Nadeshiko Changes - Vol. 1 Ch. 3 - Protector of the Family
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😅 two chapters let just enjoy it till the end xD
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@mommunism: Ok, lets begin with boag. He is complaining about the logic behind "its not hentai because its published in an official publication". First of all, no one said nothing anything about "officials publications", the only thing that was said is that this series isnt published in a hentai magazine, which is true. Its published in a seinen magazine, which makes it seinen. Its as easy as that. You can have your own opinion but the FACT is that the demographic genre of a series is decided by the magazine publishing it. Its like lots of years ago when people said "Oh, Fullmetal Alchemist feels like its seinen but is tagged as shonen, why?" Easy, because it was published in a shonen magazine.
Then, about what you are saying about this being more sex oriented than some hentais and where the distinction lie. This manga is easy to know its not hentai because there are no genitals. Normally bordenline-H mangas like Rakujitsu no Pathos, Velvet Kiss or Nozoki Ana have the genitals erased (that white censorship). This doesnt even need that censorship because it directly doesnt depict genitals.
And even if it shows genitals its not sure that is gonna be hentai. For example check this chapter and the next one:
https://mangadex.org/chapter/99198/1
This series is WAAAAAAY more explicit that the one we are discussing about and, even if its hard to believe, its not hentai too. Why? because the publishers have decided to not list it as such. Again, its not about what your or my opinion, its about the fact that its someone else who decides it.
@yukichigai: Well, there sure is a problem with that 1.9.1, because there are series like Futari Ecchi where 99% of their plot is about sex and its not hentai.
Then, about what you are saying about this being more sex oriented than some hentais and where the distinction lie. This manga is easy to know its not hentai because there are no genitals. Normally bordenline-H mangas like Rakujitsu no Pathos, Velvet Kiss or Nozoki Ana have the genitals erased (that white censorship). This doesnt even need that censorship because it directly doesnt depict genitals.
And even if it shows genitals its not sure that is gonna be hentai. For example check this chapter and the next one:
https://mangadex.org/chapter/99198/1
This series is WAAAAAAY more explicit that the one we are discussing about and, even if its hard to believe, its not hentai too. Why? because the publishers have decided to not list it as such. Again, its not about what your or my opinion, its about the fact that its someone else who decides it.
@yukichigai: Well, there sure is a problem with that 1.9.1, because there are series like Futari Ecchi where 99% of their plot is about sex and its not hentai.
@Tearsax I wasn't saying that his logic actually was flawless, but you seemed to not even understand where he was coming from and the difference between what he said and what you're saying is just a pedantic one that could've easily been inferred from the context of his comment. I don't see how it being published in a seinen mag makes it not hentai. Like you said, seinen is a demographic, and hentai isn't. Why would they be mutually exclusive?
Plenty of hentai doesn't show genitals explicitly, and I don't understand how you can value that distinction as solidly genre-defining when they're censored where they are shown anyways, especially because many authors choose to censor them naturally (i.e. with steam, leaves, or like this one does, by just positioning the characters right). I don't think your appeal to authority with the publishers is a valuable point at all. Would you have just accepted it if the publishers called this sci-fi? Obviously not. They aren't the end-all be-all arbiters of something as subjective as genre, they just set precedent.
Plenty of hentai doesn't show genitals explicitly, and I don't understand how you can value that distinction as solidly genre-defining when they're censored where they are shown anyways, especially because many authors choose to censor them naturally (i.e. with steam, leaves, or like this one does, by just positioning the characters right). I don't think your appeal to authority with the publishers is a valuable point at all. Would you have just accepted it if the publishers called this sci-fi? Obviously not. They aren't the end-all be-all arbiters of something as subjective as genre, they just set precedent.
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Well EBA sensei style is quit unique. Proportion wise, it's not bad but also not perfect. But his tralalala scene is quite great based on his other doujin. And here i'm still wondering why it's not tag as hentai thou because this almost hentai doujin rather than just a normal manga...
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@mommunism: manga magazines in Japan are listed like this:
- Kodomo: targeted to kids of both genres.
- Shonen: targeted to male teens.
- Shojo: targeted to female teens.
- Seinen: targeted to male adults.
- Josei: targeted to female adults.
- Hentai: porn magazines targeted to adults of both genres.
The magazine where its published determines it genre, demographic or however you wanna call it, i dont mind. People can or cant like it, it doesnt matter, its how it works. Something cant be seinen AND hentai at the same time. Its not an opinion, its a fact. Accepting it or not wont change the outcome.
But you gotta understand that this is all from Japan and how they catalog manga. In internet things are... different. There are lots and lots of sites where you can read: Fox, Reader, Nelo, Dex, Park, Kiss, Rock or find infor: ANN, MAL, M-U... In some of those pages you will find series tagged as seinen while being tagged (or not uploaded) as hentai in another page, but thats all from "our" western point-of-view, opinion and whatnot.
And about what you said that "plenty of hentai doesnt show genitals explicitly", well... Show me a hentai manga published in the last 10 or so years where there are no genitals or have been "naturally censored" with leaves, steams or whatever you like.
- Kodomo: targeted to kids of both genres.
- Shonen: targeted to male teens.
- Shojo: targeted to female teens.
- Seinen: targeted to male adults.
- Josei: targeted to female adults.
- Hentai: porn magazines targeted to adults of both genres.
The magazine where its published determines it genre, demographic or however you wanna call it, i dont mind. People can or cant like it, it doesnt matter, its how it works. Something cant be seinen AND hentai at the same time. Its not an opinion, its a fact. Accepting it or not wont change the outcome.
But you gotta understand that this is all from Japan and how they catalog manga. In internet things are... different. There are lots and lots of sites where you can read: Fox, Reader, Nelo, Dex, Park, Kiss, Rock or find infor: ANN, MAL, M-U... In some of those pages you will find series tagged as seinen while being tagged (or not uploaded) as hentai in another page, but thats all from "our" western point-of-view, opinion and whatnot.
And about what you said that "plenty of hentai doesnt show genitals explicitly", well... Show me a hentai manga published in the last 10 or so years where there are no genitals or have been "naturally censored" with leaves, steams or whatever you like.
@Tearsax Aside from plenty of artbooks like g/265742 and weird shit like g/264314, there's stuff like g/266853 and a large portion of the skinsuit genre, if you count that.
What you're saying about the magazine types doesn't seem like it could possibly be true for the entire market and when looking it up I can't find hentai specifically as a demographic anywhere. Either way, you're appealing to authority, like I said, which is a fallacy by definition, and if you're telling me that seinen is defined as male adult-targeted content and hentai is general adult-targeted content you're only making your own argument (that they're mutually exclusive) even harder to justify. You calling it a fact that something can't be both is literally the dumbest take I've seen in this entire thread. It's definitional, of fucking course it's subjective. If you want to define hentai as "only what's published in magazines that explicity qualify themselves as hentai" then you're free to do so, but nobody else does this so it's pointless. This definition excludes a wide myriad of content that everybody else considers hentai, including, for example, twitter artists. If this is how you choose to define the word you're honestly just far too ignorant on the subject of genres to engage in this conversation. This is my last comment.
What you're saying about the magazine types doesn't seem like it could possibly be true for the entire market and when looking it up I can't find hentai specifically as a demographic anywhere. Either way, you're appealing to authority, like I said, which is a fallacy by definition, and if you're telling me that seinen is defined as male adult-targeted content and hentai is general adult-targeted content you're only making your own argument (that they're mutually exclusive) even harder to justify. You calling it a fact that something can't be both is literally the dumbest take I've seen in this entire thread. It's definitional, of fucking course it's subjective. If you want to define hentai as "only what's published in magazines that explicity qualify themselves as hentai" then you're free to do so, but nobody else does this so it's pointless. This definition excludes a wide myriad of content that everybody else considers hentai, including, for example, twitter artists. If this is how you choose to define the word you're honestly just far too ignorant on the subject of genres to engage in this conversation. This is my last comment.
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@MavB_Ver: Things like what you are talking about are things the author has to use because magazine restrictions. Its pretty standard to redraw those scenes without silly censorship like leaves or undraw nipples when the manga its sold in its volume version.
@mommunism: There seems to be a misunderstanding. Not one of those galleries you mentioned is hentai, they are doujins. Doujins are self-published works, that means the author is the one doing all the work, from drawing to publishing it. In other words, there isnt a publishing editorial behind it. Its the same difference there is between web novels and light novels.
Yeah, most doujins are hentai works, which make lots of people think that "doujinshi" is how you call "hentai manga", but thats a misunderstanding. Not all doujins are hentai, like for example the ones you mentioned.
Well known mangas like Molester Man or Onani Master Kurosawa are actually doujins.
- Seinen: targeted to male adults.
- Hentai: porn magazines targeted to adults of both genres.
Its pretty different from what you are saying. Think about, for example, some games. There are PEGI 18 games because of their brutal violence and other PEGI 18 games because they are porn games. Both are restricted to adults. Same happens between seinen and hentai.
@mommunism: There seems to be a misunderstanding. Not one of those galleries you mentioned is hentai, they are doujins. Doujins are self-published works, that means the author is the one doing all the work, from drawing to publishing it. In other words, there isnt a publishing editorial behind it. Its the same difference there is between web novels and light novels.
Yeah, most doujins are hentai works, which make lots of people think that "doujinshi" is how you call "hentai manga", but thats a misunderstanding. Not all doujins are hentai, like for example the ones you mentioned.
Well known mangas like Molester Man or Onani Master Kurosawa are actually doujins.
No. Re-read what i said:
- Seinen: targeted to male adults.
- Hentai: porn magazines targeted to adults of both genres.
Its pretty different from what you are saying. Think about, for example, some games. There are PEGI 18 games because of their brutal violence and other PEGI 18 games because they are porn games. Both are restricted to adults. Same happens between seinen and hentai.
Again with thinking that opinions are more important than actual facts... Following your train of thought, if, for example, you had something white and everyone else begins saying its black, then even if its a "fact" that its white, its all pointless because the "opinions" of others are more important. Is that it? Whoa, talk about dumb takes...
That someone who ignores how things are and prefers to redefine them as he would like them to be calls someone else "ignorant" isnt only the dumbest but also the funniest take i've seen in this entire thread. Git gud, scrub.
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"You shoukd understand by now that this is all about fixing busty sister's massive daddy issues."
With his DICK.
With his DICK.
