Mujina into the Deep - Vol. 2 Ch. 3.2

[MangaDex]

 

[coyote_vdb]

Thanks for the translation.
Can't believe there are still no announced official release...
I got caught by this one: I thought Main's story was Ubume's in the past, but it's actually a different character, living at the same time as Tenko and Ubume. Probably wasn't concentrated enough while reading...

 

[swimminginsand]

Feels like the story is going to get rolling now that they have explained Mujinas better.

 

[Iroboke]

Tenko playing videogames with Juno was surprisingly wholesome.

 

[nonewwavenofun]

Thanks for the translation.
Can't believe there are still no announced official release...
I got caught by this one: I thought Main's story was Ubume's in the past, but it's actually a different character, living at the same time as Tenko and Ubume. Probably wasn't concentrated enough while reading...

Thought that was some cool misdirection by the author, I assumed it was a flashback too

 

[the_Bear_from_Bearcave]

Thanks for the translation.
Can't believe there are still no announced official release...
I got caught by this one: I thought Main's story was Ubume's in the past, but it's actually a different character, living at the same time as Tenko and Ubume. Probably wasn't concentrated enough while reading...

Ubume's haircut looks very much like middle forehead part remaining of Main's wild haircut. I'm glad Ubume backstory wasn't being such pathetic idiot though.

 

[Lustrist]

whats hangyodon doing there

 

[77BLc9JwJGpLVARkamJx]

Fuarrk, that face slice made me ultra (painful) cringe.

 

[Wuruhiro]

I’m surprised that Main turned out to have talent for the killing business, but, pitting her against Tenko, a seasoned mujina, wouldn’t she be biting way out of her league.

 

[richevans]

The mujina who got his face sliced off was the guy who accused Hashio of taking his picture in the ramen shop in Ch 2.1.

Also I noticed an unusually large amount of trucks, full-size SUVs, and Ford Crown Victorias in what is otherwise supposed to be downtown Tokyo. Turns out the author has been tracing over vehicles from this Unreal Engine asset pack. Not criticizing, just a weird detail.

 

[poemofdevil]

There's not like a single normal male character in this manga.

 

[Ebyandsmartie]

This is so interesting

 

[UnvalidUserName]

Sending a newbie against Tenko sounds plain stupid even if it turns out she is talented or whatever

 

[beep_repair]

Help me out. I still have no idea what this society really gains from the creation of a subhuman class of non-citizens. It seems as though mujinas would allow for a massive expansion of crime empires and even funnel money into them. They would also throw a wrench into the ability of police and the legal system to address criminals and criminality.

I like the series, but the worldbuilding seems slipshod and kind of nonsensical. But maybe I've missed or forgotten some details that help make sense of it?

 

[midoris_mids]

Help me out. I still have no idea what this society really gains from the creation of a subhuman class of non-citizens. It seems as though mujinas would allow for a massive expansion of crime empires and even funnel money into them. They would also throw a wrench into the ability of police and the legal system to address criminals and criminality.

I like the series, but the worldbuilding seems slipshod and kind of nonsensical. But maybe I've missed or forgotten some details that help make sense of it?

I think it might make less sense for people who live outside of Japan. Japan has universal healthcare that is supposed to support everyone. So in the manga the idea is that the government doesn't have to pay for social safety net that would support those who are mujina or over the age of 85. It takes it to the extreme of saying what if the government doesn't even provide the safety that law enforcement and human rights give. It makes a lot of plot holes though, hopefully it's expanded on later.

 

[beep_repair]

I think it might make less sense for people who live outside of Japan. Japan has universal healthcare that is supposed to support everyone. So in the manga the idea is that the government doesn't have to pay for social safety net that would support those who are mujina or over the age of 85. It takes it to the extreme of saying what if the government doesn't even provide the safety that law enforcement and human rights give. It makes a lot of plot holes though, hopefully it's expanded on later.

Yeah, I get that aspect. Even in the US, there's constant, heated debate about the value and morality of the social safety net.

Mujina Into the Deep imagines an alternate version of present day Japan, one that has enacted policies which seem to reflect certain key points in conservative philosophy*... But which no serious conservatives have ever advocated** and which don't really make sense. I mean, yes: denying the benefits of citizenship to the least productive members of society would reduce the cost of the safety net. But the approach depicted here would have enormous secondary consequences, many of which would be negative and/or expensive.

One of the most obvious negative consequences would be the creation of a parallel criminal society which cannot be touched by the legal system. The mujina policy would essentially pay people to become outlaws, and the resulting underworld would not be inhabited solely by street kids. It would also include desperate, hardened, powerful and successful criminals: those already committed to living outside the law. As a result of this and the two-way license to kill, conflicts between lawful society and organized crime would likely become much more openly violent.

There's also the question of what use non-criminal mujina would be put by society at large. The most obvious is not "turn the best of them into super assassins", but rather "funnel most of them into a cheap labor force". I could see this actually motivating somewhat similar policies in the real world (the rich and powerful love anything that will cut costs and/or taxes) and appealing to people who would rather have their lives cared for than struggle against late-capitalist Darwinism.

For instance, companies could enter into contracts in which they purchase the citizenship rights of potential laborers in exchange for guaranteed food, housing and perhaps income. This would drive competition between companies for high quality laborers, which would drive up the value of skilled and reliable mujina, as well as helping to ensure their good treatment by their employer-owners. It would also allow companies to run entire cities inhabited by their semi-enslaved employees according to their own laws and guarded by legally untouchable private armies. Elon Musk would probably love that. So would Raytheon...

But the author doesn't seem interested in engaging with the philosophical/political implications of their ideas, or in extrapolating from their premises in the manner of thoughtful science fiction. It's all just an excuse for an eccentric battle manga with rambling grumpy-old-man digressions.

Still fun tho

---

* especially "individuals must bear responsibility for the consequences of their choices," and "tax money should not be spent on those who don't contribute to society."
** the idea of selling citizenship does appear in libertarian pipe-dreaming

 

[midoris_mids]

Yeah, I get that aspect. Even in the US, there's constant, heated debate about the value and morality of the social safety net.

Mujina Into the Deep imagines an alternate version of present day Japan, one that has enacted policies which seem to reflect certain key points in conservative philosophy*... But which no serious conservatives have ever advocated** and which don't really make sense. I mean, yes: denying the benefits of citizenship to the least productive members of society would reduce the cost of the safety net. But the approach depicted here would have enormous secondary consequences, many of which would be negative and/or expensive.

One of the most obvious negative consequences would be the creation of a parallel criminal society which cannot be touched by the legal system. The mujina policy would essentially pay people to become outlaws, and the resulting underworld would not be inhabited solely by street kids. It would also include desperate, hardened, powerful and successful criminals: those already committed to living outside the law. As a result of this and the two-way license to kill, conflicts between lawful society and organized crime would likely become much more openly violent.

There's also the question of what use non-criminal mujina would be put by society at large. The most obvious is not "turn the best of them into super assassins", but rather "funnel most of them into a cheap labor force". I could see this actually motivating somewhat similar policies in the real world (the rich and powerful love anything that will cut costs and/or taxes) and appealing to people who would rather have their lives cared for than struggle against late-capitalist Darwinism.

For instance, companies could enter into contracts in which they purchase the citizenship rights of potential laborers in exchange for guaranteed food, housing and perhaps income. This would drive competition between companies for high quality laborers, which would drive up the value of skilled and reliable mujina, as well as helping to ensure their good treatment by their employer-owners. It would also allow companies to run entire cities inhabited by their semi-enslaved employees according to their own laws and guarded by legally untouchable private armies. Elon Musk would probably love that. So would Raytheon...

But the author doesn't seem interested in engaging with the philosophical/political implications of their ideas, or in extrapolating from their premises in the manner of thoughtful science fiction. It's all just an excuse for an eccentric battle manga with rambling grumpy-old-man digressions.

Still fun tho

---

* especially "individuals must bear responsibility for the consequences of their choices," and "tax money should not be spent on those who don't contribute to society."
** the idea of selling citizenship does appear in libertarian pipe-dreaming

It's 100% just an excuse, and im not sure whether or not Asano has any intention on tackling the issues that would surround the concept of mujina. The story is progressing a glaciers pace and it feels everything so far has been a a prelude to the actual story. Asano's series have never been quick and i don't this is an exception.

 

[coyote_vdb]

There's not like a single normal male character in this manga.

Terumi looks totally like a normal guy lost in a mad world to me.

 

[Iroboke]

Yeah, I get that aspect. Even in the US, there's constant, heated debate about the value and morality of the social safety net.

Mujina Into the Deep imagines an alternate version of present day Japan, one that has enacted policies which seem to reflect certain key points in conservative philosophy*... But which no serious conservatives have ever advocated** and which don't really make sense. I mean, yes: denying the benefits of citizenship to the least productive members of society would reduce the cost of the safety net. But the approach depicted here would have enormous secondary consequences, many of which would be negative and/or expensive.

One of the most obvious negative consequences would be the creation of a parallel criminal society which cannot be touched by the legal system. The mujina policy would essentially pay people to become outlaws, and the resulting underworld would not be inhabited solely by street kids. It would also include desperate, hardened, powerful and successful criminals: those already committed to living outside the law. As a result of this and the two-way license to kill, conflicts between lawful society and organized crime would likely become much more openly violent.

There's also the question of what use non-criminal mujina would be put by society at large. The most obvious is not "turn the best of them into super assassins", but rather "funnel most of them into a cheap labor force". I could see this actually motivating somewhat similar policies in the real world (the rich and powerful love anything that will cut costs and/or taxes) and appealing to people who would rather have their lives cared for than struggle against late-capitalist Darwinism.

For instance, companies could enter into contracts in which they purchase the citizenship rights of potential laborers in exchange for guaranteed food, housing and perhaps income. This would drive competition between companies for high quality laborers, which would drive up the value of skilled and reliable mujina, as well as helping to ensure their good treatment by their employer-owners. It would also allow companies to run entire cities inhabited by their semi-enslaved employees according to their own laws and guarded by legally untouchable private armies. Elon Musk would probably love that. So would Raytheon...

But the author doesn't seem interested in engaging with the philosophical/political implications of their ideas, or in extrapolating from their premises in the manner of thoughtful science fiction. It's all just an excuse for an eccentric battle manga with rambling grumpy-old-man digressions.

Still fun tho

---

* especially "individuals must bear responsibility for the consequences of their choices," and "tax money should not be spent on those who don't contribute to society."
** the idea of selling citizenship does appear in libertarian pipe-dreaming

For all of this argument’s thoughtfulness and valid points, I believe it completely misses the mark. To wit, Asano is not a policymaker writing a white paper for the American Enterprise Institute, but an artist spinning a yarn on a low-brow, low-circulation magazine with a target demographic of 18-to-35-year-old Japanese males who pick it up at the convenience store while getting lunch; to judge his world-building by the first standard and not the second is a category mistake.

As you said, the creation of a subhuman class of non-citizens makes no logical sense, in that its social costs would outweigh its benefits (though such a policy does seems a bit less farfetched in an era where migrants are put in cages or a self-styled “anarcho-capitalist” president advocates for a free market in human organs.) Nevertheless, I find the idea has powerful emotional resonance: many people are already denied basic human dignity on the basis of their economic or citizenship status, after all, so there is something to be said for exploring such an underclass in narrative fiction.

If the idea feels implausible, that is just the price of entry to engage with the work; suspension of disbelief and all that. Certainly the denial of human rights isn’t as outlandish as, say, the existence of demons (Chainsaw Man) or hundred year old elves (Frieren), and yet I’ve never seen anyone reject those conceits which are central for their respective narratives to function.

I know it feels like forever since the series started, but we are only 12 chapters in. By this point Dededede had no plot to speak of, and that one turned out quite alright.

Spoiler

It’s a lovely parable on the dangers of radicalization and the suffocating experience of living at the mercy of feckless bureaucrats in post 3-11 Japan.

As another poster said, this all feels like set-up and I’m sure the gears will start turning anytime now.

 

[beep_repair]

For all of this argument’s thoughtfulness and valid points, I believe it completely misses the mark. To wit, Asano is not a policymaker writing a white paper for the American Enterprise Institute, but an artist spinning a yarn on a low-brow, low-circulation magazine with a target demographic of 18-to-35-year-old Japanese males who pick it up at the convenience store while getting lunch; to judge his world-building by the first standard and not the second is a category mistake.

As you said, the creation of a subhuman class of non-citizens makes no logical sense, in that its social costs would outweigh its benefits (though such a policy does seems a bit less farfetched in an era where migrants are put in cages or a self-styled “anarcho-capitalist” president advocates for a free market in human organs.) Nevertheless, I find the idea has powerful emotional resonance: many people are already denied basic human dignity on the basis of their economic or citizenship status, after all, so there is something to be said for exploring such an underclass in narrative fiction.

If the idea feels implausible, that is just the price of entry to engage with the work; suspension of disbelief and all that. Certainly the denial of human rights isn’t as outlandish as, say, the existence of demons (Chainsaw Man) or hundred year old elves (Frieren), and yet I’ve never seen anyone reject those conceits which are central for their respective narratives to function.

I know it feels like forever since the series started, but we are only 12 chapters in. By this point Dededede had no plot to speak of, and that one turned out quite alright.

Spoiler

It’s a lovely parable on the dangers of radicalization and the suffocating experience of living at the mercy of feckless bureaucrats in post 3-11 Japan.

As another poster said, this all feels like set-up and I’m sure the gears will start turning anytime now.

I accept that my argument is off the mark relative to the story's aims and function. In my defense, I offered it less as a meaningful critique of Mujina into the Deep than an "old man shakes fist at clouds" gripe. But I got kind of carried away in typing it out, so it wound up seeming more serious than I intended.

Thing is, I write speculative fiction and struggle hard with the implications of my world-building. I struggle as well with my tendency to overthink and overelaborate absolutely everything. So I become incensed when others quite sensibly table that shit. A) Because it's unfair*, and B) because I really want to know! Even if it doesn't matter at all. A symptom, I admit.

That said, I agree that the conceit is both resonant and relevant. No promises, but I'll do my best to keep the fist in check.

---

* why should they get to make rational choices when I can't?