Nozomanu Fushi no Boukensha - Vol. 4 Ch. 16 - Magic Contract

[HauntedPizza]

@Exile My brain has been melted by people spamming about how this is another awful Isekai. This isn't Isekai at all right? I remember now that he's just a regular resident of this world...

 

[HauntedPizza]

Edit: Never mind.

 

[mommunism]

@boag Did you make this card yourself? I hate the majority of isekai titles, but only maybe half of these are fair criticisms and even those mostly just depend on the execution. Some aren't even unfair criticisms, they're just flat-out wrong. If you think backstabbing idiots can't form a government you haven't read a single history book. Dozens of successful governments have been run by the like. The same goes for nobility being assholes, which still applies widely even today with the wealthy (same with religion, see evangelical pastors). Plenty of the tropes like D&D races and demon kings are just classical ideas, which all good authors incorporate to some degree, and things like base 10 gold conversions are generally just reasonably added estimates, like how Americans say 100 yen is 1 USD.

 

[HauntedPizza]

@mommunism Welcome to people hating a bunch of various basic story elements that can be well written with the right story and author, all simply because hating Isekai is the popular thing ever since Sword Art Online came out. I'm also not a fan of Isekai in general but that bingo card is absurd. The idea of people hating something like Lord of the Rings because it has races such as Elves is one of the most ridiculous things I've honestly heard on the internet.

You're also 100% right about the Government thing. Look at almost every major Government right now, the amount of backstabbing insane people running the world is just normal. It's always been normal.

 

[cullinaire]

@boag yeah I've seen that before and was referring to it, a true classic. However my #3 item (milquetoast MC) doesn't seem to be represented on any of the squares!

Regarding the bingo in general - it's a joke guys...sadly a lot of the comments on here seem to be completely serious!

😅

 

[HauntedPizza]

@cullinaire There's no jokes on the internet, only serious biz.

 

[boag]

@mommunism
@@HauntedPizza

they're just flat-out wrong.

The bingo is compiled from overused tropes that lazy hack writers drop immediatly so that they dont have to put any thought into their story.

If you think backstabbing idiots can't form a government you haven't read a single history book.
Dozens of successful governments have been run by the like.

Theres a big difference between forming a goverment and running one.
If you have examples of utter brain dead evil morons forming a working goverment, please enlighten me.

The same goes for nobility being assholes.

the fact that there are some assholes does not mean that every single one is an asshole, the cliche in most shitty isekais has ALL NOBLES/CLERGY being irredeemable douchebags.
It there because the author doesnt know how to write complex characters that act like greedy cunts.

Plenty of the tropes like D&D races and demon kings are just classical ideas

Yet they are overused in Isekai stories because the author lacks any imagination to create something new, its not that they cant be used well, its that they are there just for the sake of filling in a fantasy niche.

base 10 gold conversions are generally just reasonably added estimates, like how Americans say 100 yen is 1 USD.

when you are too damn lazy to imagine an economy and just go LOL 100 Silver = 1 Gold = 1000000 Yen, then you shouldnt even mention it.

 

[HauntedPizza]

@boag I don't even like Isekai 99% of the time, so I don't have a horse in this race. Nothing is original. Pretty much everything has influences from the likes of Shakespeare, and he wasn't even original. He ripped off the Greeks and people like Francis Bacon. They weren't original either. Plus if you think J. R. R. Tolkien is a hack author I'd love to see you do better.

These arguments are on nearly every single chapter of every single Isekai that I've seen. That bingo card is just low hanging fruit that people love to complain about every time. Everyone thinks they're the smartest person in the room and that they're a master of critique. I guess it's some form of validation for people that love to hate read Isekai and LN based fantasy series like this one.

The bottom line is that nobody is ever going to make anything that's 100% original. Every creator is inspired by the works that came before them. I know for a fact that the series I like, you like, everyone else on this website likes, all have their own cliches and tropes. Every single piece of entertainment/story/art in existence was inspired by something, uses some kind of cliche/trope. Everyone is ultimately equal and this is all petty squabbling that doesn't mean anything. All I care about is if those tropes and cliches are used well, and if the person creating something is good at their craft.

So in closing, I'm going to go do something that I actually enjoy. Have a good day.

 

[Yamibi]

Haters gonna hate..
This is actually pretty well made story wise. The girl is too naivee and that's a sad fact.

 

[Qelix]

Please, by all means. Stay for dinner.

 

[mommunism]

@boag I know what the bingo is for, I'm telling you that some of the points don't even make sense.

For you to be pedantic about the difference between forming and running a government is both missing the point of the bingo and just being generally ahistorical. The bingo is saying that isekai consist of backstabbing idiots in government which necessitates that their kind formed it. I cannot think of a single title off the top of my head that actually shows the government forming. Furthermore, the formation of a government is a very complicated thing and is most often just the branching out from another civilization over the course of multiple generations. Even the Roman Empire, which is viewed as one of the most successful governments ever, was filled with betrayals, many of which lead to government overhauls.

The bingo should say every single noble is an asshole if that's what it meant. It doesn't say that, which means it's conveying that they generally are, which is the case. Even if a title does show ever single noble being an asshole, which isn't even common, it's only mildly unrealistic given the number of nobles in the average story and the higher likelihood of them being dicks in medieval periods where they can more easily get away with it.

No even mildly decent author thinks using a classical idea is bad because it's popular. Saying D&D races are overused is like saying ghosts or demons are overused in horror films. "D&D races" (many of which are borrowed from other things) are just what define the fantasy genre. It's a basic aspect of global culture at this point. There's no good reason to deviate.

The readers (rightfully) expect an idea of the value of money so it doesn't sound like meaningless number ever time it's mentioned.

It's kind of ironic. People like you that defend shit like this card are why the isekai genre exists in it's current form. The card is meant to call out lazy storytelling but is itself full of lazy critiques that reflect on whoever wrote it (or defends it). The fact that so many people defend critiques that no decent author would even consider explains why so many shitty authors exist and still manage to write popular works. It's just the classic anti-circlejerk that's no better than the circlejerk itself (just the card I mean, there are plenty of valid anti-isekai memes elsewhere).

 

[boag]

@HauntedPizza

J. R. R. Tolkien is a hack author I'd love to see you do better.

Why are you assigning statements to me that I didnt make?
Also where did JRR even come into this mess?

These arguments are on nearly every single chapter of every single Isekai that I've seen.

Gee, its almost like these are badly written tropes used by shitty writters to quickly a stablish a story without too much effort.

That bingo card is just low hanging fruit

No shit really? whatever gave you that idea?

Everyone thinks they're the smartest person in the room and that they're a master of critique. I guess it's some form of validation for people that love to hate read Isekai and LN based fantasy series like this one.

Hold up a mirror while you read this.

The bottom line is that nobody is ever going to make anything that's 100% original.

Thats not even the point of the bingo card, its about reusing tropes in a very specific manner to get out of actual worldbuilding, story telling and character development.

All I care about is if those tropes and cliches are used well, and if the person creating something is good at their craft.

Why do you think i made the bingo?
or do you actually believe that a well written story will score a bingo on the card?


@mommunism

I know what the bingo is for, I'm telling you that some of the points don't even make sense.

Saying "it doenst make sense because it doesnt make sense" is a pretty shallow argument when you cant even describe why.

For you to be pedantic about the difference between forming and running a government is both missing the point of the bingo

No, its a very clear statement, that you ran off in another direction with something you thought you read is your issue.

The bingo is saying that isekai consist of backstabbing idiots in government

you seem to have some form of issues with reading comprehension.
1.- its not all Isekai, the Bingo clearly states "Garbage Isekai"
2.- you again dismiss the very clear action of Forming a Goverment, not participating in one, not running one, actually creating one from the ground up, if you have an example of a mouth breathing idiot actually Creating a working goverment from the ground up, I will retract all my statements on the matter.

which necessitates that their kind formed it.

do the elected officials in the US senate today create the goverment of the United States?
Did they participate in the construction of the Constitution out of nothing but ideas?

I cannot think of a single title off the top of my head that actually shows the government forming.

Now that is actual criticism that can be used to ammend the bingo.

Furthermore, the formation of a government is a very complicated thing and is most often just the branching out from another civilization over the course of multiple generations.

And yet you stated in your last wall of text that there are actual historical records of backstabbing retards forming goverments.

The bingo should say every single noble is an asshole if that's what it meant.

I concurr, it should be ammended.

Saying D&D races are overused is like saying ghosts or demons are overused in horror films. "D&D races" (many of which are borrowed from other things) are just what define the fantasy genre. It's a basic aspect of global culture at this point. There's no good reason to deviate.

There are several really, sine at this point they have become a basic crutch of every fantasy author to just up and copy Elves, Dwarfs and Orcs into the setting without doing much with them except saying they exist, or to get a waifu for the MC.

The readers (rightfully) expect an idea of the value of money so it doesn't sound like meaningless number ever time it's mentioned.

And thats why even introducing the comparison just to ignore it later on is stupid.

The card is meant to call out lazy storytelling but is itself full of lazy critiques that reflect on whoever wrote it (or defends it).

youve only been able to make a clear critique of one panel, so please reflect one what you just said, cause your being a massive hypocrite right now, or you dont have self awareness.

The fact that so many people defend critiques that no decent author would even consider explains why so many shitty authors exist and still manage to write popular works.

I dont even know how you can logically explain this, can you even explain how you got to this conlusion?

It's just the classic anti-circlejerk that's no better than the circlejerk itself (just the card I mean, there are plenty of valid anti-isekai memes elsewhere).

Did the card hurt you in any way?
You seem awfully heated by a shitty circlejerk.

 

[HauntedPizza]

@boag Oh wow I should look in the mirror, I totally didn't see that response coming. The literal point was that everyone, me, you, everyone else, thinks that their perspective is right. Everyone thinks that they're so smart. So no I don't need to use a mirror to be aware of my own point. I'm perfectly aware we're all fools, myself included. Also I don't hate read series, I'm reading this series because I'm getting some entertainment out of it, even if it's not a masterful work of art it's just fun. Cool if you hate this series, that's not going to keep me from liking it.

JRR came up in the conversation previously because from my understanding you were saying only hack writers use unoriginal fantasy races such as elves and orcs. Maybe I misunderstood you, but if I didn't then I guess by that logic every author is bad at their craft because they're unoriginal when they use humans.

If you want to hate read series like this and complain about how awful they are in the comments go for it? I have no intent on trying to stop you and I already know I can't change your mind. I'd like to move on from this conversation if possible though, I'd prefer it if we could all go get pizza and talk about something fun.

 

[mommunism]

@boag To put it bluntly, it just isn't worth my time to argue with someone this stupid. Most of my simple points managed to fly over your head. You've more or less just proven what I was saying at the end of my last comment.

 

[Xeli]

@boag that isekai bingo is pretty garbage if u ask me. Nobility and people from religious sections back in the medieval era were notoriously known for their corruption and just being an asshole. Slavery falls into era accuracy. Game mechanics isn't a trope as it falls under an rpg isekai. Adventurers guilds is again what makes an rpg function under realisitic terms. Kemonomimi are literally beings with beast-like characteristics and its pretty accurate to be listed as beasts because of how much humans are known for discrimination. Backstabbing people in the medieval era was very common in the nobility. And many more aren't tropes. If u were to say that a random nobody suddenly got op was a trope now I'd agree. But half the shit that's in that bingo is literally accurate to real life so it would make sense, or it helps make the isekai function. So i swear if u ever bring up this fucking bingo as an important part your arguements ur point is slightly invalidated. I honestly dont think you know what tropes are even.

 

[boag]

@HauntedPizza

I'm reading this series because I'm getting some entertainment out of it.

You seem to be under the erronous impression that I posted the bingo in criticism of this series, if it is let me clarify that is not reason i posted it, I posted it because someone asked for a bingo card.

Hell this Bingo card could not even be applied to this series at all, since it lacks the one crucial element for the bingo, the Isekai bit.

JRR came up in the conversation previously because from my understanding you were saying only hack writers use unoriginal fantasy races such as elves and orcs. Maybe I misunderstood you.

I do believe its a misunderstanding, because how the hell would the actual creator of the modern day depictions of Elves, Dwarves and Orcs be copycat hack?

If you want to hate read series like this

I'll reiterate again, just so we are clear on the matter, I did not post the bingo in criticism of this series, because it cannot be applied to this series. I posted it because someone asked for an isekai bingo card game.

@mommunism
What succint and clever argument, i bow your vastly superior intellect and lay broken and defeated by the sharpness of your wit for it is as clever as your keyboard.

@Xeli

Nobility and people from religious sections back in the medieval era were notoriously known for their corruption and just being an asshole.

I guess The Renaissance, just happened because of magic then.

Slavery falls into era accuracy.

Yes but not in the way isekais stories portray it, in Isekais its mainly used to get a the MC waifu/s that are bound to him and quickly fall inlove because "he treated me nice", which in itself is a stupid ass trope.

Game mechanics isn't a trope as it falls under an rpg isekai.

and a hamhanded writers crutch to present how a character "gets stronger"

Adventurers guilds is again what makes an rpg function under realisitic terms.

See the last one

Kemonomimi are literally beings with beast-like characteristics and its pretty accurate to be listed as beasts because of how much humans are known for discrimination.

Kemonomimi literally means "Monster/Beast Ears", instead of actually taking the time to design a beastial looking race, just putting fucking animal ears on something makes it a beast, which is again overused with no thought put into it, and ticking a fetish box.

half the shit that's in that bingo is literally accurate to real life

really, can you point the 12 squares that are accurate to real life?

 

[mommunism]

@boag I didn't call myself smart. I called you stupid. The fact that you couldn't recognize that shows that you are, even ignoring your broken English.

Edit: And actually, it's hilarious that you would use the renaissance to say religion wasn't corrupt, because (ignoring how your point is a complete non sequitur) breaking away from the corrupt religions of the medieval era was like the entire point of the renaissance. That on it's own demonstrates that you have no fucking idea what you're talking about when it comes to history.

 

[boag]

@mommunism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_university

 

[mommunism]

@boag "If education exists the nobles and clergy cannot be corrupt."

God you are such a fucking moron. Like demonstrably so in every way, it gets worse with every comment. I'd kill myself if I thought something like this was even close to being a good point.

 

[boag]

@mommunism
im just waiting to see what phatom argument youre gonna attack next.

you clearly have me outmatched in a duel of wits.