it.

While I think that is, in the end, what she's doing, especially because we know that they have a history, she's not being nice about it. It's complicated and that was a long enough post already, but I think you can tell its part of a pattern and meant to be seen as that same pattern because of its place in the story.

Because while she is in essence saying "stop pretending to be someone you're not around me," what she's literally saying is that his act of being nice is annoying. This re-enforces his current state of being unable to see himself as an actual person. His kindness is an act. His smiling is an act. Someone saw through it before. Ayano can't because she's a kid, but Fumi always remembers that someone already saw through him as hollow and is sure it's the real him, rather than the one anyone else sees.

Having read ahead, Fumi is physically and emotionally unable to put his hand on Ayano.
He is a bit assexual.

Plus, "trauma".

Asexual? I uh... I don't know if I like that idea! Is it portrayed as that, or is it that cause like... he's an adult and she's a child and it would be fucked up in like a million ways if he WAS able to?

 

[viliml]

BUT, and this is THE THING, the thing that makes me both go out of my way to write all this as well as thinking that it won't be long before I look back at all this and sigh, is because all of this only matters if Fumi is not attracted to her. Which, for the most part, feels like he isn't. In most of the big Ayano melting scenes, he's only ever shown concern, confusion, or an inner monologue that consists of horrified begging. But sometimes when she does stuff like hug him unexpectedly or grab his hands out of nowhere or gets really close, he has expressions that are... fishy. USUALLY it's surprise or fear or embarrassment, and I can mostly assume that's what they are. But sometimes, he will, say, raise his eyebrows a bit and blush. Now that's very Manga language for being taken aback or surprised by something. But it is also manga language for "oh my, that made me feel something!"

This, combined with how the manga will often times show Ayano as if they're showing a romance heroine, with panels showcasing her expression or making it clear that she's doing heroine things like looking up at him or getting close or stuff like that, is... it's where I'm frustrated too. Especially because I often look at it as being from her perspective, which I've already articulated is one of the things I really like about the manga. But since this is a manga from everyone's perspective, who's am I supposed to be seeing?

He won't be attracted to her for quite a while, there was that 5 month flashforward in chapter 1 where he coldly rejected her and we've progressed about two months in the story so far.
But genre savyness tells me that, if you want this to end in any way other than a timeskip wedding, you're likely going to be disappointed.

 

[t28]

I don't get it. Does he need to take a seat, just take a seat right there, or is he feeling guilty because she's projecting feelings of personal safety that he feels unworthy off because he doesn't think he's a good person at all?

The latter, going off the monologue. The “the first thing I thought about was your work schedule, not your health” + the flashback to his friend talking about how he has become someone would do anything to protect his child (while Fumi still feels purposeles) is the key.

 

[Admmi]

Did the mc just dated with someone that he doesnt love?, phew thats kinda problematic, i think the mc had more than one ex somehow lol

the girl probably confessed and he just accepted because why not, but then she got hurt when he just didnt seem to love her like she does him

 

[skylithos]

After re-reading it, I think I get it.

The flashbacks show someone who was never really considered, and from that became emotionally adrift. He was Mr. Average. He got a game over, his sister said "hey come shopping with me," and the weight there is the flip on "Continue?" from 'yes,' what he wanted to do, try again, to 'no.' His dog passed away, and while his sister cried then, when he was alone, at night, he couldn't stop crying while looking at pictures of him and his dog hugging. He overhears his parents say that the dog was really attached to his sister. He's looking at the Hobbies and Special Skills section, and coming up with nothing. He has to look up what to say. We see him get slapped in public, but we don't know why. We see the smoking woman again, and she's telling him he's annoying.

We hear his thoughts here. Boring. Boring. Boring. At first, it sounds like apathy. But then, we see "I knew it. I really am a boring person." It wasn't apathy, it was self-criticism. He has internalized the idea that he's a nothing person.

He's about to return her hug, when her mom calls. He's happy about this, and he carries her inside and gets her all tucked in with stuff around that she needs, and I think the KEY here is that the second flashback starts as she hands him the letter. The flashback is about how he's lost touch with his friends, and how he didn't mean to, it just happened. He was working hard, but when he poked his head up he realized that... everyone else had things they were working for, while he didn't. The conversation then becomes about how the guy he's talking to really changed once he became a dad. He started feeling like there was something he really cared about. "If you ever become a father, you'll understand too. I'm sure of it."

So what's in the letter? Heartfelt thanks, and a heartfelt plea. She was anxious when her old manager went on leave, but he's been so nice and eased the anxiety. The letter says that she knows this is just his job, but she's happy. But that now and again, could he please spend some time with her outside of work, too? This makes him feel deeply guilty, because he's already decided he's not a good person who cares about her. He was just thinking of her schedule. He wanted to leave the decision up to other people. She's lonely and he's the only one around.

He's boring, remember? There's nothing to him.

I think people are missing the most important part about when he starts flipping out inside. It's not when she touches him. It's after she says "I wonder if this is what it'd be like to have a dad." That's when he starts screaming inside for her to stop. He's begging her to stop. It's not about touch, it's about connection. It's about that she genuinely trusts him and wants him around. He can't handle that. He's not going "OH LAWD DO NOT MAKE ME TOUCH YOU I WILL HAVE THE IMPURE THOUGHTS," he's begging her to not get close. To not care about him. To not make him important to her. I think there's lots of potential reasons why, but the easiest one for me to understand is that... well, nobody seems to have ever done that before. Becoming a figure in this girl's life, being someone who matters to someone, is new to him. He doesn't know how to handle it, and he has already internalized that he doesn't deserve it.

Cause when he walks out, and he both physically and metaphorically looks back, the only person there is Ayano. Telling him that she wouldn't know what to do without him. Telling him she's glad he's there.

I don't see that last panel of him in the car as anguish. I see it as him being overcome with emotions he doesn't know how to process. Because, for the first time he can think of, he matters to someone else.

Thanks for the explanation, that explains why I feel such an unease from him. Not from age gap romance rather I can feel how lost he is at everything.

 

[danbellucci]

It would be interesting if instead of falling in love with her , he just wants to feel possessive of her and make her fall in love with him without actually being into her but just because he enjoys the attention and that's why he's feeling guilty about her being into him when he was only worried about her work schedule.
It would be an interesting twist of the manga if the MC was just a piece of shit who likes to give the impression of making an effort and being caring but doesn't actually care.

 

[Raquya]

Pantsu shot censored. Yeah nothings ever gonna happen 😭

 

[Count100]

Something that I have noted is that when Ayano answers to her mother on the phone, she gets into actress mode.

Yes, it's a scheme to make her agree to letting Fumi in, but in retrospect it's incredibly scary that she could do that with her closest relative.

That kid is broken.