Objection against chapter deletion (Isekai Ojisan)

[OnDeedolito]

A guy from 4chan /a/ uploaded a special chapter of Isekai Ojisan (27.1 - it's a short extra from volume - there is a gap but the extras aren't chronological with main chapters so it isn't a major spoiler):
https://mangadex.org/chapter/1078961

However, the chapter got deleted, I assume because of "typesetting" style where the bubbles were brought out of the page to the margin instead of written over, to simplify the work of the volunteer.
It looked like this: https://imgur.com/a/6FulSk6
Is that really such a problem?

It was reasonably well translated/edited, it was not a troll and there are worse quality chapters alive on Mangadex. I can't really judge the translation but there was nothing hinting at it being poor, and it was Japanese directly to English, while chapters 23-24 now on the site are jpn-chinese-english.

Compare it to the extant version of chapter 22. That one has poor language BUT is typeset in the bubbles... but I would call it a worse job. (I am not calling for it being deleted too!)
This guys stepped in and offered a translation that was readable and useful. The weird graphical style wasn't really a huge problem. There are in-bubble typeset scanlations that look much worse.

Is it really necessary to delete this? The guy is making a translation of chapter 28 on /a/ and this manga now has no translators, so we are glad for anything we get. I think the benefits of allowing such weird TS style outweigh the negatives, really.

(With all respect. I get there there are some rules and guidelines and so on, but...)

Edit: now the freshly uploaded chapter 25 https://mangadex.org/chapter/1079298/1 has way worse language and translation accuracy level than the deleted chapter with bad TS. It's seemingly a machine translation*, while the deleted extra was direct by actual translator.
(* I compared, it's worse than the old jpn-cn-en translation posted on 4chan a month or so ago.)

 

[BzzBzz]

No matter how bad translation is, if it's properly TS'd then it's easy to read and understand what happens in the chapter.
No matter how good translation is, if it's TS'd like in imgur sample then it's literally unreadable and equal to troll release.

Good thing it was deleted. IMO.

Edit: if you CBA to TS just post a TL on 4chan and some one else most likely will volunteer to properly TS it.

 

[MavB_Ver]

One can reupload that chapter after doing some editing/typesetting. Does not matter who would do that and uploading under the /a/ group in my opinion.

 

[OnDeedolito]

@BzzBzz
People posted translations on 4chan but as you can see, in chapter 25, guys on MD ignore those and just roll their own terrible machine translation instead that is much inferior.
Check chapter 25 if you think bad translation with neat TS is better. It's full or errors and sure doesn't make it easier to know what goes on.

For example: elf saying "so there was a conspiracy to kill the hero?" became "so the plan is to kill the hero?" as if it was the protagonist that was planning to do it. And that was just the first few pages.

 

[blackyawgdom]

the way the imgur link looks it would likely be classified as still being the raw. if you CBA to even put a white box over the text bubbles.... its not a translation. Its just the raw with notes.

Scantlation requires 3 steps.
Translation. Simple, Straightforward, exactly as the word implies. MTL, Duolingo/RosettaStone user, Or person with a college degree in both languages.

Cleaning. More complex, can include redrawing, but something simple as taking whiteout to the text boxes. (some dont care about sfx)

Typesetting. Simple and complex. Just as the word implies, its setting type on the page.

 

[deerafl]

that's not a scanlation, but notelation

 

[OnDeedolito]

So the chapter by this superior scanlator got deleted earlier, and now the replacement is machine-translation with subpar english: https://mangadex.org/chapter/1174547/1.

Is that really the right way?
If the chapter with slightly silly typesetting was allowed to stay up, this new dude who typesetted a lousy MTL text might have used the superior from-japanese TL made by an actual translator instead of wasting his time. But no, because MD deleted it, he didn't even know about that translation and wasted his time.

 

[Dr_Harnsaft]

After reading one or two chapters like this you get used to it, it's pretty decent. Don't understand why it got deleted.

 

[blackyawgdom]

@OnDeedolito Again, the reason has been explained. The pages in question are technically not scantlated. thats just the Raw image with sticky notes. Therefore its against the rules.

 

[OnDeedolito]

@blackyawgdom
Thanks for that post, but do the rules really anywhere state that this is not considered a scanlation? It is functionally identical to release that has text paste over bubbles. It is not raw where you have to look up translation in another browser window. It is fully prepared for english reader.
It definitely cannot be called a RAW, in my view.

Global rules only say:

Scans of official releases or webcomics from official sources, such as original releases (raws) or officially translated releases, are not allowed to be uploaded.

The only exception to this rule is for officially translated releases where either the license is expired, the series is out of print, or the publisher is defunct and that release can no longer be purchased through the publisher. These releases will be uploaded under the group "[Publisher] (Ex-Licenses)", and are treated as scanlations for the purpose of all rules.

 

[MavB_Ver]

@OnDeedolito
In my view, it's still raw because it still has FULL Japanese text, with just extra bubble.
Yes, it is fine. Both translations can exist if that guy or someone else, maybe you, do the typeset for him.

 

[Esor]

Thanks for this, added one more plan to read

 

[BzzBzz]

> Global rules only say

2.3.5 Joke or troll releases are not allowed

And no, "joke" is not limited to "funny stories" :/

IMO this is perfect example of troll release.

 

[OnDeedolito]

@BzzBzz
But that was not a troll. It was serious translation, yo know at that point there were no scanlators doing it at all, and this guy came and did it for the fans.
I see it was a mistake that he has put an intro page making fun of the style at the start of the chapter perhaps, because that might have made someody think it was a troll.

But look: the guy is continuing on and made translations for every chapter since then* in timely manner, I mean, in days since japanese release, while the series is notoriously lacking such releases. After he came up, some people did individual chapters but took weeks to months, and some other people came up, but with low-quality machine translation. It's ironic the currently most serious and pro translation of this is called a troll....

* 27.1, 28, 29, 29.5 now. That is not what a trolling release looks like in my opinion, my friends.

@MavB_Ver
Thinking anything that has a japanese text visible is raw is nonsense. You are completely ignoring that the thing is translated. Raw means untranslated, that is much better and much more practical defitinition.
BTW, there are tons of typeset releases that ignore in-panel japanese text (not to mention SFX), not translating it and not erasing it. Like the MTL release that is now on Mangadex.
Those releases contain the forbidden japanese, don't you mind that too? (so they are less translated than what you called a "raw"...)

 

[MavB_Ver]

@OnDeedolito
Yes, I am intentionally ignoring those part. And you know what is the result? I am left with untouch full of Japanese text pages, and the other is just empty where the text supposed to be in. That's my view on how 'raw' it is.

And it doesn't matter much if the translation is serious or not, they are not policing the quality here. All you need to do for it to be allowed is contact the guy in qestion and cooperate with him, or do it yourself. Questioning won't change the result, so just act on it.

 

[MrIncognito]

I don't think the real issue is quality or the complete elimination of all Japanese text, but the scanned images and text of the original Japanese source being one hundred percent visible, such that a Japanese person living in Japan with no knowledge of other languages could use it as a substitute for a legitimate purchase with absolutely no problem.

Even if you consider scanslation to be a gray area on the morality/copyright infringement scale, distributing what is undeniably the original published work in its entirety (with or without "extra stuff" to the sides) is unquestionably OUT

 

[OnDeedolito]

@MrIncognito
Obscuring original text by translation does nothing, it does not remove the copyright infringement from scanlations, that's silly.

That's on the naivety level of the people that were thinking that by putting on of those "if you are >insert law enforcement agency< you are forbidden from viewing this page and if you disrespect this notice you can't sue me" notices on your piracy site they have outsmarted copyright law (yeah people used to do that, years ago).

 

[Teasday]

If the quality of a chapter looks indistinguishable from a troll release to the staff, it's treated as a troll release. We're not mind readers, we can't know people's intentions. What we do know is how a release looks like.

And this one looks like absolute trash jesus fucking christ you can't be serious

 

[Richman]

Woah, if that's really how I looked, even I could've made something ""decent"" in paint.

 

[justforthelulz]

This thread reminds me of the deleted meme-version release of another actively translated series.