Koushiki Furin

[rluka]

Hoping he will do something different here, maybe something still along the lines of NTR but gives the Fumiya some level chance of countering the Netori. Imagine if Chinami's partner is really Futaba's husband, then Fumiya 'awakens' because of Futaba then 'reclaimed' Chinami ( as she sees her husband now as better than her assigned 'partner' ), gaining them both.

My guess is the conflict will be more internalised as Fumiya’s weighing between the choices.

I think Fumiya will be more like the girl in that ntr oneshot. Chinami’s changes will make her feel distant, and made worse because Fumiya still had his ED problem (virility issues hits hard on a guy’s confidence, so he might find it hard to confront her or the other guy). Meanwhile, Futaba is gravitating to him, and this new daily life with her might also make him feel more able to connect with Futaba than the changed Chinami.
Even before the program, Fumiya and Chinami had been giving this “I’m not being good enough” air of hesitation when interacting with each other. Like they’re constantly watching their words in fear of making mistakes of not being a good loving husband/wife.

But, with Chinami not completely being a lost cause, he will have to choose. Will he try to avoid guilt by sucking it up and bear with the situation, playing the “loyal husband” who “doesn’t take the first shot at betrayal”, “stay with her to the bitter end even if he became victim”. Or he will bear the guilt and abandon Chinami.

 

[rluka]

@rluka
You are right. This is swinging. Government mandated swinging.

The new chapter (7) where Fumiya doesn’t instantly recognise the girl in the video as Chinami might lend credibility to the part where they’re not a simple 1-to-1 partner swap.
Which means... maybe we prepare for getting more characters coming up rather than focusing on small set of cast.

Although, it still could just be because the video is dark and angle made it difficult to recognise.

 

[Omi0110]

The new chapter (7) where Fumiya doesn’t instantly recognise the girl in the video as Chinami might lend credibility to the part where they’re not a simple 1-to-1 partner swap.
Which means... maybe we prepare for getting more characters coming up rather than focusing on small set of cast.

Although, it still could just be because the video is dark and angle made it difficult to recognise.

Agree, yet seems now is more in line of the earlier assessment that it is not direct swinging. For the video, to me, looks like Futaba with her usual hair, plus the voice, on Fumiya's perspective, is similar to Futaba. If you look on the Chapter 3(?) she has the same clothes but different hairstyle when she me Fumiya, and I'm basing on the side hair(?) of Chinami, which is not present and closely resembles with Futaba. If this is the case, then Futaba is lying about her statement in Ch 4. However, if this is Chinami with pony tail hairstyle and removed her side hair, then the husband of Futaba is somehow different on what is shown in Chapter 2, which i really feel its the male officemate that introduced Futaba to Fumiya. I would not be surprised if the another DVD contains video of Chinami and her partner as well, however, given the author's cliffhanger style of more questions arising than answered, he will withheld this with some BS interruption or something ( like the video plays then Futaba breaks down which prompts Fumiya to console her and didn't see Chinami being railed then turned off ) .

 

[rluka]

Agree, yet seems now is more in line of the earlier assessment that it is not direct swinging. For the video, to me, looks like Futaba with her usual hair, plus the voice, on Fumiya's perspective, is similar to Futaba. .

When seeing it, Fumiya’s thought is Futaba’s husband, with a woman who is not Futaba. So I’ll take it for now he doesn’t recognise the girl, and probably just assume the man based on her reaction and name (because they’re not allowed to meet who their partners are swapped with).

Chapter 4 the part where she affirm him it’s just for the “task”? Yeah, obviously lying. She looks more like she’s stressed and in search for comfort, and the guy who she can trust most at that time is Fumiya. But he’s not willing to, so she need to also keep a safe distance.

This seems like

Spoiler

The part in eromanga where the ntr guy shows the girl “look, he betrayed you first, don’t that make you feel like a fool for suffering alone”.

The video just shows them that even if they insist “this is for my partner”, the other side might not feel the same.
Although the ntr guy in this situation (Fumiya) is unwilling, but surely enough to plant a doubt in him about Chinami not losing it.

I don’t think it will go straight with him loosing all control though. We can just expect his conflict about how to console Futaba. One thing is, he is using the “we must stay loyal to our partner” excuse, but now it doesn’t apply anymore. It might still satisfy his conscience, but surely meant nothing to Futaba anymore, so she will push harder (difference of willingness).

It still won’t really fulfil the staff’s wish for sex scene soon though.
I’d love if it makes him become more willing and active, but it seems hard for author to present a self-insert mc who is “cheater” without worrying it will be unpopular move.

 

[Omi0110]

When seeing it, Fumiya’s thought is Futaba’s husband, with a woman who is not Futaba. So I’ll take it for now he doesn’t recognise the girl, and probably just assume the man based on her reaction and name (because they’re not allowed to meet who their partners are swapped with).

Yeah there is also, as author wants to intentionally make it very obscure, so I guess this is the truth for now.

Chapter 4 the part where she affirm him it’s just for the “task”? Yeah, obviously lying. She looks more like she’s stressed and in search for comfort, and the guy who she can trust most at that time is Fumiya. But he’s not willing to, so she need to also keep a safe distance.

More of Futaba is also lying here that she does not want the sex with as indicated on Chapter 4, as she already did lie on the 'intention' of kissing before, what does prevent her from lying again? if one of the scenario that the video is indeed Futaba? Also, if she is indeed do not want the sex of her husband in the 20 minute window, why did she cry when she sees the video if it is indeed another girl. It does not add up. She still love her husband, but just slowly falls for Fumiya, which then leads to inside spoiler below

I’d love if it makes him become more willing and active, but it seems hard for author to present a self-insert mc who is “cheater” without worrying it will be unpopular move.

Maybe the author tries to steer away of NTR since a lot of people hate this, as evidently on all forums, but he's love for NTR is so strong he does not want to let go this premise.
To be honest what I would love is expose Futaba as not that good person. I mean, she just suddenly wanted to become housewife material because he 'falls' for Fumiya ( the cooking one, remember Fumiya is the one always cooking for them ), and not for her husband prior to the programme? She is the one NTR'ng Chinami actually, similar to Aitsu no Kanojo haha

 

[rluka]

NTR got its fans, and when he introduced the series in Twitter, there are also encouraging comments. The obvious NTR haters are mostly in English. As long as he commit to one (such as making this ntr), it will probably be fine, better than being indecisive and made the story incoherent.

He recently commented on how many haters seems to be from China.
Although, this is the mixed signal guy who said NTR is not good and turn 180 the next day.

Maybe the author tries to steer away of NTR since a lot of people hate this, as evidently on all forums, but he's love for NTR is so strong he does not want to let go this premise.
To be honest what I would love is expose Futaba as not that good person. I mean, she just suddenly wanted to become housewife material because he 'falls' for Fumiya ( the cooking one, remember Fumiya is the one always cooking for them ), and not for her husband prior to the programme? She is the one NTR'ng Chinami actually, similar to Aitsu no Kanojo haha

Following trope, she seems to have estranged relationship with her husband. When she tried cooking, Fumiya appreciated her effort, and she thought about how her husband never did.

More of Futaba is also lying here that she does not want the sex with as indicated on Chapter 4, as she already did lie on the 'intention' of kissing before, what does prevent her from lying again? if one of the scenario that the video is indeed Futaba? Also, if she is indeed do not want the sex of her husband in the 20 minute window, why did she cry when she sees the video if it is indeed another girl. It does not add up. She still love her husband, but just slowly falls for Fumiya, which then leads to inside spoiler below

Can be both. Unlike dating, marriage is not just about love but also duty.
She doesn’t enjoy the sex, but she still think of him as the man she loves and married. Her swapping partner is Fumiya, who keep remembering his wife and refusing to cross the line even when given chance. That might made her have hope about her husband. But then she also crash harder once the video confirms her husband doesn’t care about making her his only one.

OoT : just remembered an ero doujin with “government match making app with most genetically compatible partner”.
The MC’s childhood girlfriend got matched to someone else and got ntr'd, but the story ends up well. The girlfriend and the ntr guy are actually compatible so they’re happy. Meanwhile the mc also got matched to the cute girl in class soon after, and they’re doing well too.

 

[CaioAUTReal]

Sometimes I wonder... Why on earth did "Bad Girl" end up being underrated in favor of this garbage that the author is writing? 😨🤢😮‍💨🤦🏻‍♂️😭 And why does everyone keep supporting him as if he could solve all of Japan's problems? It makes no sense, and it's not logical at all.

It's absurd that we have to put up with things like this while the world outside is almost literally ending.

We greatly underestimated Nikumaru-sensei's deranged mind to that extent.

 

[rluka]

We greatly underestimated Nikumaru-sensei's deranged mind to that extent.

Talking of deranged, he made story about keeping a pet cactus into ntr story.
Bad Girl ch 57

 

[67User67]

.

.

So, as far as I can tell, both you like NTR?
I'm very curious how/why, and I really want to hear your guys' views on it to understand the appeal
(I don't like it, my main gripe is it's not intimate, and usually any form of it is a betrayal of trust, very unintimate)

For intimacy: comfort/safety/acceptance, vulnerability, (disbelief, a dream come true), warmth, shyness/honesty (and so, dignity), "alone together", etc, and who that person is, as in a hole in the wall isn't attractive
Not a fan of male jealousy, as it's largely due to inaction or lack of comradery, neither have I run across from respectable guys, guys to be friends with, guys speak their mind and often act on it too, they aren't as sneaky as women
Moving on too seems to be inflated to some impossible task, as if there aren't millions of better people

So, question time
Is NTR equal to rape? better/worse?
Is NTR with rape better/worse?
Is the "starts as rape, but ends as consensual" better/worse?
(I can understand "revealing intent" is enjoyable, you understand them better)
I'm aware rape fantasies are common

If you could imagine scenarios that are most appealing for NTR what would they be?
Is it just "You're better than my lover", or a "they're far worse than the lover (so don't want it)"
Amount of dignity affect it? As in they're virgin/chaste so the betrayal is worse?
Is it about betrayal of trust (lack of honesty/social dignity)?
Inability to move on? grieving the past?
Blackmail or seduced?
Relatives or stranger?
Attractive or ugly?
Is it a balancing of how much betrayal to how much pleasure? With higher pleasure implying to a higher amount of carnal betrayal (instead of trust)? Or pure betrayal no pleasure?

For example Berserk ~ch87, it's NTR and sexualised rape, multiple positions, scars disappear, blushing, stars, wrapping arms, kissing, fluids, nipples harden, with a "Don't watch" comment, so, someone who shouldn't be, is bringing pleasure?
I don't understand the purpose behind the "Don't watch", normally something like that is said to children when something horrific is happening, I feel maybe it's a mix of betraying trust to handle suffering and a shallow attempt to protect, I feel it betrays trust more than it protects is my main issue, would you not trust someone you love to share your suffering?
Calling out for Guts, or for help would be more appropriate, a begging for mercy, to be freed, I feel the "Don't watch" implies a "Don't watch (as this happens)", implying it will continue to happen, an intent to allow it to, it doesn't make sense to me

Another example is the oneshot by this author, pg34, she sees him, then... continues? As far as I can tell, that's not intimate sex, she's letting it be shared, watched, which, I find gross, and would imagine moving on from her would be quite easy, I mean, if you had sex with her, she'd let someone watch? What? Weird


About the story, as far as ch5 goes, I think it can be well, in that his Wife cheats, and her Husband cheats, so they've both been cheated on, and bond over that
At least, I think that's the best possible outcome, they move on from their marriages into a new one, odds of that happening I'd imagine are low, given it's 5 chapters in, and "Aitsu no Kanojo" was 73 chapters long (though, I guess this plot can be dragged, not sure)

 

[CaioAUTReal]

Talking of deranged, he made story about keeping a pet cactus into ntr story.
Bad Girl ch 57

Oh no 😂😂😂 It's worse than I thought!

Even inanimate objects deserve more dignity. Who does the author think he is to come up with such a ridiculous idea? 😅

He really wants to be ridiculed/cancelled for free on social media.

 

[rluka]

Oh no 😂😂😂 It's worse than I thought!

Even inanimate objects deserve more dignity. Who does the author think he is to come up with such a ridiculous idea? 😅

He really wants to be ridiculed/cancelled for free on social media.

It’s less of the active ntr and more like bss in that episode though.

Spoiler

The cult of Atori kiddies plan on publishing doujinshi, and gathering story idea.
Yuu’s idea is her being a cactus Atori picked. Atori tried her best to raise the cactus despite many failures. But then, Atori grew to like cactus and starts adopting other cactus to her home. That leaves Yuu feeling in a difficult emotion. She tries to accept that Atori loves all of them, but she also longs for the day back when she’s the only one.
Mizuka’s idea got straight out because she’s too influenced by her real soul sister (Kiyoraka).

So, as far as I can tell, both you like NTR?
I'm very curious how/why, and I really want to hear your guys' views on it to understand the appeal
(I don't like it, my main gripe is it's not intimate, and usually any form of it is a betrayal of trust, very unintimate)

It’s entertainment, not serious social commentary.
To save scrolling space

Spoiler

If I have to try and make it sound clinical... it’s basically strong emotional stimulation.
Just like how it’s said women love story with emotional rollercoaster.
NTR story usually have strong emotional stimulation like that, be the girl’s conflict and eventual surrender, or the MC’s grief in the end. It’s not the level of something you can expect to experience in real life, at least not safely as in fiction.

And that brings it back to the important thing when enjoying fiction : separate it from reality. Keep it contained inside the story, don’t bring it out and compare it to real life where there’s lasting damage.

Alas, I don’t study psychology, Nikumaru does.

Now on to personal enjoyment part.
My favourite sub-genre is actually not netorare. The part I hate the most is not the girl who betrayed the mc, or the bull. It’s the amount of pages wasted for belittling the mc and making him looking pathetic. That’s just noise, I don’t care about him.
So why I read ntr? Because it’s harder to come to pure mind break porn these days, they had been mostly merged into the ntr genre.

My favourite ntr sub-genre is actually bss, which is basically love triangle where the rival win because he made a move, while the mc just sit on his hands doing nothing. The girl never betray him, he just don’t do anything. This is more similar to Nikumaru’s infamous one-shot.
There’s also this ero doujin where the mc scored with his childhood friend. Then the sequel switch to their other childhood friend who also likes the girl but do nothing besides being a creep and claim he’s cuck victim when the couple don’t do anything to him.

This one is mainly fuelled by fatigue because the typical romance manga MC are passive. They wait for the girl to take initiative or they’re “forced” thus freeing them from responsibility of choice. Or how in harem story, even after the mc choose a girl, the other harem members have to stay infatuated and not move on because fans will bring pitchfork to burn the author under accusation of ntr if that happened.
BSS stories hit it with actual consequences, you do nothing, you get nothing. The love interest also have the right to choose.

Also in ntr, I mainly empathise with the girl because she has larger range of emotion. The boyfriend and the bull are usually cardboard anyway, so they’re not interesting.

PS: Hope this is just a “I just want to know your thought” instead of “I want to counter-argue you to reinforce my opinion”.

 

[67User67]

PS: Hope this is just a “I just want to know your thought” instead of “I want to counter-argue you to reinforce my opinion”.

It is, I'm genuinely curious, I think I forgot to mention but I feel it's probably in same vein of spicy food or horror movies, I like spicy, but not horror for example, which is a bit weird, why real pain you know

Edit: Lmao, wrote that up before clicking your spoiler

Edit2: "reap what you sow"
Hate mc for being passive
His loss given to him by her, not by the rival, reasoned betrayal?
Or don't like betrayal, so all this happens before dating?
Or rival pushes him away from her, or she pushes him away for rival?
Mc is to be hated and rival is better? Usually the opposite of most stories, might be why most people hate it, they don't want to hate the perspective they're given

The oneshot, I see,
pg14 he pushes her away needlessly (inactive bonding)
pg16 he interrupts her not wanting to rely on her (pushing away trusting her)(She submits, but he doesn't accept)
pg18 she can't get close to her (he sort of forcefully submits when she's not asking him to, making it feel disingenuine)
Rival and her relate, she's able to rely on rival
pg36 she averts her gaze, display of dignity from her, shame
Active by engaging in bonding, not by putting in effort that indirectly bonds

With submission and dominance, submission I see as a display of trust, and domination an asking for it, too much of either though is a mismanagement of values, both are sort of "I don't care(S: about me)/(D: about you)", flop or rape, for example, kissing, both submit to the possibility of being bit, and close their eyes forgoing sight, another act of submission could be the shoulders lowering in ease, etc
(Why I don't like cufflinks or bdsm, pining down is more attractive, dominant intent and willful submission, asking and trusting)

What's interesting in that oneshot is the forceful submission, he "doesn't care" about himself to the point that she's turned away from him, if she does begin to think he respects himself then it sounds disingenuine, how can you respect someone who doesn't respect themself, so even if she did get with him the relationship would be purely about her, forced selfishness, not enjoyable, instead, she opts for a normal, probably selfless/selfless relationship, makes sense
Still not 100% on her letting him watch though, I guess she knew he'd never step in as she wouldn't allow it, he's very submissive, and she doesn't feel sorry? I'm not sure, it feels quite cold, I guess it's showing she's now ignoring him, as she has no reason to pay attention to him

Could you link that doujin?
If you'll reply again, what do you think of Berserk's ch87 for example?
Love triangle, with rival winning, hate it because Guts is active? or not because Casca is happy she gets to be with her idol? It's betrayal from both to Guts essentially

All this being said, I understand more, but still don't like it if you're wondering, maybe I'm too pitiful, I do enjoy tragic deaths as the characters usually die as you've come to love them, cheating or something would ruin the character

 

[Omi0110]

OoT : just remembered an ero doujin with “government match making app with most genetically compatible partner”.
The MC’s childhood girlfriend got matched to someone else and got ntr'd, but the story ends up well. The girlfriend and the ntr guy are actually compatible so they’re happy. Meanwhile the mc also got matched to the cute girl in class soon after, and they’re doing well too.

Oh yeah, I think I come across of this one. This is during their come of age of some sorts right? But yeah this is some sort of happy ending as they are not yet technically married, or even being SO. However, this now comes to the question if married, as also mentioned in one of the post, is marriage irrelevant and all must be based by science to find true happiness?

So, as far as I can tell, both you like NTR?

Admittedly yes, but not all NTR. Actually I also don't like a lot of NTR. I like a very specific NTR.

Spoiler

For me, its really a mix of things but purely on how I am wired internally.
1. I'm more placing my self as the Netori. Sure most netori portrayed are like ubermen though what I like is the thrill of the hunt I think. Claiming a taken adds a layer of excitement.
2. The ones I usually like are not straight NTR. I specifically like a sub type, the hidden or implied sex, and on how the girl is usually loyal and fights against the feeling of being instinctively dominated, and actually tries to hide this. Same in line on how I play strategy games, I like to confuse my opponents.
3. A lot of NTR drawings are good and generally, their stories in general, for me, is a lot interesting than usual vanilla types. Its purely entertainment and I find it better. Vanilla types or the safe ones tend to overuse romance.

Now given your questions is more on philosophical and going outside tropes, I will not answer your questions each but will take it in general or as a whole.
1. Is NTR bad or evil? - Yes. Definitely. If girl is willing ( cheating ) or not ( CNC at first , true NTR as girl was taken bodily, mentally and spiritually gradually) . As a way to release my instincts. As I said before, instinctively, men likes hunt or dominate while women generally likes to be dominated, during mating. This can even be observed in animal kingdom.
2. Then why NTR? - Because all people have some kinks. Its either they repress it ( think of meditating etc. ) or they cannot control it ( like fu-kboys , though in their defense, they are getting all they come across, not just taken ones ). But NTR has the same line of other kinks. Example: BDSM, would you hurt a person even if that person wanted it badly? Remember hurting other people on social construct is deemed bad and some people enjoy hurting others. Would make it consensual make it better? Of course not since you hurt that person, even on the context of arousal. Same with NTR. Where exactly do you place the line?
3. 'You have not experienced being cheated on' / 'Would you like your gf/wife be cheated on?' - No, of course not. Why would anyone wanted to be cheated on, unless you have the cuckold kink? This is the main problem, most NTR haters only sees on MC's POV only. Maybe it resonates to their lives, their gf / wife cheated on them. Look on the other comments, they outright branded Chinami as cheater or slut. Now, do we say girls are like that? Not really. Same with males that are cheaters. However, typical NTR MC is good guy and do princess treatment to their girl yet girl allows things to happens, and then lie or hides it to MC. Again this is how the author frames it and not really mirroring. If the girl trusts a guy enough and she knows that what she did is bad, he will confide with him. Those that hates NTR on the premise of girl being slut etc. just does not want to acknowledge that they are lacking on some aspects that a girl wants, not just sexually mind you. Its a fact, same with Vanilla. People break up because of incompatibility.

In berserk, you read berserk because of the story and not for NTR. The NTR part/s ( although I can only remember when the Griffith was turned into demon prince and claimed Casca right before Guts ) is just adding flavor on the evil transformation of Griffith.

For the one shot, is this from the same author. The girl is acting on her frustration and jealousy. And she in general does not like the guy in the first place.

 

[rluka]

Edit2: "reap what you sow"
Hate mc for being passive
His loss given to him by her, not by the rival, reasoned betrayal?
Or don't like betrayal, so all this happens before dating?
Or rival pushes him away from her, or she pushes him away for rival?
Mc is to be hated and rival is better? Usually the opposite of most stories, might be why most people hate it, they don't want to hate the perspective they're given

A little similar to Omi’s reply. Vanilla can be boring because the MC is too afraid of pushing the limit. It feels like a lack of confidence that he can protect the relationship while exploring new things rather than play it safe.
And there’s also desire to see the man makes the girl lost in pleasure. Which is probably similar to Omi’s opinion about desire to conquer.

There’s also a common situation where the wife or girlfriend actually feels unappreciated anymore. It’s like the guy felt his goal had been reached and he doesn’t need to do anything anymore because she’s his. He took the loyalty for granted.
If we add this to how the cucked mc are usually typical of romcom protagonist (passive, it’s always the girl who is trying to win his heart), then the other guy who came and actively sees her is more attractive.

Still not 100% on her letting him watch though, I guess she knew he'd never step in as she wouldn't allow it, he's very submissive, and she doesn't feel sorry? I'm not sure, it feels quite cold, I guess it's showing she's now ignoring him, as she has no reason to pay attention to him

What I read from the scene about her is, she’s feeling relief and freed.

• She knows he is obsessing over her.
• She knows this started from what she said (even if he is the one who went overboard).
• He’s not letting her end this, even though it made both of them miserable.

Sure it will be best if they can just talk it out, but he’s not listening.
So with catching her doing it with their colleague, she hope it will wake him up and finally let go. She’s no longer burdened with the unfinished business of putting a closure to all this.

I didn’t bookmark the doujin.
There’s also another doujin about a guy who scored with his childhood friend.
Then in the second volume, it switches mc to their other childhood friend who also likes the girl, but he did nothing besides being a creep, and then wail about being ntr’d. Well, the couple is unaware and don’t care.

 

[67User67]

Netori, Affair partner, more compatible, dating/marriage

Spoiler: comment

Thrill of the hunt I think, claiming taken
Hidden or implied sex, girl is usually loyal and tries to hide this
Vanilla overuse romance

Would you hurt a person even if that person wanted it badly?
consensual make it better?
Of course not since you hurt that person, even on the context of arousal. Same with NTR. Where exactly do you place the line?

This is the main problem, most NTR haters only sees on MC's POV only.
they outright branded Chinami as cheater or slut.
MC is good guy and do princess treatment to their girl yet girl allows things to happens, and then lie or hides it to MC.
If the girl trusts a guy enough and she knows that what she did is bad, she will confide with him.

Those that hate NTR on the premise of girl being slut etc. just don't want to acknowledge that they are lacking compatibility.

In berserk, flavor on the evil transformation of Griffith.

For the one shot, girl is acting on frustration, jealousy, does not like the guy in the first place.

Spoiler: Response

Ok, so being the affair partner, being the better/more compatible option, while she keeps dignity by hiding it or resisting through loyalty
I blame the bland characters for vanilla, so many authors can't imagine characters that live on their on, it feels like the character solely exists to interact with other characters

Spoiler: Hitting/BDSM

Knew a girl who wanted to be hit/choked during sex, and her boyfriend didn't want to hit her, or when he did it was light, I heard the reason it's attractive is the brain is relieved to be able to breathe again, or be free from pain, I can understand how showing the range of free will can be endearing, someone who is able to kill, loving, might be why I like the enemies to lovers dynamic, and also psychos who expand their free will, learning to hug to comfort ("Rebuild World" my GOAT 🙌)
I don't like hitting though, "I won't hurt you" is a lot more loving, those who'd hurt are far more common than love, seems ungrateful

Chinami as far as I know was blowing the other guy, we'll probably disagree here, but that would be cheating in my eyes, it does get into murky water because the guy's got ED, and she's maybe doing it for the sake of him, hates it, and would rather not, but there's not much knowing

Spoiler: Clip

Reminds me of a clip of two guys talking about an email, in the email husband talks about being bored of his wife, married 14 years, and she's been asking for sex for 2 years, but he's been blaming work and stuff, the guys joke about spicing it up and bringing in another woman "Look here babe I'm doing this for you, I'm doing this for us", and "That's crazy as hell man, 2 years?, just gave same excuse for 2 years- Hey man I'm tired"

Spoiler: Cheating

Yea hate princess treatment, said it before, but women's romance is very heavy on gender preconceptions, and is hypocritical in wanting a man to be caring, but never thinking to give a man a flower, usually only in death do men get flowers
From my experience the women who cheat are either childish or sneaky/whorish, also sexist, saying things like "as he should" and being femininely performative (like a higher voice and giggles), I'd imagine to broach cheating if it was done, would be during an intimate talk, expressing gratefulness to induce guilt, and sharing past regrets to be forgiven to hopefully cause relation or mimicking, ease, don't weigh heavy in forcing speaking, be accepting of vulnerability, "don't judge", women are very social orientated, sensitive to ostracising

Netorare, Rival wins, as is more attractive, before dating

Spoiler: comment

lack of confidence that he can protect the relationship while exploring new things
desire to see the girl lost in pleasure.

wife or girlfriend actually feels unappreciated. loyalty for granted.
other guy who came and actively sees her is more attractive.

What I read from the scene about her is, she’s feeling relief and freed.

• She knows he is obsessing over her.
• She knows this started from what she said (even if he is the one who went overboard).
• He’s not letting her end this, even though it made both of them miserable.

Sure it will be best if they can just talk it out, but he’s not listening.
So with catching her doing it with their colleague, she hope it will wake him up and finally let go. She’s no longer burdened with the unfinished business of putting a closure to all this.

Spoiler: Response

Got it, yea, lack of confidence I'll argue is lacking display of free will, it's more attractive to be chosen by a greater than lesser being, to be loved by something who's most aware of you, and is able to love "you" the most, as they see "you" the most, is also able to leave any moment, or kill you at any point, but don't, would never, because they value you, and only you, why the "kill, rescue" stories are enjoyable, as it displays and contrasts the extents of free will (Ivan the terrible (painting))

"Relief" in romance I've thought about, it's probably why there's so many "slave" romances, feeling of being appreciated and the partner being grateful, being the "relief partner", relieving, maybe there's a want to be cherished and held like a child again (reminds me of this old song), no reason not to love, possibly most relieving circumstance, song surely made with at least a bit of genuine desire, for how loving that stage of life is, it seems largely forgotten

Spoiler: Memory

I remember when I was a child I felt the world had a large secret hidden from me, "You'll understand when you're older", porn, it's just porn, felt like some bad ending in a mystery story, not relieving, but I'm content now from something else

Pretty cool both of you have different interests but they do overlap, and both of you agree Rape/NTR stays fiction, your guys' interests do make sense, removing all romance/attraction, it's the "better suited partners being put together", maybe in the same vein as shipping, but, reminds me of a guy that said "I'd love to have her, but if I did, then she wouldn't be who she is now, who I love", naturally, so that might be why I'm averse to it, I don't like changing for the worse, had a nightmare about that once ("You've changed")

 

[Omi0110]

Chinami as far as I know was blowing the other guy, we'll probably disagree here, but that would be cheating in my eyes, it does get into murky water because the guy's got ED, and she's maybe doing it for the sake of him, hates it, and would rather not, but there's not much knowing

Yes this is true. Hopefully on the next chapter, the author shows Chinami again.
What's interesting now is what would Chinami's reaction if shown to her that Fumiya's ED only applies to her? Like if Chinami is just blowing only and no intercourse, would she gives in or be like Fumiya that circumstances?

Pretty cool both of you have different interests but they do overlap, and both of you agree Rape/NTR stays fiction, your guys' interests do make sense, removing all romance/attraction

This is one of the good things with NTR story. It differs on the perspective of the actors greatly yet there is an overarching premise where all of the actors cannot deny as truth. Each actor has a spectrum of emotion touches all at the same time, in such a short frame. Vanilla usually has hard time pulling this kind of setting off since its mostly always falling on romance, and requires a lot of chapters to properly establish this, if it can.

but, reminds me of a guy that said "I'd love to have her, but if I did, then she wouldn't be who she is now, who I love", naturally, so that might be why I'm averse to it, I don't like changing for the worse, had a nightmare about that once ("You've changed")

This is one of the things I don't like, hate even, with typical NTR. The transformation especially from conservative to complete slut. Maybe if I allow a little, maybe from ultra conservative clothing to more freely, but still retains the the elegance ( typical conservative etc. ).

 

[rluka]

Chinami as far as I know was blowing the other guy, we'll probably disagree here, but that would be cheating in my eyes, it does get into murky water because the guy's got ED, and she's maybe doing it for the sake of him, hates it, and would rather not, but there's not much knowing

My first point about that matter is, they’re fictional characters. It is possible for fictional character to be actually pure and innocent at level that would get Darwin Awarded in real life.
In harem comedy, we might see comment laughing the girl as “unrealistic” for liking the MC despite being indecisive and annoying. Yet when it comes to ntr story, they get labelled as “liar/cheater” like they are set against realistic person’s standard.

Anyway, by trope, Chinami is likely just too gullible and got convinced this will help her relationship. That’s why she is excited to blow Fumiya during the visiting time, because she expect the effort will give result (which it doesn’t).

Yes this is true. Hopefully on the next chapter, the author shows Chinami again.
What's interesting now is what would Chinami's reaction if shown to her that Fumiya's ED only applies to her? Like if Chinami is just blowing only and no intercourse, would she gives in or be like Fumiya that circumstances?

I think it would hit her harder. Chinami and Fumiya seem to be the type who will keep blaming their own self for issues.
Chinami will probably be unsure of how to respond, and that’s where the other guy can start putting things in her head. Fumiya is seeing Futaba’s husband betray her. He can sympathise to her, but he is “safe”. It’s not as personal as seeing Chinami doing it.

Spoiler: Cheating

Yea hate princess treatment, said it before, but women's romance is very heavy on gender preconceptions, and is hypocritical in wanting a man to be caring, but never thinking to give a man a flower, usually only in death do men get flowers.

Spoiler

I think part of this is because the idea that they’ve done their part in relationship. The arguments about having to work at home 24 hours including tending the husband. Double that if she also got career, there will always be the idea that she “done more than you”. So there’s less hesitation because the feeling of having more ammo for the arguments. Especially if she’s the type that also keep tab on things to unleash all at once rather than complains right on the spot.

btw, for ero ntr with issue of abandonment from husband/boyfriend, try the series by Hirari.
Although I think it’s rather female side leaning and their conflict more than the cucked guy mopping about it.

Pretty cool both of you have different interests but they do overlap, and both of you agree Rape/NTR stays fiction, your guys' interests do make sense, removing all romance/attraction, it's the "better suited partners being put together", maybe in the same vein as shipping, but, reminds me of a guy that said "I'd love to have her, but if I did, then she wouldn't be who she is now, who I love", naturally, so that might be why I'm averse to it, I don't like changing for the worse, had a nightmare about that once ("You've changed")

Yeah, fiction is for fiction.
“I’d love to have her, but if I did...” in romcom is mostly not afraid of her changing. It’s usually the fear of responsibility on the guy. The anxiety about if he can be an ideal boyfriend who will make her happy. They’re treating dating not as a trial period to explore each other, but as a lifetime commitment.

And like the saying about Japanese prosecutor only chase a case if they’re at least 99% confident to win, and drop the case if they might lose.
The MC usually will chicken out because they’re afraid of making mistake so they choose inaction (you don’t get anything, but at least lose nothing). It’s not “learn from mistakes and fix it”, but “never make mistakes”.

They’re even chickening out when the girl is motivated and change for the better because it makes them feel even more “not the same level as her”.

This is one of the things I don't like, hate even, with typical NTR. The transformation especially from conservative to complete slut. Maybe if I allow a little, maybe from ultra conservative clothing to more freely, but still retains the the elegance ( typical conservative etc. ).

Same here. Hate the trope where they have to change the girl into a trailer trash with tattoo, thick make up, and pretend like it’s sexy.
It’s like either the author had fetish of corrupting and ruining things, or want to give consolation to readers by presenting how fall the girl had fallen as the price of her betrayal, and picture the other guy as bad.