MEMORIZE - Ch. 16

[MangaDex]

 

[Oculunus]

It's completely understandable that she doesn't trust him right now, but I really hope she will change her mind before it's too late.

 

[Manga-Titan]

Spoiler

Hopefully she changes her mind soon since the golden lions will collapse after that expedition. Also, I love Yu-Jung's personality.

Mod Note: Please use spoiler tags when talking about chapter-specific or future events.

 

[Hydroprime]

I get why she wouldn't trust him, but given everything that has happened and even though they technically had little say in what he planned for the group most of his plans involved him putting himself first and only him in danger so he's really done everything for his group. I don't get why she ignored the group tho :/

 

[DogWiler]

She's just a dumb whore.

 

[rudreais]

how disappointing tbh

 

[Shirokamisama]

I'm disappointed in the blue haired girl. This last choice of hers wasn't as logical as the ones before. I mean, she got to live at least 2x because of the MC. He didn't harras anyone in any way, and took risks for them. And she joined the ones she barely knew but gave her a bit of training? Disappointing, as @rudreais said.

 

[Akule]

@Shirokamisama - He doesn't tell her anything, and just says: "Trust me." All the readers know his abilities, but he has been hiding it from them. He made it seem like he only survived the monster by luck. This other group is well-equipped and has hundreds of members.

You only know he is trustworthy due to the perspective we have seen, as we are able to see everything he is doing and his motivations. From her end, he is keeping information from them, keeping a forced distance from them, and is acting suspiciously and even irrationally. It is very easy to see why she would make such a decision.

He could take a moment and explain a bit more, but chooses not to. He easily cuts away people who do not blindly follow him. His angel even said: Be more friendly. He chooses not to. Honestly, her objections to him are extremely valid, and it makes sense that she would want to make a decision to go with people who treat her like an equal. I mean, she even asked in a previous chapter for him to step up and lead as a real leader instead of controlling them from the back and getting them to be dependent on him. He chose not to.

Why stay with someone like that?

 

[Akule]

Also, check how many times his "loyal followers" are depicted as dogs.

 

[Shirokamisama]

@Akule
I see your point, but I still disagree.
Just because someone is keeping info away from you, is no reason, to choose an organisation that you barely know, over someone who saved you several times. (In MY opinion) I was writing it from her perspective, I know she doesn't know some stuff that we do know...
"Also, check how many times his "loyal followers" are depicted as dogs." I get this point too, (Just finished chapter 29) and it is half true. Yes, he demands obedience, but he does that becasuse he wants to keep them ALIVE. A disorganised party would only cause death for all. Why do you think that the military is so strick since ancient times? (Even before ancient greece) It is because working together, with a competent leader guiding the group would mean higher chance of survival for ALL.

 

[Akule]

@Shirokamisama - Every time someone questions why, he depreciates them, explaining how they let him down. How he did "all" that he could to help support him, and yet they failed him. Chapter 23 is an excellent example of this.

As far as the others know, he is a fresh person popping into the world. He and the guild mention how the group is all newbies, and how the people who have been here for four years are far stronger, and have accomplished much. Yes, the MC has saved them, but he hides his abilities, and makes it sound like he didn't actually handle anything, but rather was simply lucky. He downplays his skills and abilities frequently in order to hide it from them so he can surprise the people who he wants to take down in the other world.

On the other hand, you have the large clan who built a tutorial area meant for training, who directly work with the angels and can distribute skill points. Who have hundreds of members who are all experienced. Yet, when Kim Han-Byul asks him for a second time to basically explain something ANYTHING to assuage her fears/suspicions of him, he brushes her off and acts passive-aggressively toward her.

 

[Akule]

Kim Han-Byul l is basically going: "Hey, actually tell us stuff and be a leader who we can trust instead of using us as disposable pawns who should always feel grateful to you."

His response is to immediately cut her off instead of trying to persuade her to stay. He's effectively the same as Park Dong-Gyul, the Chaotic Evil guy from the beginning.

He's looking for people to groom into useful, loyal followers for his overall goals, and not friends and companions who share the same struggle.

 

[Shirokamisama]

@Akule
"On the other hand, you have the large clan who built a tutorial area meant for training, who directly work with the angels and can distribute skill points. Who have hundreds of members who are all experienced. Yet, when Kim Han-Byul asks him for a second time to basically explain something ANYTHING to assuage her fears/suspicions of him, he brushes her off and acts passive-aggressively toward her."
It was mentioned that A player started it, not a CLAN and especially not a the Golden Lion as it was mentioned that several clans are contributing to it.
And it is not suspicious that this clan doesn't invite newbies, just the ones the deem talented even though they try to make ppl believe that they are doing this out of good nature. (Some might, I'm not saying that the whole organisation is corrupt or anything) Also, you are saying that:
The MC should trust this girl, with confident info? Even though, she: Albeit she was realistic, were always grimm, and wouldn't try to grasp the straws of hope, and would have ventured forward without MC. (Can't hold this against her that much, as it is quite a logical choice, but... mixed feelings with this one. Hard to say good/bad about this)
She herself didn't trust the MC. NEVER. Why should MC trust someone that doesn't trust him? She DEMANDS, that he has to reveal his "cards" yet she doesn't reveal hers. She won't even tell her CLASS. Yeah it's "rare" and should be kept secret, but what kind of a secret it is that the Lion's already know about it? If she wants the MC to trust her, then she should at least reveal this info, as the Lions already know...

" His response is to immediately cut her off instead of trying to persuade her to stay. He's effectively the same as Park Dong-Gyul, the Chaotic Evil guy from the beginning." While I do not agree with how the MC is handling stuff regarding this, you have to acknowledge that if he says his true skills then: 1, He puts himself in a disadvantage, as this info could be easily used against him, 2,Would have to explain it, which would come down to even more lies, or telling the truth, but how would ppl react to knowing that he came back in time? They wouldn't be all rainbow and sunshine that's for sure.

 

[Akule]

@Shirokamisama -

It was mentioned that A player started it, not a CLAN and especially not a the Golden Lion as it was mentioned that several clans are contributing to it.
And it is not suspicious that this clan doesn't invite newbies, just the ones the deem talented even though they try to make ppl believe that they are doing this out of good nature. (Some might, I'm not saying that the whole organisation is corrupt or anything)

Right, but the player belongs to that clan. Regardless, she trained with the Golden Lion for a the tutorial period, and they seem to know what they are talking about, and are well organized with experienced players. We don't see what happens on her end. Obviously she talked with them about her class, as their whole role is to boost the newcomers abilities. They are also backed by the angels who are guiding them.

It would make sense why she would tell them her class. They offered her a leadership role because of it, and likely due to the abilities she displayed during training. Of course, all of that is unknown, but the MC makes an off-handed comment about how she trusts them more than him.

The MC should trust this girl, with confident info? Even though, she: Albeit she was realistic, were always grimm, and wouldn't try to grasp the straws of hope, and would have ventured forward without MC. (Can't hold this against her that much, as it is quite a logical choice, but... mixed feelings with this one. Hard to say good/bad about this)

I pointed out how you shouldn't go off of knowledge that she doesn't have. We're looking at it from her perspective, not the MC's.

She herself didn't trust the MC. NEVER. Why should MC trust someone that doesn't trust him? She DEMANDS, that he has to reveal his "cards" yet she doesn't reveal hers. She won't even tell her CLASS. Yeah it's "rare" and should be kept secret, but what kind of a secret it is that the Lion's already know about it? If she wants the MC to trust her, then she should at least reveal this info, as the Lions already know...

The MC, is a new player. Right after they talk about how Park Dong-Gyul (the chaotic evil guy) was planning on using people and cutting them off when it was advantageous to him, you have the MC who is making odd choices and not explaining anything. He's behaving exactly like Park Dong-Gyul. He had no qualms of immediately shooting the guy who threw a knife at them (yes, I get he is the "bad guy", but she made a point the first time that she talked to him that NORMAL people don't react that way). She even talked to him privately to let him know: "Hey, you're acting weird. Could you be our leader and lead us the right way instead of making it seem like you are using us?" The MC's response was to ignore her request and blow her off.

Now, put yourself in her shoes. Who are you going to trust? The guy who is acting weird and keeping everyone at a distance, or the well-trained group of people who are planning on giving you a role that shows how much they value you?

While I do not agree with how the MC is handling stuff regarding this, you have to acknowledge that if he says his true skills then: 1, He puts himself in a disadvantage, as this info could be easily used against him, 2,Would have to explain it, which would come down to even more lies, or telling the truth, but how would ppl react to knowing that he came back in time? They wouldn't be all rainbow and sunshine that's for sure.

I understand why the MC is behaving the way he is. It's pretty clear from his internal thoughts and actions as to why he is doing what he is doing. My original comment is directed more toward your statement about how she is not being logical in her decision to walk away. That entire premise is rooted in the knowledge that we have as a third-party observer, and not knowledge she has.

She effectively gave him three instances in which he could gain her trust. The first time was at the cabin when she directly asked him to lead and fit in with the group. He declined that. The second was when she started putting in some distance between them, but met with him at the table for a meal. He could have repaired the relationship, but he chose not to. The last was when she asked him to join her with the Golden Lions. Instead of explaining his reasoning in a way she could understand, he shrugged her off.

Everything she did makes sense and was logical.

 

[Akule]

I should point out that I am not intending any of this to be an attack on you, nor am I angry in my posts. I feel she did a good job with the limited information that she had, and ultimately made the right decision for herself, despite the fact that the author will undoubtedly use her as a foil to show the error in not blind-trusting the MC from the beginning.

 

[Shirokamisama]

@Akule

I won't comment on the things above the one I quoted (below), cuz we would be just going in circles. xd

"The MC, is a new player. Right after they talk about how Park Dong-Gyul (the chaotic evil guy) was planning on using people and cutting them off when it was advantageous to him, you have the MC who is making odd choices and not explaining anything. He's behaving exactly like Park Dong-Gyul. He had no qualms of immediately shooting the guy who threw a knife at them (yes, I get he is the "bad guy", but she made a point the first time that she talked to him that NORMAL people don't react that way). "

Have u seen american's for example? Those ppl that have access to weapons, won't be afraid (there are exceptions ofc ) to use it when another weapon is pointed at you/your friends.
it is a NORMAL reaction. Or you wouldn't hit/cut/shoot a guy, that is out to kill you?

And you are too hard on the MC in my opinion. He did give guidance to them, he did help them during the trial path or what it's called. He helped a LOT. It wasn't just the Golden Lion that were "benevolent".

Anyway, I get your points, but for me, it seems more logical to follow the MC. We are different ppl with different opinions, so it's not unnatural to get to a different conclusion, even tho we see the same facts.
I'm not angry either, I'm just pointing out how I see it. I'm enjoying this a bit too.

 

[Akule]

Have u seen american's for example? Those ppl that have access to weapons, won't be afraid (there are exceptions ofc ) to use it when another weapon is pointed at you/your friends.
it is a NORMAL reaction. Or you wouldn't hit/cut/shoot a guy, that is out to kill you?

Oh, I know, but it is the reaction time. You usually don't see that sort of immediate reaction with no hesitation at all. Especially since that crossbow is load, cock, aim, and shoot. You have to have a lot of training to unhesitatingly be able to react like that and shoot another person, even for the military at peacetime.

Now, I am not saying that this instance would be the thing that breaks it for Kim Han-Byul. It's one of those instances where she noted something off, commented on how he is really trained with that crossbow and had no hesitation to shoot someone in that instance, and he made the weird comment about how the military was training people in all sorts of things these days. If that was true, that would mean he would have had some sort of special forces level of training. If she looks at it that way, he becomes more reliable in some regards (more competent, better able to defend the others, etc), but less reliable in others (is he going to kill us?).

It didn't help his case to have the chaotic evil guy propose leaving the weak behind or as shields, and he would be better served to at least offer up some sort of assurances that he was different.

And you are too hard on the MC in my opinion. He did give guidance to them, he did help them during the trial path or what it's called. He helped a LOT. It wasn't just the Golden Lion that were "benevolent".

Probably. Both the MC and the Golden Lion ultimately want to have useful people working with them who are loyal. I just feel that the MC's way about doing it is too abusive. I mean, there are loads of things that he could have said to play off how he is acting. They don't have a clear indication of how the rules work, so they couldn't really refute him if he said something about how he felt like he had spent a LOT of time talking with his advisor angel, asking questions, and getting answers. Obviously, you want to limit it to the bounds of believability and not pepper it with details, but he could give some of the goals of his intended guiding principles.

Such as: The purpose of the trial (which she did mention afterwards), how to treat other people they meet, how to deal with people trying to kill them, or even just general information about the world.

There are a lot of ways he could have gone to manipulate them into doing what he wanted without putting them at a distance. Now, we know he wants to keep people at a distance, because he doesn't want to lose people he is close to, but he has to know that he can't be too obvious about that, otherwise they will be less inclined to follow them. Of course, it looks like he doesn't actually care if they do. He'd probably shrug, feel his time was wasted in investing in them, and then immediately cut ties with them and walk away.

I feel that an approach like Shikkaku Mon no Saikyou Kenja's Matthias Hildesheim takes with his students would yield better results. Of course, you run into that problem that the MC has of not wanting to be emotionally invested in his followers. Still, a stance of: "I was pretty heavily militarily trained, as I did an early, extended service in the Korean military" would do wonders for explaining his skill set and would be offering a bit of his life in Korea to them in order to better connect to them (even if it is false information) or to show that he is looking to protect people.

Anyway, I get your points, but for me, it seems more logical to follow the MC. We are different ppl with different opinions, so it's not unnatural to get to a different conclusion, even tho we see the same facts.

Certainly up until they got to the Golden Lion. At that point, I can see the appeal to joining a larger military organization of experienced members. I should also preface it with the caveat that it only applies to how it is portrayed in this comic. I have since heard some things that makes the Golden Lion a bit more dubious comes out in the book, but that is stuff that usually is shown to the MC that just reinforces his belief about them.

I mean, heck, he could have said he went into town and talked to some of the locals and asked them about the Golden Lion, and brought back some "rumors" to justify his stance toward them and to explain why he would be interested in starting up his own group in Mule instead. That would have been more fruitful for him for the entire group he is leading. After all, the others are extremely willing to give him the benefit of the doubt already. This would just firm up their opinion of him, like when he is seen doing a ton of reading and researching local dungeons.

I'm not angry either, I'm just pointing out how I see it. I'm enjoying this a bit too.

Oh, good. I wanted to make sure that I didn't come off that way. 😁

 

[camlakorns]

so anyways where's his harem?

 

[yungxishh]

Damn, what this comment, who would reading this 😱😱

 

[slickdeals]

Typical woman.