Let's Discuss Common Regional/Cultural Differences Between Manga, Manhwa, and Manhua

[EaterOfBooks]

I've been reading a lot of manga (Japanese), Manhwa (Korean), and manhua (Chinese) stuff, and since switching to mangadex as my main reading platform I've started to take more notice of the little flag icons showing what country each work I read is from, and noticing some general differences between the works from the three countries.

Now, of course, this is all just stereotypes (and there will always be exceptions - works that break the general trends), and my sample size is unscientific and very colored by what translation groups have decided to pick up.

Here's some differences I've noticed:

[ul]
[li]Religious references (often used as a basis for supernatural powers). This one's pretty obvious, since Shinto is a native Japanese religion. Buddhism overlaps all three countries, and Taoism is mostly only found in manhwa/manhua.[/li]
[li]Wuxia/Xianxia as a genre. Pill-popping cultivators virtually never appear in manga, but they're the protagonists of many manhwa and manhua. (This one's basically a freebie, since the genre has its roots in China, and derives from Taoism. It probably influences a lot of the other things I'm mentioning, since it's so common.)[/li]
[li]Webtoons vs. traditional manga publishing. Much of manhwa/manhua is published as webtoons, which brings a particular strip style with it, doesn't have editors (unlike traditionally published manga), and sometimes leads to plots that appear to be written 'by the seat of the pants'. There's also the heavy usage of CG for backgrounds.[/li]
[li]Romance in shoujo-equivalent manhwa/manhua seems to have a fascination with power differentials: attractive asshole bosses, overbearing nobility, etc., and it's unusual to find one set in a high school.[/li]
[li]There's just something distinctive about the way most manhwa artists draw REALLY leggy sleek tall-looking girls. I love it, but the style is very distinctive and common.[/li]
[li]Differing depictions of organized crime/gangs: in manga, stereotypical yakuza, youth gangs, and bosozuku are played for comedy or just as an aesthetic or low-tier canon fodder as much as for drama. The manhwa takes on gangs I've seen feel very 'gritty' by comparison, even when they're sympathetic to the gang members. I haven't read any manhua dealing with gangs or organized crime.[/li]
[li]Videogames: in manhwa and manhua, it's much more common to have a story about playing a videogame, rather than being isekai'd into one, compared to manga. King's Avatar, Hardcore Leveling Warrior, Winter Moon, etc.[/li]
[li]People actually get laid in manhwa and manhua. Sometimes it's even the event that kicks off the plot. That's a very rare thing to see in manga.[/li]
[li]Manhua Evil Nobles^TM are generally eviler and have less motivation than either manhwa or manga Evil Nobles^TM.[/li]
[li]Manhua and Manhwa protagonists are often far more proactive in general, have more devious plots (to the point of making one ask "is this really the 'good guy'?"), and are willing to kill (or cripple cultivation - Wuxia style) for their goals than manga protagonists.[/li]
[li]Manhwa stories set in high school often have this crushing sense of "how well I do here determines my entire life" that isn't as prevalent in either manhua or manga.[/li]
[li]Both manhwa and manhua often have 'saving face' as a plot point in a way that manga doesn't. Manga seems to use the idea of social conformity or 'not being the tall poppy' a lot more.[/li]
[/ul]

I'm not ragging on any of these three countries' cartoons here, but I find the differences interesting. (And there are exceptions to all of these points - this is just what seems common.) Are there any tropes or things you guys see that make you sit up and say "ok, I know what county this is from"? Counterexamples to things I've generalized about the three national cartoon styles? Other points that would be fun to talk about in comparing them to each other, or to European and American comics?

 

[Sem]

This is a fun topic to tackle!

This is something small I've noticed and it's very specific and contained. When Japanese manga/light novels write about mmo's, the setting tends to be a very straightforward western fantasy. It's an idyllic setting. The grass is green, the sky is blue, everyone's names are pronounceable and their outfits match perfectly but never overlap with anyone else (unless intentional).

But I've been reading Hardcore Leveling Warrior and it's NOTHING like any Japanese game-based story I've ever read. I don't know if it's specific to HLW since I haven't read any other manhwa specifically tackling mmo's, but this one treats gaming like gaming. Nothing between the worlds and the players make any sense, and because nothing makes sense, anything and everything goes. The players tend to have dumb names and bad outfits, and the sloppier someone looks, the more powerful they tend to be.

I wish I knew more about gaming culture differences between these countries because I know it's a direct reflection of what games are played there. This is also more of a big overview of current trends, because I've seen this SAO/jrpg pattern in a lot of newer isekai stories, but Hunter x Hunter's Greed Island arc is totally different.

 

[EaterOfBooks]

@Sem that's exactly what I'm talking about. Winter Moon (manhwa/webtoon) has a character who is playing a bare-fisted monk with no armor in the VRMMO because he hasn't figured out how to open his inventory and equip items. Anything goes, as you said. King's Avatar (manhua) is arguably more about the interpersonal relationships between the IRL characters and the politics of MMO guilds and esports teams than about the fights in the game. That's why I listed those three as examples, because they're more about 'the gamer experience' and how people really play games than about "I've been isekai'd into being a Dragon Quest protagonist".

It feels like an entirely different approach to a very similar concept.

I really hope other folks find this a hilarious topic to talk about.

 

[Sem]

@EaterofBooks

I'll have to check those two out! I remember hearing about King's Avatar but passed over it because I was so busy that season. Winter Moon sounds hilarious.

To add to one of your other points, I've found there are a lot of manhwa specifically trying to encourage people who are in or recently out of school and not doing as well as they hoped. There's Zebra, Salty Studio, Magical 12th graders, basically half of Ilkwon Ha's work, and one more about painting that I've totally forgotten the title of. It's a topic I don't see as often in manga. I can think of ReLife, Dragon Zakura and Kakukaku Shikajika, but they're kind of different.

I found a lot of comfort in those manhwa as a student, because instead of giving the characters a magic spell and letting them escape, they forced them to pick up the dregs of their lives, closely examine their goals and motivations, and push forward. I wonder how bad being an student in Korea must be if there are so many stories made to tell them it'll be okay.

 

[EaterOfBooks]

@Sem

Despite Winter Moon being a comedy romp, it eventually digs into "these people are using an MMO for escapism - what are they escaping from?" But it's also a hilarious pastiche of MMO culture. (The initial gimmick is a player using a hot female avatar to get free items and help on quest, who tries it on a gay man.)

I wonder how bad being an student in Korea must be if there are so many stories made to tell them it'll be okay.

I'm no authority on the matter, but there's been a good deal of reporting on this topic: like this piece, which paint a really grim picture. South Korea also has the highest rate of plastic surgery per capita in the world, which feels like it may be related in terms of pursuit of perfection. (Another "ah, this must be a manhwa" marker for me is having characters openly talk about having gotten plastic surgery or theorizing that someone else has.)

It's no wonder that there's a vein of "stories made to tell them it's ok" coming out of that environment. At the same time, the freeter, hikikomori, NEET, and part-timer are also staples of manga, and the college entrance exams loom large as a deciding factor in the lives of more realistic (or dramatic) portrayals of Japanese highschoolers, but you're right - there's a lot more of an edge to that in Manhwa.

 

[Shelly]

I don't know if it's like this anymore, but in the past I noticed that for ones that are in black and white:
[ul]* manga is mostly light/white spaces
* manhwa uses much more dark space
* manhua is in between and seems to use thinner lines in general[/ul]

edit: Well, this is embarassing, but it's what I get for reading the title too quickly. I can't erase my post so I'll just leave it.

 

[EaterOfBooks]

@Shelly That's an interesting observation. Most of the manhwa and manhua I've read recently have been webtoons (which are usually colored), and those make even more use of darker backgrounds. (Cavalier of the Abyss may have been the last pure B&W manhwa I read.)

There seems to be a distinctive 'sleek' style to a lot of manhwa and even more so with manhua, which may have to do with your observations about line width. (There are some huge exceptions, like the Tong series, which uses absolutely frenzied digital brushwork to convey it violence, or The Scholar That Walks The Night, which sometimes looks like it's going for a watercolor look.)

Well, this is embarrassing, but it's what I get for reading the title too quickly

Nothing to be embarrassed about! I'm interested in every general difference someone's subjectively noted between the three: visual, cultural, genre, plot structure, political/ethical bent - whatever!

 

[808bee]

I have noticed a big style shift from the old 2000s manhwa to the present, mostly from the adaptation of internet as platform. I alos feel like they were kind of bad back then, but I think they've come into their own.

American webcomics have also vastly improved over the years, partially from all that manga we grew up with

 

[Sleeper]

As it stands now, I have nothing of direct value to add to this conversation, since my reading list only started to really encompass manhwa and manhua after joining MangaDex, but I absolutely adore topics like this because I've always found dissecting inherent cultural or artistic differences in various works fascinating. Here's hoping this topic continues on strong, because I'll be looking forward to what others have to say! And naturally, I'll chime in any time I have anything relevant to add.

 

[PantsMan]

@EaterofBooks

People actually get laid in manhwa and manhua.

Manhua and Manhwa protagonists are often far more proactive in general, have more devious plots (to the point of making one ask "is this really the 'good guy'?"), and are willing to kill (or cripple cultivation - Wuxia style) for their goals than manga protagonists.

These are more of a consequence of manhua/manwha being webtoons instead of published works. Japanese Web-novels/amateur manga dip into these too. Published works do too, but you'll rarely see that in most fantasy series that aren't direct adaptations (younger audience, censorship laws and all that), which is what you're mostly talking about. Nothing particularly culture-specific going on here.

Differing depictions of organized crime/gangs: in manga, stereotypical yakuza, youth gangs, and bosozuku are played for comedy or just as an aesthetic or low-tier canon fodder as much as for drama. The manhwa takes on gangs I've seen feel very 'gritty' by comparison, even when they're sympathetic to the gang members.

For Yakuza it largely depends on the series. Organized crime in general can go from annoying "we just keep the REAL bad guys out of here"goody goodies, cool """rebels""", cannon fodder, Kaiji's hyper-competent businessmen/gamblers to glorified paramilitary organization like in Akumetsu. It's a pretty broad range.

You're onto something with the delinquent side, though. I guess the 80s biker gang fad was only a Japanese thing, which is why they look back on it more fondly.

 

[EaterOfBooks]

@PantsMan

These are more of a consequence of manhua/manwha being webtoons instead of published works.

That's fair, and perhaps I should have been more explicit with the 'a lot of manhwa/manhua are webtoons' point to say it influenced several of the other differences, much like the wuxia/xianxia point does. Still, the fact that a majority of manhwa/manhua are webtoons (and it's rare to see those from Japan - most of the JP ones I've seen are collections of shorts from twitter) is an interesting difference itself.

Japanese Web-novels/amateur manga dip into these too.

And we're starting to see a LOT more manga and even anime adaptations of JP webnovels in the years since SAO's smashing success which include this stuff.

you'll rarely see that in most fantasy series that aren't direct adaptations (younger audience, censorship laws and all that), which is what you're mostly talking about. Nothing particularly culture-specific going on here.

I'd argue that general audience age, censorship laws, prevalence of webtoons vs. traditional publishing, etc. are an interesting regional/cultural difference. And we're dealing in generalities/stereotypes here anyway: it's still rare to see protagonists get laid even in seinen ecchi works, and there's always been a strong trend of pacifism (or at least "I'll beat you within an inch of your life, but won't kill you - by the way, would you like to be my friend afterward?" or "all the enemies are robots/monsters/demons so it's ok to kill them") across JP stuff for years. I think it's more that ethos that I'm pointing out there.

Additionally, we have a much broader range of Japanese titles to bring to the table for a discussion like this. Manhwa and manhua have only started to get mass-translated in the past several years. For every point I listed, there are numerous counterexamples: Golgo 13, Mad Bull 34, Akumetsu, Black Lagoon, etc. all have protagonists that are very willing to stack corpses floor-to-ceiling. Domestic No Kanojo has a one-night stand as its plot kickoff, and there are several 'slavemancer' isekais that are basically about a dude banging his way through his harem. Conversely, there are a number of manhwa and manhua with pacifistic or 'herbivorous' protags. But we're talking more in terms of generalities and large trends.

Akumetsu

Holy shit, someone else read that! It's honestly one of my favorite manga, and highlights something that I find a huge difference between manga and standard American comics: the sense that the entire system is filled with corruption, rather than there just being a few bad apples in an otherwise decent system.

 

[PantsMan]

@EaterofBooks

Going a bit off-topic here:

Spoiler

Isn't Akumetsu great? Political wish-fulfillment of the highest calibre, and vastly underrated.

I really like the yakuza speech, and how it gets shut down. Too often manga get away scot-free with that "better to have some control, even if it's done by criminals, than none at all" apology for organized crime, so it was really satisfying to see it counter-argued for a change.

 

[EaterOfBooks]

@PantsMan

Continuing off-topic:

Spoiler

I think the best part about Akumetsu is that most of the crimes, negligence, and corruption are based on real incidents (like the heparin hepatitis scandal), and the villains are mostly caricatures of real people. I was lucky enough to read a translation where the translator had notes at the end of each chapter explaining the real historical events and people being referenced.

If you like that sort of thing, Team Medical Dragon may be up your alley as well, since it does a similar "everything is fucked and the excuses are fucked too" take on the JP medical system, written by a former doctor. Unfortunately, he died from surgical complications before the manga was finished (another author continued it), and it's theorized that his death was not accidental - there were a lot of doctors who were VERY angry about his depictions of the inner workings of the Japanese medical system.

I'm not sure the

"better to have some control, even if it's done by criminals, than none at all" apology for organized crime

really is off-topic, since it's a particular cultural influence on how organized crime and gangs are depicted. You often see it from countries where there historically were periods where paying 'protection money' to gangs was legitimately the best option to actually get protection, due to the breakdown or corruption of legitimate government (sometimes due to warfare), or because the people paying for protection were of a class/race the government wouldn't protect or engaged in illegal business so they couldn't turn to the government for help.

You still see incidents like the yakuza being among the first to deliver aid after the Fukushima earthquake in modern Japan, which may also contribute to the more positive side of their all-over-the-place depiction in Japanese media. (It's not just manga - there was an entire genre of yakuza films called ninkyo eiga, which translates to 'chivalry film' until about the 1970s, and depictions of yakuza in most Japanese media are utterly schizophrenic. )

 

[PantsMan]

@EaterofBooks

You still see incidents like the yakuza being among the first to deliver aid after the Fukushima earthquake in modern Japan

Christ, that article gets on my nerves. It's like it was written by a Yakuza himself. Yes, poor little, oppressed and discriminated organized criminal. Like orphans stealing bread from market stalls; nothing but victims of unfortunate circumstance, I tell you! Gag me.

 

[EaterOfBooks]

@PantsMan Understandable. It's quite biased in favor of the yakuza, and gives very little weight to the "they're trying to building goodwill so they can get construction contracts for the rebuilding" angle, even though it includes a quote about that. Still, I feel that the fact that article even takes that tone and feel justified emphasizes the weird place the yakuza hold in Japanese culture, as opposed to the view of organized crime in many other countries. (Hell, the fact that the major groups have offices and business cards in the groups' names boggles my mind as an American.) It may just be due to exoticizing, but it would be a bit strange to see an article like that about an American organized crime syndicate or gang.

Although there's a Monty Python sketch mocking this sort of reporting on gangs and organized crime, which is not just unique to reporting on the yakuza.