Eh, the corpses are around a feeding tray and the box shown says "down with one bite", I don't think the author really envisioned it to be Tiggy arriving hours later or understood the specifics of real rat poison.
Neko no Te datte Yaku ni Tatsu - Ch. 178 - Nothing to be Done
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What shit hand? They took it upon themselves to kill a shitload of cats because they found them annoying. They aren't city officials dealing with a rabies problem, nor are they protecting endangered birds.Yeah, they could just not have known. The guys are clearly dealing with the shit hand they've been dealt, and clearly haven't put immense thought into the exact details of killing a large number of animals. Probably just figured out a sure-fire way to kill them, picked the most obvious animal poison, and then just waited. If it's really as nasty as you say, you still really can't blame them all that much. It's not like they could just go to their neighbors like "Hey, really want to kill things. You know how to kill lots of things quickly?"
I know a lot of people hate cats and enjoy making up excuses to kill and hurt them but it's still surprising to see so many comments from such people here, following a series about cats.
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Found them anno- brother, have you ever been near the crazy cat lady's house? It's a disgusting wretched hive of cat piss and shit. The structure can be smelled from at least the sidewalk, the area is full of dead birds, and there a bunch of clearly-sick, injured, malnourished, and otherwise-miserable cats roaming up and down amidst the garbage. It's a health hazard for the people, the cats are miserable, and it's a blight on the neighborhood. Now the cats lost the only thing sustaining their artificially-high numbers.
The only issue that exists here is the non-zero chance that these cats either were bakeneko, or could become bakeneko.
I genuinely have no idea where you are getting any of this. They were living in a park. I have seen parks that stray cats live in, they are normal parks.
To humor you, let's pretend that they were being abused by a pet hoarder instead of living in a park. The moral solution to dealing with pet hoarders is to confiscate the pets and redistribute them or humanely euthanize them. Not fucking kill them with rat poison because "lol it would be too hard to simply NOT go out of your way to kill a bunch of cats", as you previously argued.
The two cats currently in my house are both from a (relatively mild) pet hoarder and I certainly can't say I would "not blame" (again a charming quote from you) anyone who killed them as slowly as possible with rat poison.
I have a question for you: Is there an excuse for killing cats that is so flimsy and trivial that even you would not supporting killing an indefinite amount of cats as painfully as possible over it? Like, can you imagine a scenario involving cats in which a person would not be justified in killing all of the cats as painfully as possible? I'm just curious.
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Huh? No? Did you see a couple of trees and think that was a park? That's the woman's house.
Why? Is it really so hard to deal with things on their own terms? Why do we have to talk about cat parks, or animal hoarders? Why can't just just talk about the cat lady in the neighborhood feeding a colony of feral cats?
They already called the shelter. Killing the cats was the alternative. Which they did.
It's become painfully obvious that you're not actually arguing with me here. You may or may not have suffered some cat-related issue in your life, and this is just a chance for you to vent your frustrations at me. I'm not your mom, dad, neighbor, or whoever else may or may not have killed whatever cat you might have been attached to.
When you decide you want to talk to me and not whoever it is you're arguing with in your head, you message me again. I'm done here.
I'm not necessarily blaming the workers themselves, there's a decent chance they're just the random unlucky people that were given the task by the local council or whatever. But someone is responsible for setting that situation up, and whoever that is really deserves whatever they have coming from their local youkai friends . . .Yeah, they could just not have known. The guys are clearly dealing with the shit hand they've been dealt, and clearly haven't put immense thought into the exact details of killing a large number of animals. Probably just figured out a sure-fire way to kill them, picked the most obvious animal poison, and then just waited. If it's really as nasty as you say, you still really can't blame them all that much. It's not like they could just go to their neighbors like "Hey, really want to kill things. You know how to kill lots of things quickly?
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No? These are her grandkids. This whole bit isn't exactly hard to follow, you know. 🤨
Grandma dies, stray cat colony lost its food source, and her grandchildren deal with the cat infestation she left behind. Shelter wouldn't deal with the cats, so they deal with the cats themselves.
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Not her grandkids. Read the last chapter carefully. "Hey, is this okay? Aren't these that granny's pet cats?"
"That granny", not "granny". Even if it did just say granny, that doesn't mean anything in a manga since granny is just what you casually call old women in Japan. Same with grampa, uncle, aunt, brother, and sister. They refer to anyone of certain ages and genders as well as family members.
Obligatory "this bit isn't hard to follow". You probably shouldn't have added that.
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A quick reminder that the guy doing the translations for this manga isn't actually all that great with Japanese and/or English, and has, and continues, to make up lines too. Just because I didn't jump down his throat for the latest shaky translation doesn't mean he did the job right.
The raw line was:
なあ、本当にいいのかよ。これはばあちゃんの飼い猫でしょう～? -> Hey, is this really ok? Aren't these grandma's pet cats?
It wouldn't make sense on several levels for this line to be directed at a stranger. The first, and most obvious reason being that he called her ばあちゃん (baa-chan), which suggests strongly that they were close. You don't talk to, or about, strangers so casually. Not only did he not give it the respectful お prefix, he gave it the -chan honorific, which is reserved for females you're close with. Not to mention there was no "that" in the sentence. So even if they didn't actually get along, and the guy's being rude, he didn't talk about the woman like she's an outsider, as one properly would when talking about some lady you've only heard of, yet got stuck cleaning up after.
FURTHERMORE, おばさん (Oba-san) and おばあさん (Obaa-san) are not the same thing. The former is a middle-aged woman, and, depending on the kanji, an aunt, while the latter is a grandma. Same goes for おじさん (Oji-san) and おじいさん (Ojii-san). It's all actually slightly more complicated than that, though not by too much.
Shocking how much goes on in one sentence, eh?
I agree, it's all pretty simple. But noting that you took the TL's specific use of words to heart, I can't blame you for misunderstanding nearly as much as I blame the guy for doing a bad job. You're the reader; it's not your job to read past the translation and absorb the story through a psychic link with the author.
You get a gold star for worrying about the story as it was presented. Keep it up, and consider this an official retraction.
EDIT: Never mind. You weren't the guy I originally said that to. I retract nothing!
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I admit to not knowing a ton of Japanese, but I’ve been proofreading manga for over 12 years and I can tell you for sure that ”Obaa-san” does not imply at ALL that they were related, just that they were semi-close. Very few age-related pronouns in Japanese are dedicated for familial usage. Unless you’re also going to say that “kanojo” always means girlfriend, or that “onee-san” and “onii-san” are also family only?
The most likely scenario is that these are some neighbors or family friends who were close to the old lady that passed. The cats were not her pets, they were strays that she was feeding. The chapter doesn’t even say whether the cats are in a park or in her yard, and this flashback is never mentioned again. There is 0 other context regarding the familial relation of these random dudes, so you can’t make any clear assumptions from a single word, let alone base a whole rant off of it.
Maybe you should look at your own assumptions and double check your own understanding of Japanese before trying to criticize others.
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Hey, don't worry! Thankfully, I can make up for your lack of Japanese knowledge by pointing out that I already explained a use case where they were just government workers who got stuck with it (Because that was the original issue). I too concluded that these people were personally close to the woman, and didn't didn't go out of my way to add a whole convoluted backstory about how they're actually family friends who took it upon themselves to trespass on private property and kill cats because of neighbor's complaints (Because why would they be getting the complaints anyway?).
If you read closely, you'll see I even told him "It's all actually slightly more complicated than that, though not by too much.", implying that this isn't really the whole picture, but he's gotten enough of the idea for the purposes.
I don't see how you find it more likely that neighbors and/or family friends were receiving complaints about some lady's feral cat colony and not, say, her children, who would likely visit the place after her passing.
Are you informing me of this? I know. Unlike you, I do "know a ton of Japanese". Thanks.
It's clearly her yard. The focus on the neighbor's complaining, the lack of play equipment, the fact that it's an old lady who hasn't been stated, or implied, to be making cat feeding pilgrimages...
Me:
You:
Also you:
I know the language isn't exactly easy at times, but going off on tangents like this isn't helping you understand the story. He called her ばあちゃん, that either means it's grandma or these young men, for whatever reason, got so close close to some strange old lady, that they refer to her as such, the neighbors feel they're the ones to direct their complaints to, and feel they either have the right to step on her property after her death, or feel so responsible for her cat colony that they'd go out of their way to go to the park and exterminate them, despite the risk of poisoning children.
Which of these has more support?
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You didn't conclude they were close, you concluded that they must be family. That's not how Japanese age-related pronouns work, and to state so is to misinform everybody reading your post.
I would assume so because a single "obaa-chan" is the only familial word used to reference her. Otherwise, they seem fairly indifferent to the situation at hand, other than the argument over not being comfortable with actually killing cats. They very well could be her children or grandchildren, but it's up for interpretation and I've gone with mine. That's kinda the whole point of my post.
You sure? Because based on your post it seems you don't know some basics.
There are a ton of bushes and trees, and we see no evidence of any buildings anywhere (not the old lady's or the roofs of neighbors peeking over the wall) in any of the shots. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Japanese suburbs, but a house with a yard like that would be rare and extremely expensive. Additionally, people (A) like going to the park and (B) may walk through the park on their way to other places like the Konbini. The grandma could have been feeding the cats in the park the same way people feed ducks/geese here. The neighbors could be complaining about seeing and smelling stray cats every time they go around or through the park.
Again, you are saying something is a hard and clear "fact" with very little evidence to support your claim. You are making something up and then criticizing others for not making the same assumptions you are.
1. None of this helps you "understand the story". I already mentioned that the dialogue and men in this scene are completely irrelevant to the story and aren't brought up again, except as a generalized statement about Tiggy's past
2. You don't have to be super close to an older person to call them that, just relatively close. This is depicted quite often in literally any form of Japanese media. The only reason we know they're even somewhat close is the changing of "-san" to "-chan".
3. We have no proof that the neighbors are complaining directly to them, just that the neighbors are making complaints in general and they have heard about it. If they were close to the old lady, then chances are on them also being part of the neighborhood, and thus being the reason they're doing it. Taking matters into their own hands after hearing complaints spread around.
4. Again, your assumption is that it's the old lady's property, but there is no evidence of that being the case.
5. There is no risk of poisoning children. They poisoned cat food which they then fed to the cats that were used to being fed from a human. Very minimal poison would be used, and it would be extremely easy to clean up afterward.
They could be her children or grandchildren, but they could also not be. You calling people idiots because you're treating your own assumptions as facts is really funny. Especially since you claim to know so much about Japanese and yet your assumptions are based off of false knowledge.
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It was a whole paragraph, brother. Followed by:
Meaning that that wasn't everything. Are you sure you're a proofreader?
Here's a summary of the logical thread regarding the use of familial and honorific terms in the translation of the Japanese phrase:
- Familiarity Indicated by Language: The original Japanese line includes the term "ばあちゃん" (baa-chan), which is a familiar and affectionate way to refer to a grandmother or an elderly woman, suggesting a close relationship. The use of "chan," a diminutive honorific typically reserved for someone familiar or endearing, supports this.
- Lack of Formality: The absence of a respectful prefix like "お" (o) before "ばあちゃん" and the choice of "chan" further indicate that the speaker is either very familiar with the woman or speaking in a deliberately casual or potentially disrespectful manner. This is not the tone one would use for a stranger or someone known only distantly.
- Implications of Closeness: Referring to someone as "ばあちゃん" without a distancing term like "that" in English ("that granny") implies a direct and personal relationship. The translation did not include "that," which supports the interpretation of a close or personal connection, rather than speaking about a third party who is a stranger.
- Differentiating Terms of Address: The discussion also clarifies the distinction between "おばさん" (Oba-san) and "おばあさん" (Obaa-san), noting that these terms refer to women of different age groups ("middle-aged woman" versus "grandmother"). This distinction is crucial for understanding the subtleties of respect and relationship implied by each term.
- Cultural and Linguistic Nuances: The explanation highlights the importance of understanding Japanese honorifics and terms of address, which provide essential cues about relationships, respect, and familiarity in Japanese language and culture.
Baa-chan. Obaa-chan implies they're not as close.
I'm not sure what you're expecting. You say they're indifferent... except for the part where they're not. Did you expect a long, touching speech about how much they miss grandma?
If you hear such clear explanations for all this and insist on going with some wild, unsupported alternative story, I don't know that I'd trust you to review my projects, I'll say that.
No offense, but I don't think the guy that admits to "not knowing a ton of Japanese" is really qualified to evaluate the quality of a translation.
So are transfer students. Yet they happen all the time. I don't know how appealing to "rareness" in the context of a fictional work makes sense. Old people stereotypically have these kinds of homes. Either old people, or "clan"-type families. And if you want to complain that we didn't literally pan around to show her house, by that logic, we didn't see a swing set, so all we've got is the simplest explanation being the most likely. Because, you know, the author isn't trying to set up any more than she absolutely must, and she'd go with the simplest setting.
If you don't care about the story, then I'm just leaving it at this. There's nothing to talk about if we talk about some part of the story, and the answer I get is "It doesn't matter!".
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Your reading comprehension score is in the negatives. I implore you to re-read my posts before making more rants that argue against points I am not making. Maybe the reading comprehension is why somebody who isn't fluent in Japanese is teaching you basics about the language?
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I'm very clear on the point you're making: The fact that, strictly speaking, they didn't wax poetic about the fact that this is their biological grandmother, in your mind, makes it likely that these people are not, in fact, her grandchildren, and instead, close family friends of some sort. You also believe that this is likely a park, since you think a property with greenery like that is rare, and thus unlikely to appear in a fictional story. I tell you that your interpretation has a series of additional elements that are implied, and since the author is very clearly not trying to overcomplicate this segment, is highly unlikely to have imagined such a convoluted backstory to explain why two young men, who seem close to some old lady for no explicit reason, are trying to kill a colony of cats.
No, it's really just the fact that you know just enough about the language to pound on the table about the topic, but not enough to pound on the facts. I've got the same problem with some other guy when a new chapter of Ruri Dragon comes out, and I complain about the "Localizer" butchering the material.
You act like it's this big mystery whether these people are related to her, when the author makes this to be an open-and-shut situation.
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why the fuck they giving this boy his denji arc
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There is no situation, in which poisoning healthy animals is anything resembling "humane" in treating them.What do you meant "way too cruel"? If adopting them was out of the question (the previous chapter told us that) that was properly the most humane way of "taking care" of them
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Except, you know, when it's a colony of feral cats. You seem to be under the impression their lives are anything more than short, and miserable. Never mind the problems they cause for everyone else.
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I've lived my whole life around feral cats actually living out in the wild, not in the city (where even if one neighborhood's feeding granny died it's entirely possible there's another one a few blocks down). Whatever else their lives are (and it's true, not many survive to adulthood, nevermind old age, as nature's balance works) they're theirs. Nothing could be more inhumane than arbitrarily deciding from our lofty perch that they need to die because "they're a nuisance" and even worse is abusing what fragile trust they have in us by poisoning them. So allow me to repeat myself: anyone who sees an act like this and isn't absolutely repulsed by it, let alone defends it, is inhuman. "They're just animals, after all. They exist for our convenience and will die for our inconvenience".
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Imagine being so far gone that you'd let a colony of feral cats kill every bird in the neighborhood, spread shit, piss, and other miscellaneous cat filth, and then rot up the neighborhood with their corpses... because you think they have some inherent right to live.
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