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It's dropped or something?
Munou na Nana - Vol. 3 Ch. 18 - Survival of the Fittest Part 1
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I lost braincells reading this.
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ive read until chapter 53, i think so far by this chapter 18 people just dont like that our mc nana is the villain mc that killing innocents.
i personally like it, i think cold blooded villain mc that is remorseless is refreshing especially in shonen magazine.
i do agree with some of the comments that the plot armor sometimes is sooo convinient.
and then by volume 5 to chapter 53 now i have mixed feelings because our mc become
while it opens up some new plot and background stories, i just miss the early murder mystery 200 iq stuff, i just want a real villain mc like fang yuan, but then i remember this manga is in shounen magazine.
i personally like it, i think cold blooded villain mc that is remorseless is refreshing especially in shonen magazine.
i do agree with some of the comments that the plot armor sometimes is sooo convinient.
and then by volume 5 to chapter 53 now i have mixed feelings because our mc become
A SHOUNEN PROTAGONIST, SHE GOT NAKAMAFIED AND TALK NO JUTSU BY THE HEALER THAT IS DEAD SAVING NANA, NOW NANA REGRETS HER KILLING AND GOVERNMENT BAD AND SHE TRIES TO SAVE THE REST OF THEM NOW
while it opens up some new plot and background stories, i just miss the early murder mystery 200 iq stuff, i just want a real villain mc like fang yuan, but then i remember this manga is in shounen magazine.
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So far, I feel like the pacing of the kills has been really fast. It's a surprise the class didn't react until recently.
With Nana's abilities, it's kind of surprising how much she's been on the defensive. The "Council" or w/e should've assigned backup or something. Even a scout would help at this point.
I do like Nana's reaction faces though. Along with Kyouya's T__T faces.
With Nana's abilities, it's kind of surprising how much she's been on the defensive. The "Council" or w/e should've assigned backup or something. Even a scout would help at this point.
I do like Nana's reaction faces though. Along with Kyouya's T__T faces.
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This has "Council is really the bad guys and they're just using you" written all over it. Either there are bunch of benevolent talent users vs malicious talent users, or there's oemthing in regards to Nana's past. Something is ever so fishy.
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@daxude The issue with real villain mc is that unless its really pushing towards the audiance that there is some moral rightness for their actions, it's incredibly tough to actually fully go behind them. At most you would usually get anti-heroes/anti-villain type leads, but real villains make it incredibly difficult to actually get a lot of popular support around as well as getting actual serialization to actually sign off on it without them going "woah, we don't want to inspire" or something like that.
Fed-Kun's army
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@UnluckyGrape: Exactly. True villain MC's are near impossible to pull off.
The main reason is besides a REALLY niche audience that just like to watch good people suffer most don't like to root for genuinely terrible people. Video Games get away with this a little easier by either creating multiple endings so the bad one is just a "what if" or just making the player entirely responsible for the bad stuff so they don't hate the MC for doing it.
But there are a few other ways writers try to get away with genuinely evil MC.
1. make their opponents even worse so the MC becomes the lesser of two evils. Many "REVENGE" stories take this route with the MC's revenge targets being cartoonishly evil in order to justify the MC killing even innocent people as collateral if it means getting rid of the real monsters. Or at least justify the MC's insanity as being caused by the true evil.
2. Make the MC insane in such an entertaining fashion you kind of enjoy seeing what madness they do next even if it means other characters die. Case in point in the JOKER from Batman. He is obviously evil in 99% of his incarnations but people still tend to like him anyway. They don't root him for, but people still buy comics with the Joker as the MC to get a deep look at his inner madness.
3. They make the MC a lawful evil. Because they still have A moral code audiences can grab onto that and root for the MC even if they are willing to do evil things to accomplish their end goal.
I could go on but I think people get the point.
In Nana's case I think the writers started out trying to make her appealing with the "Lawful Evil" angle as she's evil but is supossedly following a moral code. The PROBLEM though is the very foundation of that moral code is rather flawed and is seemingly contradicted with her first two victims. This was the author's first mitake. Nana's victims should have been murderious psychopaths that deserved to die in order to legitimize her actions in the eyes of the audience. With the good and innocents dying afterwards to establish her willingless to kill anyone and everyone regardless of innocent or threat level.
Because the author did it in the opposite way Nana failed to make a good impression with the audience. Hence why the story couldn't survive without her switching sides as there was no way to get the average reader to side with her actions.
The author's other mistake was establishing from the start that she's doing all this at the council's order. While in theory this would help reduce her guilt and put it on the council it also strips away any hope she had of being LAWFUL EVIL because she has NO morals or rules she acts by ... she's just following someone else's orders and thus there is no apparent personal ethics for the audience to see.
The main reason is besides a REALLY niche audience that just like to watch good people suffer most don't like to root for genuinely terrible people. Video Games get away with this a little easier by either creating multiple endings so the bad one is just a "what if" or just making the player entirely responsible for the bad stuff so they don't hate the MC for doing it.
But there are a few other ways writers try to get away with genuinely evil MC.
1. make their opponents even worse so the MC becomes the lesser of two evils. Many "REVENGE" stories take this route with the MC's revenge targets being cartoonishly evil in order to justify the MC killing even innocent people as collateral if it means getting rid of the real monsters. Or at least justify the MC's insanity as being caused by the true evil.
2. Make the MC insane in such an entertaining fashion you kind of enjoy seeing what madness they do next even if it means other characters die. Case in point in the JOKER from Batman. He is obviously evil in 99% of his incarnations but people still tend to like him anyway. They don't root him for, but people still buy comics with the Joker as the MC to get a deep look at his inner madness.
3. They make the MC a lawful evil. Because they still have A moral code audiences can grab onto that and root for the MC even if they are willing to do evil things to accomplish their end goal.
I could go on but I think people get the point.
In Nana's case I think the writers started out trying to make her appealing with the "Lawful Evil" angle as she's evil but is supossedly following a moral code. The PROBLEM though is the very foundation of that moral code is rather flawed and is seemingly contradicted with her first two victims. This was the author's first mitake. Nana's victims should have been murderious psychopaths that deserved to die in order to legitimize her actions in the eyes of the audience. With the good and innocents dying afterwards to establish her willingless to kill anyone and everyone regardless of innocent or threat level.
Because the author did it in the opposite way Nana failed to make a good impression with the audience. Hence why the story couldn't survive without her switching sides as there was no way to get the average reader to side with her actions.
The author's other mistake was establishing from the start that she's doing all this at the council's order. While in theory this would help reduce her guilt and put it on the council it also strips away any hope she had of being LAWFUL EVIL because she has NO morals or rules she acts by ... she's just following someone else's orders and thus there is no apparent personal ethics for the audience to see.
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@Metazoxan
And its honestly a damn shame because I do like villains, or at least villain perspective stories where it makes a lot of sense. I will say that there has to be a level of prestige and credibly for people to have for a character in reason 2, as I think its only been very recently where people really started to see the Joker as he is now. But I definately agree with all your assments, the fact that she has no real reason other than "council says this", the fact that the kids themselves are just acting like kids, its dubious with the future dude and now shapeshifter, and definetely with the necromancer, and it looked like they might have been going for that part, but now it just feels very forced, especially after she killed false MC who's power was to negate other people powers and we actually got a rather clear idea of his background of some kind painting him as a goodguy.
And its honestly a damn shame because I do like villains, or at least villain perspective stories where it makes a lot of sense. I will say that there has to be a level of prestige and credibly for people to have for a character in reason 2, as I think its only been very recently where people really started to see the Joker as he is now. But I definately agree with all your assments, the fact that she has no real reason other than "council says this", the fact that the kids themselves are just acting like kids, its dubious with the future dude and now shapeshifter, and definetely with the necromancer, and it looked like they might have been going for that part, but now it just feels very forced, especially after she killed false MC who's power was to negate other people powers and we actually got a rather clear idea of his background of some kind painting him as a goodguy.
@UnluckyGrape @Metazoxan eh i read warlock from magus world and reverend insanity, leylin(WMW) and fang yuan(RI) are the best example of true villain MC(not even anti hero) that has no compromise on morals, or even sad backstories to justify their action.
so for me its not impossible for nana to be true villain which i reallllly hope at beginning , but again this is published in shonen magazine lol, reading until chapter 50 something, got all nana backstories, and im very mixed on her being total 180 now, but maybe its just me a niche audience.
in fact i think the people that ranting on nana on beginning chapters will like the development she has now and the reveal on the possible real villain of the series.
so for me its not impossible for nana to be true villain which i reallllly hope at beginning , but again this is published in shonen magazine lol, reading until chapter 50 something, got all nana backstories, and im very mixed on her being total 180 now, but maybe its just me a niche audience.
in fact i think the people that ranting on nana on beginning chapters will like the development she has now and the reveal on the possible real villain of the series.
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@daxude: Unfortunatly for you yeah you're a niche audience. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But "true Villain" stories tend to not appeal to most audiences as most just tend to feel uncomfortable following the MC's actions
Take for example "warlock from magus world" as I've actually read a fair bit of it but had to put it on Hiatus and haven't gotten back to it. The MC is excessively brutal to the point of true madness. Like at one point an old family that used to be famous sends a couple assassins after him, but then he becomes so powerful their entire family combined can't even threaten him ... so he comes and murders every man, woman, child, servant without a single care. It's not even like the family as a whole had done much too him. The mother and daughter did like ... a couple attempts on him. Some people may like that and how the MC makes sure to not leave loose ends. But at the same time his actions are excessive even for typing up loose ends and crossing that line with the same attitude of taking a light stroll will put a lot of readers off.
@UnluckyGrape Yeah it's really odd the author took so much time establishing a false MC and establishing him as a solid good guy only to kill him off so mercilessly. I see what the author was trying to go for but again the problem is the heroine becomes iredeemable in the eyes of much of the reader base taking such action against a character we're grown mildly attached to.
The author should have either had her hesitate and maybe even start to reach for his hand to pull him up but he loses his grip. This way you could get the audience on her side by establishing early that she has humanity but feels driven to complete her mission. ESPECIALLY since she later shows regret over necromancer girl. It's rather unnatural to say "would I have spared her if she was good?" when her first two victims were objectively good people as far as we can tell. Most likely the author threw that line in to make her more appealing ... but it just further proves the author's didn't introduce her properly from the start.
OR
showed some of his backstory to indicate there is a real threat he's choose the path of violent revolution. Like maybe have his grand father be part of the previous revolution of talented users or give him an older sibling that was sent the the island previously and never came back. Maybe even imply he knows the island's real purpose but doesn't realize Nana's a part of it. This way you could still establish her as a bad guy for killing him without even giving him a chance and for almost seducing him just to throw him off a cliff. But she's not irredeemably so as the audience knows that even if he was a good person he was likely to fall to the dark side due to the council's previous actions. In this way she's murdering to protect murderers but you could still at least understand her determination to prevent war even if it means helping bad people to preserve the status quo.
Take for example "warlock from magus world" as I've actually read a fair bit of it but had to put it on Hiatus and haven't gotten back to it. The MC is excessively brutal to the point of true madness. Like at one point an old family that used to be famous sends a couple assassins after him, but then he becomes so powerful their entire family combined can't even threaten him ... so he comes and murders every man, woman, child, servant without a single care. It's not even like the family as a whole had done much too him. The mother and daughter did like ... a couple attempts on him. Some people may like that and how the MC makes sure to not leave loose ends. But at the same time his actions are excessive even for typing up loose ends and crossing that line with the same attitude of taking a light stroll will put a lot of readers off.
@UnluckyGrape Yeah it's really odd the author took so much time establishing a false MC and establishing him as a solid good guy only to kill him off so mercilessly. I see what the author was trying to go for but again the problem is the heroine becomes iredeemable in the eyes of much of the reader base taking such action against a character we're grown mildly attached to.
The author should have either had her hesitate and maybe even start to reach for his hand to pull him up but he loses his grip. This way you could get the audience on her side by establishing early that she has humanity but feels driven to complete her mission. ESPECIALLY since she later shows regret over necromancer girl. It's rather unnatural to say "would I have spared her if she was good?" when her first two victims were objectively good people as far as we can tell. Most likely the author threw that line in to make her more appealing ... but it just further proves the author's didn't introduce her properly from the start.
OR
showed some of his backstory to indicate there is a real threat he's choose the path of violent revolution. Like maybe have his grand father be part of the previous revolution of talented users or give him an older sibling that was sent the the island previously and never came back. Maybe even imply he knows the island's real purpose but doesn't realize Nana's a part of it. This way you could still establish her as a bad guy for killing him without even giving him a chance and for almost seducing him just to throw him off a cliff. But she's not irredeemably so as the audience knows that even if he was a good person he was likely to fall to the dark side due to the council's previous actions. In this way she's murdering to protect murderers but you could still at least understand her determination to prevent war even if it means helping bad people to preserve the status quo.
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