Like the Kudan - Vol. 5 Ch. 40 - Hikaru Tsujimoto < Part 16 > Chizuru Sakurai < Part 9 >

[MangaDex]

 

[shrike]

No idea what's going on but i would like someone like Chizuru too

 

[Demomanowar]

"Oh Dear, this is completely ridiculous"
Yeah, you can say that again, pal.

 

[Declimber]

Wait so why again was his girlfriend all cool with

Spoiler

literally walking in on him cucking her with that other chick?

Like, not even a hiccup in their relationship, she's still being all cutesy and considerate for him. You'd expect at least a TINGE of iciness, but we're not even seeing that.

 

[criver]

@Declimber You'd be surprised, but some people do not even consider a purely physical thing cheating: https://youtu.be/ENscSDOsodE

 

[Declimber]

@criver
Informative, but I regret this information.

 

[criver]

@Declimber Why? If anything this is one of the few things the Japanese are more open minded about than westerners. There's nothing flattering about the typical possessiveness and insecurity of westerners when it comes to their partners.

 

[Declimber]

@criver the honest answer is just that the concept is too foreign due to my own upbringing and the values I've tried to gain, where to me the act of cheating

Spoiler

physically or emotionally

represents a lack of respect for your partner, and a lack of discipline from the one committing it.
Cheating is an inherently selfish move

Spoiler

Except in the case of cuckoldry, but that is it's own case entirely

, which to my knowledge, is done solely for pleasure.

I guess for me, It's not so much the result of cheating that disturbs me (since as we see in this manga in an "ideal" situation it has no negative results), more so as the reason for why it's done.
If it's a serious reason, then just break up instead. If it's a frivolous reason, then just don't cheat.

Then again, If people want to cheat, who am I to stop them. As long as they're upfront about that and about how they view relationships, then i'm sure they'll find someone who shares their values/viewpoint. After all I'm not the one dating them, and would do my best to avoid dating them if I can help it. That type of flexibility is not a trait I personally admire.

 

[criver]

@Declimber

to me the act of cheating represents a lack of respect for your partner, and a lack of discipline from the one committing it.

That works the other way around too - wanting to "possess" someone is even more disrespectful - they are not an item. Same can be said about discipline.

Cheating is an inherently selfish move

And yet requiring that your partner cares only about you is even more selfish. That's how love works - it's selfish, you give something and expect something in return. Jealousy and the desire to control your partner's romantic feelings/physical interactions illustrates this perfectly.

I see jealousy and the common western definition of cheating simply as a result of deeply ingrained insecurities - where people are afraid that they'll lose their partner if their partner finds someone "better" while "cheating". It's just human weakness and in general caring more about yourself than your partner. I am not saying that's not normal mind you - I am just saying it's unflattering and stems from weakness.

 

[Declimber]

@criver as you've pointed out, the desire/willingness to cheat is often regarded as something undesirable in a partner. Whether as a result of social engineering or from nature's own genetic engineering, a great number of people share that sentiment and intense forms of jealousy have often resulted in loss of life and social fallout. So I can respect your level of altruism in social situations.

Yet hearing this from you does make me wonder, are their limits for you in a relationship? Do you ever feel that there might be a situation for you where you'd consider your partner to be "cheating" (or something equivalent to the perceived slight of infidelity), or do you yourself have no issues with how your partner may act sexually in public and with others in private?

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assuming this isn't a one sided situation

Would you ever cheat on your partner without telling them or making it clear that it's a possibility?

Getting back to this manga, that last question is the main reason I griped about the portrayed chain of events, since he made the choice to cheat on her when she seemed fully intent on marrying him

Spoiler

like taking the sub optimal job just to spend time with him

while she had previously expressed no desire to cheat herself or to be okay with him cheating. I just felt that the way the MC handled the situation was very inconsiderate to the girl, and felt like it wasn't properly explained away (or inversely, consequential to their relationship).

Spoiler

You could say he's just lucky that she doesn't have a jealous bone in her body, but as evidenced I'd sooner chalk that up as a plot hole rather than a realistic portrayal of a relationship due to my own experiences both in and seeing relationships. It's quite the culture shock

 

[criver]

@Declimber

Spoiler

Do you ever feel that there might be a situation for you where you'd consider your partner to be "cheating"

Instead of cheating, I would rather frame this as the more general issue of betraying your trust/taking advantage of you. Everybody has limits obviously. If you're just pissed that your partner had sex with somebody else even though you had "agreed" to "exclusivity", then that's cheating. There's obviously no excuse for knowingly betraying your partner's trust. I would argue, however, that the exclusivity requirement is stupid and extremely selfish to begin with, so it's not like I cannot understand people that decide to cheat.
If your partner, on the other hand, is just using you/taking advantage of you - then that is not so much about sex/romance even - it's just best to separate yourself from such a person from purely rational considerations (regardless of whether they are cheating).

I quite liked the perspective of the Japanese people in the interview: they actually understood, that if their partner is paying for sex and/or if it's just a physical thing it shouldn't really matter. And this makes perfect sense - why would you deny your partner something that they enjoy? Unless you're just that insecure or possessive of your partner. Or you want to use intimacy to control him/her (that falls under the taking advantage/using category btw). Seems to be a big issue in the west.

Would you ever cheat on your partner without telling them or making it clear that it's a possibility?

I would like to believe I wouldn't. I am not that deluded to believe that I know myself that well however, let alone myself in several months/years. It may well be that I betray a partner in the future even if I find it unthinkable currently.

I just felt that the way the MC handled the situation was very inconsiderate to the girl, and felt like it wasn't properly explained away

Certainly the MC has nothing to be proud of in regards to this - but I believe you would agree he was not in a normal state of mind. The reason his gf just let it go can be for many reasons, so it's not necessarily a plot hole. If you're looking for plot hokes - that manga has bigger issues honestly.

 

[Writerfromanotherstar]

I wish she just left this bastard to founder lost, with that cultist bitch he fucked. Seriously.