Musket Girls! ~Tensei Sanbou to Senretsu Otome-tachi~ - Vol. 3 Ch. 18 - The Battle of Jarakhud - Part 1

[Kucai]

I already read the raw version a year ago

Spoiler

They are finally going to suffer their first casualty, if I'm not mistaken there will be 3 death and few others who are maimed. As they predicted, the entire campaign was FUBAR

 

[I_eat_Chesse]

 

[ZanHail]

Always look forward to a new chapter to this series the most, but is followed up to reading the comments of people going into detail about all the military stuff.

 

[RogueCitizen64]

So far, it feels like the enemy's army comes from an entirely different era. Like, I can't see how fielding horse archers against gunpowder infantry backed by artillery support is a good idea. Unless of course, they have some artillery of their own.

 

[hahano]

in the 19th page it looks like the cavalry is so close to the infantry formation, but in plains wouldn't they be very visible and be on the receiving end of gun volley before they get that close? also if grapeshots have been invented it'd be very gruesome for the cavalry to get that close

 

[kazaddum]

So far, it feels like the enemy's army comes from an entirely different era. Like, I can't see how fielding horse archers against gunpowder infantry backed by artillery support is a good idea. Unless of course, they have some artillery of their own.

The problem is that horse archers do not have to get all to close. Guns of their era are also just about as accurate as a bow, much more lethal tho.

 

[Dexmangnata]

Always look forward to a new chapter to this series the most, but is followed up to reading the comments of people going into detail about all the military stuff.

It’s a good sign since it means the series have substance.

 

[skeleton637]

When you look over the French invasion of Russia the casualty numbers are crazy. 40% casualties on the big fights, around 80% losses over the length of the campaign. In smaller battles of around 50,000 your numbers dropped to around 15%.

The battle of Lexington at the start of the Revolutionary war saw 6,500 shooting at each other over 40 miles and 8 hours and only produced around 340 dead and wounded, around 5% losses.

Volley fire into other lines of troopers is crazy...

 

[Boomburst]

So far, it feels like the enemy's army comes from an entirely different era. Like, I can't see how fielding horse archers against gunpowder infantry backed by artillery support is a good idea. Unless of course, they have some artillery of their own.

Cavalry IRL was used into the 20th century. They stopped being a relevant fighting force during WWI when automatic weapons made it much easier to hit them, and usage of trenches and artillery basically made it hell for horses to move on the battlefield.
Hell, the US was the last the "retire" cavalry in that sense when they did a final charge in the Philippines in 1942.

 

[RanmaChaos]

Thanks for the chapter!

 

[RogueCitizen64]

The problem is that horse archers do not have to get all to close. Guns of their era are also just about as accurate as a bow, much more lethal tho.

Not when the numerically superior infantry employs massed volley fire.

The only way I can see the horse archers winning is by using their superior mobility to cut the supply lines and wear the infantry down; I suspect that is exactly what the enemy intends to do

Cavalry IRL was used into the 20th century. They stopped being a relevant fighting force during WWI when automatic weapons made it much easier to hit them, and usage of trenches and artillery basically made it hell for horses to move on the battlefield.
Hell, the US was the last the "retire" cavalry in that sense when they did a final charge in the Philippines in 1942.

At that point, cavalry played only a supportive role, mostly in reconnaissance and logistics; their only combat role was as shock cavalry. The era of armies being built around horse archers using hit-and-run tactics had ended centuries ago.

 

[xzenocrimzie]

So far, it feels like the enemy's army comes from an entirely different era. Like, I can't see how fielding horse archers against gunpowder infantry backed by artillery support is a good idea. Unless of course, they have some artillery of their own.

The effectiveness of cannon shot is much greater against lines of infantry, especially the field guns that are around 80mm as depicted here. The skirmisher horse archers that are being fielded by Kionis are less likely to be subject to enfilade fire, making them less effective. Each canon shot would only be able to actually hit 1-2 cavalrymen before it loses all its kinetic energy.
As well it must be said that even in the gunpowder era, skilled bowmen can still be effective and lethal weapons of war. Our lovely Kromberz is correct in fearing them, as a few thousand horse archers in a quite loose charge can easily disrupt lines of infantry. The thing to remember about combat in this era and earlier eras is that it is largely dictated by morale rather than actual losses on the field. Formations will collapse and retreat long before they've taken significant casualties because, as you might imagine, standing in a line waiting your turn to get shot is not really the idea of fun. Neither of which is being told to stand in a line and wait for your turn to have a 1000lb war horse trample you. Arrows do kill, and skilled archers can do a lot against gunpowder since they have the advantage of volume of fire even if their range is poor compared to muskets. Once they close in, considering their trample, one horse archer could hit at 10-20 line infantry or beyond, which would make this battle very heavily in favour of Kionis.
Especially against a formation as stupid as the one they're facing. I think that the manga author made the mistake of organizing the formation in the wrong direction, because if the formation is echeloned to the left from front to back as the tactical map portrays, then the archers would be shooting to their left, which is the optimal direction for the archers. They talk about it in this chapter even, that it would make more sense for the echelon to be to the right, because then the horse archers are shooting to their bad side. I think it's intended to be the other way since that's what the dialogue is saying.
Now if the field guns did have grape shot or chain shot, that would be a different story. But since they haven't been mentioned it's likely that they either haven't been invented in this world yet, or the author didn't include them for purpose of brevity and pacing. After all, narratively they have to lose this battle, and any opportunity that they could have for victory is moot because Duchess Ritreille has intended this war to go very VERY badly for Schweidel.

 

[RogueCitizen64]

The effectiveness of cannon shot is much greater against lines of infantry, especially the field guns that are around 80mm as depicted here. The skirmisher horse archers that are being fielded by Kionis are less likely to be subject to enfilade fire, making them less effective. Each canon shot would only be able to actually hit 1-2 cavalrymen before it loses all its kinetic energy.
As well it must be said that even in the gunpowder era, skilled bowmen can still be effective and lethal weapons of war. Our lovely Kromberz is correct in fearing them, as a few thousand horse archers in a quite loose charge can easily disrupt lines of infantry. The thing to remember about combat in this era and earlier eras is that it is largely dictated by morale rather than actual losses on the field. Formations will collapse and retreat long before they've taken significant casualties because, as you might imagine, standing in a line waiting your turn to get shot is not really the idea of fun. Neither of which is being told to stand in a line and wait for your turn to have a 1000lb war horse trample you. Arrows do kill, and skilled archers can do a lot against gunpowder since they have the advantage of volume of fire even if their range is poor compared to muskets. Once they close in, considering their trample, one horse archer could hit at 10-20 line infantry or beyond, which would make this battle very heavily in favour of Kionis.
Especially against a formation as stupid as the one they're facing. I think that the manga author made the mistake of organizing the formation in the wrong direction, because if the formation is echeloned to the left from front to back as the tactical map portrays, then the archers would be shooting to their left, which is the optimal direction for the archers. They talk about it in this chapter even, that it would make more sense for the echelon to be to the right, because then the horse archers are shooting to their bad side. I think it's intended to be the other way since that's what the dialogue is saying.
Now if the field guns did have grape shot or chain shot, that would be a different story. But since they haven't been mentioned it's likely that they either haven't been invented in this world yet, or the author didn't include them for purpose of brevity and pacing. After all, narratively they have to lose this battle, and any opportunity that they could have for victory is moot because Duchess Ritreille has intended this war to go very VERY badly for Schweidel.

I agree regarding the effectiveness of artillery; it is why I noted that the outcome would most likely change if the enemy brought their own cannons to the field.

The echelon formation is not stupid; it is simply uninspired and requires a small retinue of cavalry to prevent harassment when repositioning. Against an opposition that is inferior in numbers and firepower but far more mobile, it effective at preventing encirclement because the staggered blocks can cover different sectors of fire should the horse archer divide into smaller wings.

Knowing that they lack mobility, the most effective strategy for the enemy would be to use their speed solely for harassment while bombarding the enemy’s dense formations with artillery of their own rather than act as shock troops and charge directly into their lines.

 

[ridesdragons]

The effectiveness of cannon shot is much greater against lines of infantry, especially the field guns that are around 80mm as depicted here. The skirmisher horse archers that are being fielded by Kionis are less likely to be subject to enfilade fire, making them less effective. Each canon shot would only be able to actually hit 1-2 cavalrymen before it loses all its kinetic energy.
As well it must be said that even in the gunpowder era, skilled bowmen can still be effective and lethal weapons of war. Our lovely Kromberz is correct in fearing them, as a few thousand horse archers in a quite loose charge can easily disrupt lines of infantry. The thing to remember about combat in this era and earlier eras is that it is largely dictated by morale rather than actual losses on the field. Formations will collapse and retreat long before they've taken significant casualties because, as you might imagine, standing in a line waiting your turn to get shot is not really the idea of fun. Neither of which is being told to stand in a line and wait for your turn to have a 1000lb war horse trample you. Arrows do kill, and skilled archers can do a lot against gunpowder since they have the advantage of volume of fire even if their range is poor compared to muskets. Once they close in, considering their trample, one horse archer could hit at 10-20 line infantry or beyond, which would make this battle very heavily in favour of Kionis.
Especially against a formation as stupid as the one they're facing. I think that the manga author made the mistake of organizing the formation in the wrong direction, because if the formation is echeloned to the left from front to back as the tactical map portrays, then the archers would be shooting to their left, which is the optimal direction for the archers. They talk about it in this chapter even, that it would make more sense for the echelon to be to the right, because then the horse archers are shooting to their bad side. I think it's intended to be the other way since that's what the dialogue is saying.
Now if the field guns did have grape shot or chain shot, that would be a different story. But since they haven't been mentioned it's likely that they either haven't been invented in this world yet, or the author didn't include them for purpose of brevity and pacing. After all, narratively they have to lose this battle, and any opportunity that they could have for victory is moot because Duchess Ritreille has intended this war to go very VERY badly for Schweidel.

it's not that they're forcing the horsemen to aim with their bad side, it's that they're forcing the horsemen between choosing to aim with their good side but run the long way against the front of the enemy with superior numbers and ultimately get wiped out before they can even reach a flank, or forgo aiming with their good side to actually pull off an easy flank, but be far less effective at doing so. both options put them at a notable disadcantage. that's why the echelon is tapered the way it's shown in the diagram. it's tapered correctly.

with this formation, if they move left, they can shoot, sure, but only at the front of a long line of infantry, which is rather ineffective, and they'll get wiped out from superior firepower/numbers. if they move right, they struggle to shoot and are thus exposed to counter-attacks. so moving left is the better option, but will result in the cavalry getting annihilated.

the problem is that, if they do choose to go right for the easy flank, you need something to counter that - like the 2k cavalry they threw away because the commander is an idiot. in other words, the enemy cav was not nearly disincentivized from going for the easy flank as they should have been given the strategy. they have no counter-attack to punish the cavalry with, and are therefor easy pickings instead.

 

[Tanmoy1945]

I wonder why, the army didnt use spikes and or made of wood walls, i cant remember the name, but they were commonly used as a weak shield, just to hide, reload, be safe of arrows and peak to shoot again

That's the whole point their commander is a fool to use such a formation in the first place.

 

[MagnaDrake]

I highly doubt there wont be any casualties this time…

The previous chapters showed us a death flag. That is all I will say.

 

[chemy1347]

The effectiveness of cannon shot is much greater against lines of infantry, especially the field guns that are around 80mm as depicted here. The skirmisher horse archers that are being fielded by Kionis are less likely to be subject to enfilade fire, making them less effective. Each canon shot would only be able to actually hit 1-2 cavalrymen before it loses all its kinetic energy.
As well it must be said that even in the gunpowder era, skilled bowmen can still be effective and lethal weapons of war. Our lovely Kromberz is correct in fearing them, as a few thousand horse archers in a quite loose charge can easily disrupt lines of infantry. The thing to remember about combat in this era and earlier eras is that it is largely dictated by morale rather than actual losses on the field. Formations will collapse and retreat long before they've taken significant casualties because, as you might imagine, standing in a line waiting your turn to get shot is not really the idea of fun. Neither of which is being told to stand in a line and wait for your turn to have a 1000lb war horse trample you. Arrows do kill, and skilled archers can do a lot against gunpowder since they have the advantage of volume of fire even if their range is poor compared to muskets. Once they close in, considering their trample, one horse archer could hit at 10-20 line infantry or beyond, which would make this battle very heavily in favour of Kionis.
Especially against a formation as stupid as the one they're facing. I think that the manga author made the mistake of organizing the formation in the wrong direction, because if the formation is echeloned to the left from front to back as the tactical map portrays, then the archers would be shooting to their left, which is the optimal direction for the archers. They talk about it in this chapter even, that it would make more sense for the echelon to be to the right, because then the horse archers are shooting to their bad side. I think it's intended to be the other way since that's what the dialogue is saying.
Now if the field guns did have grape shot or chain shot, that would be a different story. But since they haven't been mentioned it's likely that they either haven't been invented in this world yet, or the author didn't include them for purpose of brevity and pacing. After all, narratively they have to lose this battle, and any opportunity that they could have for victory is moot because Duchess Ritreille has intended this war to go very VERY badly for Schweidel.

Small correction, grapeshot was used in the secondary fort defense against Bruges. If theyre not used in this battle, most likely because logistics, or because Marshal Zitface is dumb

But yes, narratively we're losing the King's colors with this campaign.

 

[BanzaiYuri]

Praying Lela doesn't die, even if she's just forced to retire from injuries, I don't want any Musket Girl to die. I'm okay even with a 400% casualty rate, so long as they're only injuries.

 

[Alex_79]

"Well, sir, on first sighting the new chapter, I naturally gave it a read. That's my style, sir."

Major Krombertz reports a few losses:

• First you lost your head and went to fight with your cavalry in a city
• then you lost your nerve and crumbled in the face of the Kionis cavalry
• then you lost your honor and left your units to fend for themselves
• Major Krombertz saves the worst loss for last, you lost your subordinates

My guess of how this ends: I wonder if Zichtberg has more sense of honor than Lord Simmerson

 

[kuzunagi13]

incompetent allies are scarier than competent foes

This is a good example of it