Maibara-kun wa Tsuyotsuyo Gal Kara Hanarerarenai - Vol. 1 Ch. 9

[MangaDex]

 

[Juston]

Wish I was him
Would not care about anything but them like stop being such a wimp

 

[Lorithas]

I honestly hate this, because of the Very Real attitude it represents and displays, where a man's willingness and consent to female advances are a complete non-factor. It literally does not matter to nearly anyone if a man is willing to participate in activities like this (the chapter) shows, and blatant sexual harassment is swept away and handwaved into non-existence. The main character is being blackmailed to force him to engage sexually with two people whom he wants NOTHING to do with, and it goes entirely unacknowledged and uncontested, with the whole thing largely being treated as "Oh, it's so good for him". He is being aggressively pursued by two individuals who he does not want to be pursued by or even interacted with, but because he's male, it's considered not only fine but desirable and lucky. I assure you, unwanted advances are neither, FOR ANYONE, but because he was born XY instead of XX, we're expected to consider it entirely unproblematic.

 

[1otakugordo]

Eu sinceramente detesto isso, por causa da atitude realista que representa e demonstra, onde a disposição e o consentimento de um homem em relação às investidas femininas são completamente irrelevantes. Literalmente, não importa para quase ninguém se um homem está disposto a participar de atividades como as mostradas neste capítulo, e o assédio sexual flagrante é varrido para debaixo do tapete e simplesmente ignorado. O personagem principal está sendo chantageado para ser forçado a ter relações sexuais com duas pessoas com quem ele NÃO quer ter NADA a ver, e isso passa completamente despercebido e sem contestação, sendo tratado como "Ah, que bom para ele". Ele está sendo assediado agressivamente por duas pessoas com quem ele não quer ser assediado ou sequer interagir , mas, por ser homem, isso é considerado não apenas normal , mas desejável e até mesmo uma sorte. Garanto que investidas indesejadas não são nada disso PARA NINGUÉM, mas, como ele nasceu com XY em vez de XX, espera-se que consideremos isso totalmente normal.

Cara, eu sou brasileiro e concordo completamente com você. Muito mangá de castidade invertida sofre com o mesmo problema. Esse mangá não me incomoda muito, por que dá a entender que ele só é um garoto tímido, não mostrando realmente repulsa, e que as garotas tem algum sentimento carinhoso por ele. Se fosse uma garota no lugar, não seria algo que eu leria, mas eu veria apenas como um harém invertido um pouco extremo. Mas, tem mangá e novel de castidade invertida que realmente me incomoda. Tipo, em um mundo de castidade invertida, qualquer assédio que um homem sofre, é a mesma coisa que uma mulher no nosso mundo, mas, mesmo assim, tudo é tratado como "privilégio" pelos leitores, com as pessoas, principalmente e tristemente homens, falando que queriam estar no lugar dos protagonistas, isso me deixa desconfortável. A situação chega ser tão absurda, que fetichizam até garotos com menos de 13 anos, serem abusados por mulheres mais velhas! Isso é assustador!

 

[havelmom]

this manga's chapter guide

 

[essensue]

I honestly hate this -snip-

Spoiler: I hear you?

Fully like three quarters of ecchi romcoms are tripping over themselves to find an excuse for the MC to not be DTF. I think at its core, its just lazy writing. You want to depict the protagonist being pursued by a beautiful girl, because that's a nice fantasy. But you want to make a Roadrunner v Coyote cartoon of fomulaic pursuit rather than just have it end in the first chapter with "and then he said yes and they lived happily ever after and made FOUR HUNDRED BABIES."

And so the "absurdity" of the guy being at least somewhat opposed (usually conflicted) gives social permission, in a sense, for the poor boy to be straight-up assaulted. Reinforced by that japanese idiom about it being a man's shame to not eat a meal laid out for him or whatever - that turning down sex makes you less of a man. Really, if you think about it for more than a couple minutes, you inevitably reinvent a criticism of rape culture from first principles, but in a different direction.

I feel like if you played "reverse the genders," a majority of the readers would go from "eh, it's just fiction" to "holy shit, that's not okay," (let's ignore the minority that would just be masturbating furiously.)

... so while the means by which we get there are unique to boys, I have bad news for you if you think the concept of romanticizing abuse or fantasies where consent is ignored are only okay when applied to dudes. Because shit aimed at women is like five thousand percent more rapey and problematic if you look at it uncharitably.

While I don't have a huge problem with this comic or its premise because of some steps it takes to put us at ease, I do have a bit of a problem with this chapter.

On one hand, the series makes it really clear to us that the MC would totally be into these girls' advances if he weren't so terrified of being hated by the boys in his class, that the girls would obviously never actually follow through on their blackmail threat, and that these weirdoes are legitimately in love with their little guy rather than just toying with him.

On the other hand, they did do the "we'll stop if you tell us to" in the middle of assaulting him, and I worry that fully half of the male demographic reading this would legitimately say that "if a girl doesn't say no, it's not rape," not understanding that people freeze up just as often as not.

Ultimately I think better writing and including the fact that "everyone has the right to say no for any reason at all" is the ideal solution, because the fantasy of pursuit will never go away, and a moral panic over imagined harm is never the solution. But that's not happening any time soon.

File this, like many other things, under "GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER, JAPAN"

That having been said, how did those girls even find him? He was even saying "sneak, sneak" as he walked and everything. This is bullshit.

 

[Lorithas]

Spoiler: I hear you?

Fully like three quarters of ecchi romcoms are tripping over themselves to find an excuse for the MC to not be DTF. I think at its core, its just lazy writing. You want to depict the protagonist being pursued by a beautiful girl, because that's a nice fantasy. But you want to make a Roadrunner v Coyote cartoon of fomulaic pursuit rather than just have it end in the first chapter with "and then he said yes and they lived happily ever after and made FOUR HUNDRED BABIES."

And so the "absurdity" of the guy being at least somewhat opposed (usually conflicted) gives social permission, in a sense, for the poor boy to be straight-up assaulted. Reinforced by that japanese idiom about it being a man's shame to not eat a meal laid out for him or whatever - that turning down sex makes you less of a man. Really, if you think about it for more than a couple minutes, you inevitably reinvent a criticism of rape culture from first principles, but in a different direction.

I feel like if you played "reverse the genders," a majority of the readers would go from "eh, it's just fiction" to "holy shit, that's not okay," (let's ignore the minority that would just be masturbating furiously.)

... so while the means by which we get there are unique to boys, I have bad news for you if you think the concept of romanticizing abuse or fantasies where consent is ignored are only okay when applied to dudes. Because shit aimed at women is like five thousand percent more rapey and problematic if you look at it uncharitably.

While I don't have a huge problem with this comic or its premise because of some steps it takes to put us at ease, I do have a bit of a problem with this chapter.

On one hand, the series makes it really clear to us that the MC would totally be into these girls' advances if he weren't so terrified of being hated by the boys in his class, that the girls would obviously never actually follow through on their blackmail threat, and that these weirdoes are legitimately in love with their little guy rather than just toying with him.

On the other hand, they did do the "we'll stop if you tell us to" in the middle of assaulting him, and I worry that fully half of the male demographic reading this would legitimately say that "if a girl doesn't say no, it's not rape," not understanding that people freeze up just as often as not.

Ultimately I think better writing and including the fact that "everyone has the right to say no for any reason at all" is the ideal solution, because the fantasy of pursuit will never go away, and a moral panic over imagined harm is never the solution. But that's not happening any time soon.

File this, like many other things, under "GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER, JAPAN"

That having been said, how did those girls even find him? He was even saying "sneak, sneak" as he walked and everything. This is bullshit.

So....

Spoiler: Starting where my brain starts

I AM aware that there is a lot of stuff with the gender roles reversed from how they are in this manga, and I am...adjacently aware(?) that a lot of things like romance novels and similar aimed at women (especially slightly more mature(in age) women) are depictions of much worse levels of forcefulness and such. My attitude towards them is LARGELY the same, but .... My problem with this manga specifically, and especially this chapter, is really the fact that the attitude it represents is so very real. Even if, in disgustingly many places and ways, it is only performative, when swapping the genders (in real life mind you), there is a great deal more pushback and proper defense for those being assaulted or abused. When it comes to men however, it is ignored, downplayed even harder, OR EXPLICITLY SAID NOT TO EXIST. There is a horrifically common sentiment that it is literally impossible to rape a man because they're always consenting and wanting.
So because of these things, and my long exposure to them with constantly building resentment and desire for positive change, I'm vastly more sensitive to such topics when they show up in fiction, so clearly displaying the horrid mindsets that I see all too often in real life.

Regarding the idea of "they wouldn't follow through on the blackmail threat": I don't see it, and it doesn't really matter if I did. What I see is a person using blackmail in order to sexually assault another person, and it doesn't really matter at all if they would, hypothetically, not do the thing if fought back against. They're still engaging in blackmail for the purpose of leaving an individual defenseless against sexual assault.

Regarding the two of them "actually loving him": he consistently expresses, to the fullest extent he can likely get away with in their social context, that he does not want their advances or attention, and they completely ignore that and push forward for their desires. That is NEVER okay, not under ANY circumstance, and them having feelings for him doesn't make it any better.

All told, I do understand what you are saying.
I do mostly agree with what you've said.
I Deeply appreciate such a long, thought out, and well considered response.
also, I apologize that I don't have a response to each point you've made (assuming you were expecting anything of the sort), I'm not fully equipped to properly process and respond to everything. I feel like I must have lost easily half of what I originally intended to express here already, so trying to force more out is likely a meaningless effort in frustration.
In the assumption that there will not be any more interaction such as this (though not in the encouragement to avoid it): I wish you an easy and pleasant day neighbour.

 

[dw123456]

I honestly hate this, because of the Very Real attitude it represents and displays, where a man's willingness and consent to female advances are a complete non-factor. It literally does not matter to nearly anyone if a man is willing to participate in activities like this (the chapter) shows, and blatant sexual harassment is swept away and handwaved into non-existence. The main character is being blackmailed to force him to engage sexually with two people whom he wants NOTHING to do with, and it goes entirely unacknowledged and uncontested, with the whole thing largely being treated as "Oh, it's so good for him". He is being aggressively pursued by two individuals who he does not want to be pursued by or even interacted with, but because he's male, it's considered not only fine but desirable and lucky. I assure you, unwanted advances are neither, FOR ANYONE, but because he was born XY instead of XX, we're expected to consider it entirely unproblematic.

Truth nuke.

 

[MiguelH224]

Yea he's def gay smfh