Mina-sama no Omocha Desu - Vol. 2 Ch. 14

[defientlynotaweeb]

Dam, thought it was just perverted girls at the beginning. They are totally evil holy shit.

 

[criver]

@Nick86

Using multiple accounts to just bash a serie and decrease the rating

I would be very surprised if more than a small fraction of the votes were from alt accounts. It's just not worth it imo. You gain nothing really by modifying a subjective statistic except for wasting your time. Which comes down to a negative net gain.

Indeed with multiple account you can upvote too

It's as senseless as making an account for decreasing the rank. But once again, I don't think that more than a very small fraction results from that. Though I am inclined to believe alts trying to increase a manga's rank is more likely simply due to the fact that fans are known to go overboard, while 'trolls' are known to be lazy.

Also trolls don't care to follow a serie if they can't denigrate and downvote it just to piss off genuine fans.

A manga having a low rating simply means that a lot of people rated it so. There's no conceivable reason, why anyone should be pissed about this, beyond sheep mentality.

make no sense in a system where people can vote with tons of fake account

Just because somebody can do something doesn't mean he will. By all means I would agree with you if you are able to provide data to back up the claim that a 'large enough' fraction of the votes is from alt accounts.

 

[Nick86]

@criver - In my 10 years+ experience with communities you understimate too much how certain people like to piss off other ones over their hobbies, there is people who pass lot of their free time to do so just for the sake to do it and laught. When you can exploit a system is guaranteed that there is always some people who will take advantage to such holes and use them against you, no matter what.
There aren't enought statistics that show evidence that such people are a minority unfortunately, unless you change the system to be less exploitable to prevent such behaviour, example make public the name of people who vote so you can know for certain if someone just register to downvote a serie for this purpose only. When you give to people less anonymity (and i'm not speaking about your true credentials) and let them face their own choices you can be sure that lot of them will not do it.

 

[criver]

@Nick86

There aren't enought statistics that show evidence that such people are a minority

If you state that the system is bad because it is exploited the burden of proof is on you. Not to mention that the devs from the staff certainly have tools to check for a large amount of alts with the same IP. Thus your hypotheses are unlikely.

piss off other ones over their hobbies

If you're getting pissed off over a subjective rating that's on you.

When you give to people less anonymity (and i'm not speaking about your true credentials) and let them face their own choices you can be sure that lot of them will not do it.

I think that many people will welcome having a feature showing how they rated the manga they read. That however does not imply that their votes/reading habits should be public if they don't want them to be so. Many users would rather have their votes/reading list private for reasons unrelated to alt voting. I don't see either how seeing who voted with what score would be useful in this case, it certainly won't tell you if this person has alts. I simply fail to see your point.

 

[Nick86]

@criver - Everyone here use a nickname not their true name, so there is no issues at all if you show how such users vote, this is indeed needed to reduce the exploit of the system because you know, trolls are often cowards.
Indeed no, is not a big deal, as i said before i tend to ignore ratings in a system super exploitable that allow multiple accounts to exist, since is not reliable, the whole debate i raise was only a suggestion to reduce such behaviour not something absolute. Admis are the only ones who know what to do since only them have the data, i base my suggestion only on personal experience.

 

[criver]

@Nick86

so there is no issues at all if you show how such users vote

You don't get to decide that. There are plenty of people that feel uncomfortable with others knowing they read some genre or a specific manga for one reason or another. You don't get to trample upon that privilege without a good reason. Thus you should provide compelling arguments for your suggestion.

this is indeed needed to reduce the exploit of the system because you know, trolls are often cowards.

I still fail to see how this will reduce 'exploits' or how you're going to quantify 'trolls' by their votes.

the whole debate i raise was only a suggestion to reduce such behaviour not something absolute

And I am trying to understand how this suggestion makes sense. Currently I see no compelling arguments for it, but rather multiple arguments which I've listed against it (you're free to challenge those).
To be frank it looks like you're advocating for some kind of censoring and thought policing based on the fact that the system is supposedly exploitable (which btw goes both ways), but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Nick86]

@criver - Indeed you feel uncorfortable when you get exposed, since trolls are cowards is a good deterrent, you are responsible for your own choices. I have no problem to give a score, i always do it at the end of a serie with my nickname.
I'm for 100% free of speech of course, but you can't give absolute freedom without moderation or you get anarchy since unfortunately idiots exist everywhere, they need to be moderated because their fun is someone else suffering. Is just common sense when you manage a community.

 

[criver]

@Nick86

Indeed you feel uncorfortable when you get exposed, since trolls are cowards is a good deterrent

Why can't you consider the fact that a 'non troll' user may not want others seeing what hentai he reads, or what genres he likes, or w/e.

I have no problem to give a score

When you make a suggestion that affects more people than just yourself, this is not about only you anymore. Thus you have to provide compelling arguments. "Trolls are cowards" is not an argument towards disallowing rating below 5 (which as pointed out will just result in moving the bar).
"The system is exploitable" is also not equivalent to "the system is exploited too much" nor does it imply a solution of the form "make votes public" (you also failed to provide the connection between the two).

you can't give absolute freedom without moderation or you get anarchy

This is clearly not the case though, is it? The comments do get moderated, and there's no data that you know of that backs up your perceived 'mass vote trolling' (whatever that means).

 

[Nick86]

@criver - Then do not downvote or upvote if you don't have the resolution or strenght of your own actions. Easy and simple. Indeed i don't have data but i have experience, and i based my opinion on it. Feel free to disagree, after all we are speaking about assumptions.

 

[criver]

@Nick86

Then do not downvote or upvote if you don't have the resolution or strenght of your own actions. Easy and simple.

I have a better idea - leave the possibility for people to keep their list and rating private, as every other sane website does (myanimelist, danbooru, sadpanda). Easy, simple, rational, and tested.

Indeed i don't have data but i have experience, and i based my opinion on it.

Are you this person?

Spoiler

 

[Nick86]

@criver - List is already private if you set so and i agree, score on the other hand is another matter and well, you already know what i think on this part, so debating further is useless.
Don't exagerate, i just know lots of people since i follow lots of communities, my opinion is also not absolute since everyone have different experiences, i bring just my suggestion, in the end are admins to decide not me and moreover they aren't surely reading this small debate in a random manga chapter.

 

[criver]

@Nick86

so debating further is useless.

I hope I managed to dissuade you at least against some of your points.

 

[Nick86]

@criver - Is ok, is just a divergence of opinion, everyone have a different theresold of tolerance regarding certain features and how much control you leave to users. Moderation work well here, happy about this and is indeed more important than mere ratings. 😀

 

[ValidX]

@criver
not me who said it but i understand it a bit ,one is a childhood friend one is stalker ones his brother stalker and so on they have joined it but they have to up hold the rules which the teacher made but still its shit writing but as well did you read the damn whole thing

 

[ValidX]

@sarshi no the same old teacher

 

[criver]

@ValidX
"they have to up hold the rules which the teacher made"
Why? What stops them from reporting her to the authorities as a kidnapper and then presenting themselves as victims and saviours of our MC? The interaction would have been definitely different. Also the fact that most of them seem to enjoy causing him fairly severe pain and traumas doesn't line up with them doing this unwillingly (I'd probably barf if I had to remove somebody's nails).

 

[ValidX]

@criver Do you not listen I said I don't know I cannot read raw fool go and look at it yourself

 

[criver]

@ValidX

not me who said it but i understand it a bit

I took 'I understand it a bit' as you agreeing that they indeed don't have a choice. Seems this was not the case.

 

[ValidX]

@criver what did the statement say about the teacher, and what did it say about the main character

 

[criver]

@ValidX Which statement?