Ogami Tsumiki to Kinichijou.

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Simple fact of the matter is vampire bites are considered sexual in fiction at large. The female love interest of a romcom manga agreed, with almost no argument, to let a man who is not the mc (her most likely love interest) bite her. A character she specifically disliked earlier, too. Of course this is going to piss off the audience of a romcom manga. No one who reads romcoms, unless it's specifically a drama story about this kind of topic, wants to deal with this crap.

You can argue that she doesn't feel it's sexual and it's just a food thing, but it's clear the audience will feel it is, which is why that imagine-spot even exists, so the author clearly knows too. It doesn't help it was established she didn't like the vampire boy beforehand and since the vampire has so many girls in his phone one has to wonder why she even bothered to do this for him when he could probably just get someone else easily (the answer is it's writing contrivance so the author could put in this scene). If he had been dying for lack of blood or something it would be one thing to help him, but this seemed to have no purpose other than he wanted blood then and she just agreed. And for everyone trying to defend this crying "READING COMPREHENSION" I know exactly why the mangaka did this scene. I know the point was to showcase the MC's growing feelings by making him jealous. The thing is you can do that all kinds of ways without resorting to what is the supernatural equivalent of another man kissing the female love interest in front of the MC.

In any case, I don't think the manga is drop-worthy just because of this scene. But it is something that's obviously going to leave an extremely bad taste in clear majority of reader's mouths. The dip in score because of it was warranted, as the scene frankly put a big black spot on the comfy vibe the manga had until now. We'll see if it can crawl out of the hole it dug for itself.
 
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There are far too many entries in the genre that say otherwise. How about you do a quick tag search on any appropriate website for NTR and see for yourself? Here, I'll even pick one out for you.

Chitose, one of the most well-known relatively recent NTR works has no official romantic relationship between the cuck and the stolen girl. The vast majority of creators and consumers agree on the definition that I put out and you're going to try and tell me that it's purely my interpretation? You're the silly one here.

Once again, technicalities and concrete relationships aren't as important. They do their job well to emphasize the feelings they're trying to evoke, but ultimately, point of view and jealousy/perceived loss are the main factors. I don't decide this, and neither do you. The people who allow the genre itself to exist decide this.

I don't need to address your other points because at the fundamental level, your argument already falls flat.


Yeah, in this case the author doesn't commit and the incident is treated as a nothingburger in-universe, so it just falls under NTR-baiting rather than full-blown NTR. Regardless, a move like this after two chapters of establishing itself as a fluffy romcom just feels misplaced and in poor taste to me.

Fine. I really don't want to accept that, but maybe that's just my standard of not seeing it as NTR. Cause if something like this can be technically considered as ntr: the presence of one's love interest being taken away by someone else, then lots of series that aren't tagged ntr should qualify as one. The childhood girls who are all losing to the main girl should also be awarded ntr tag..
 
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I don't think he was imagining getting cucked, when he thought about what it would be like if a human did that, he was imagining "what if I did that to her?", he was probably spacing out which is why she said his name and was looking at him, but was poorly communicated by the author.

Not like it matters much, still an overall terrible chapter, especially with the MC being a god tier wimp. Good art and FMC design wasted on bad writing.

And no, NTR does not need an actual established and currently ongoing romantic relationship to be NTR. Not that this chapter is NTR anyway.
 
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So sweet and comfy. It's make me green with envy and hate the whole world even more

Why my life can't be like that? What is lacking in me? Why life so unfair? Why can't I just life in fiction?
 
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I don't think he was imagining getting cucked, when he thought about what it would be like if a human did that, he was imagining "what if I did that to her?", he was probably spacing out which is why she said his name and was looking at him, but was poorly communicated by the author.

Not like it matters much, still an overall terrible chapter, especially with the MC being a god tier wimp. Good art and FMC design wasted on bad writing.

And no, NTR does not need an actual established and currently ongoing romantic relationship to be NTR. Not that this chapter is NTR anyway.
"he was imagining "what if I did that to her?" -Nope
Hair is clearly black = vampire
 
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Ha ha imagine that he is an incubus instead, and need intercourse to fill his stomach.

I believe she would accept the offer, too.
 
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And for everyone trying to defend this crying "READING COMPREHENSION" I know exactly why the mangaka did this scene. I know the point was to showcase the MC's growing feelings by making him jealous. The thing is you can do that all kinds of ways without resorting to what is the supernatural equivalent of another man kissing the female love interest in front of the MC.
Wrong. The scene's purpose is not only to show the MC being jealous and realizing his growing feelings. It's also to showcase that the Genjin themselves perceive the world very differently and make the human protagonist understand that his prejudices are false. Hell, it's literally laid out in his thoughts as the chapter progresses, there's no mistaking it.

Exactly because vampire bites have been sexualized in fiction at large, this scene subverts that belief by having both Tsumiki and the vampire dude treat it as a commonality. There are zero sexual implications before the so-called page. Like, even the girl that left him before because "he only wanted her blood" basically signals that the vampire doesn't view blood-sucking as an erotic act and they were supposed to be lovey-dovey after he drank her blood. Tsumiki understands that he is hungry so she finds it logical to feed him. They're both Genjins and human "rules" and "beliefs" straight up don't apply to them.

Now, to the page itself. The panel right before even has the MC thinking "if it were HUMANS who were doing it..." and then it cuts to the next page where it's all warped in his mind. It's very clear that this is the guy's delusion because of his human prejudice that it's got to be sexual somehow. The page after the "lewd" delusion has them completely deadpan again. It's pretty difficult for me to believe that it actually happened.

So yeah, I am going to defend it crying "READING COMPREHENSION", because it does seem like lots of people actually completely skipped over dialogue, facial expressions and the tone of the scene. For these non-human characters, it's genuinely just lunch time.

inb4 I also get called an "NTR enthusiast" lmfao


edit for undeadclown: I know you personally understand the lewd scene was imagined by the MC, but I still elaborated on it because there were people on this thread that genuinely believed it happened.
 
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Exactly because vampire bites have been sexualized in fiction at large, this scene subverts that belief by having both Tsumiki and the vampire dude treat it as a commonality.
As I said in my post, how Tsumiki and Senga feel about it doesn’t matter. The only point that matters is how the audience feels about it. Frankly, I don’t buy the 3 deep 4 u explanation about it being a subversion of vampire tropes that was supposed to teach the audience some kind of lesson. This entire post feels like it put infinity more thought into this than the author did. It also doesn’t address the core issue of why Tsumiki would even agree. She’s established as not liking Senga. Senga is established as being more than capable of finding plenty of sources of blood, so he wasn't in danger, just mildly inconvenienced as a result of the behavior Tsumiki critisized in the first place. Your only explanation for this is the extremely vague “Genjin are just, you know, different from humans and they do stuff like this for reasons.” How convenient one those things they "just do" involves what most readers would view as a supernatural kiss. And, yes, the primary point of the scene was to showcase jealousy, which is why Senga literally said that. Most manga are not that deep. They tend to be pretty literal with what they're trying to convey.

There are a ton of ways the ways humans and genjin are different can be showcased without resorting to this. Your post made no good case as to why it specifically had to be done this way. And given the massive negative reaction by 95% of the readers to this chapter, I'd say doing so was detreminemtal in the long run. By all means go on thinking you and the few people defending this chapter are a special secret club and no one else truly understand's the author's vision, but genrally speaking, when the reaction is this bad, that's a pretty big indicator the author made a fundmental mistake in what they were trying to convey or how it was executed.
 
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Frankly, I don’t buy the 3 deep 4 u explanation about it being a subversion of vampire tropes that was supposed to teach the audience some kind of lesson.
Yutaka himself says that Genjins feel differently about it, so it's absolutely a subversion of the trope, since it's not sexual in nature for them. It sounds pretty literal as an explanation to me. It's not about the "lesson" that we have prejudices blah blah, it's about the manga's world building, where Genjins are few and humans have prejudices against them.

This entire post feels like it put infinity more thought into this than the author did. [...] And, yes, the primary point of the scene was to showcase jealousy, which is why Senga literally said that. Most manga are not that deep. They tend to be pretty literal with what they're trying to convey.
Also, this was literally just what I gathered from the chapter when I first read it. I didn't even think deeply about it, it was just my genuine reading of the chapter's themes. The whole "Genjins function differently and have different needs" thing has been thematically consistent ever since the first chapter. Believe it or not, the author has actually put time to showcase differences between humans and Genjins. The main character himself thinks about this sort of stuff all the time, which is why he even goes "this is normal for them, BUT if it were humans..." implying that the implications don't really apply to Genjins. It IS a theme of the chapter and it's laid out just as clearly as the whole jealousy thing. Of course Yutaka being jealous was part of the chapter's point, but it wasn't the sole point is what I'm saying. It's partially about Yutaka feeling uncomfortable by his human values and partially Genjins treating social norms differently, as it's been showcased multiple times in the past, like Tsumiki sniffing Yutaka's hair as a greeting and friendship-token, which is perceived differently by him.

It also doesn’t address the core issue of why Tsumiki would even agree. She’s established as not liking Senga. Senga is established as being more than capable of finding plenty of sources of blood, so he wasn't in danger, just mildly inconvenienced as a result of the behavior Tsumiki critisized in the first place. Your only explanation for this is the extremely vague “Genjin are just, you know, different from humans and they do stuff like this for reasons.” How convenient one those things they "just do" involves what most readers would view as a supernatural kiss.
Again, Tsumiki just found it logical that he should drink some blood since he was hungry. It's pretty okay to me, it just feels like she was providing him with food in good faith. Her not liking him much is pretty much irrelevant, because they understand each other's struggles. He needs blood and he is hungry. I bet the whole reason he has so many girls in his contacts is because it's hard for him to actually convince them to drink their blood non-transactionally lmao. For Tsumiki, it's genuinely a non-issue. It means nothing to her. Thematically, it's coupled with the jealousy issue. They aren't mutually exclusive. They're tied together to promote the ideas of jealousy through his misconceptions as a human. Voila, a more grounded, more believable conflict.

And yeah, Genjins have different needs that humans haven't adapted to. Drinking blood is a vampire's need and they will drink it. It's not vague, they don't "do stuff for reasons". They exist in a society where they aren't the majority and they function in different ways that humans perceive falsely. The readers perceiving it as a supernatural kiss is definitely the point, but it's still just inside their mind, just like the MC's. It's pretty hard for me to view it as NTR or something actually lewd. After the meal, neither Tsumiki nor the vampire feel differently about each other. I can't really read it as if something substantial actually happened, since it's just the MC being a human and being jealous, which is, again, still part of the reason this chapter exists. If the lewd page was entirely removed and the MC just split them, nobody would mind it, because ultimately there really were no sexual implications. It's just the image itself that bothers people for reasons that I can't really agree with.

The one thing I could agree with is that maybe the chapter's message could have been the same without the depiction of an erotic bite, but I think the theme is much more effective and striking if it's included. I also get feeling like your expectations were betrayed in a sense (even though I don't feel that way), but I don't think ultimately the core concept changes or that the story will lose its fluffiness in the future.

Most manga are not that deep. They tend to be pretty literal with what they're trying to convey.
The one thing that I really, really disagree with in your comment is this though. It almost feels like you're underestimating creators' intentions. I believe that most manga out there, regardless of whether they do it well or not, actually put some thought to what they want to present. This specific manga, too, has definitely put some effort into world building and the dichotomy between humans and Genjins. There is absolutely no reason for me to believe that there is zero subtext to it all. It's very clear that the chapter's conveying the idea about Genjins not having the same social cues as humans and, just like you said, it is being very literal with it, with the MC literally saying that same thing right before his fantasy lol.

And given the massive negative reaction by 95% of the readers to this chapter, I'd say doing so was detreminemtal in the long run. By all means go on thinking you and the few people defending this chapter are a special secret club and no one else truly understand's the author's vision, but genrally speaking, when the reaction is this bad, that's a pretty big indicator the author made a fundmental mistake in what they were trying to convey or how it was executed.
Also lmao at believing I'm some sort of elitist or trying to belittle me like that. I hate elitism more than anything. It's not just a few people, I've seen many comments on reddit holding the same thought that I did. When people genuinely thought that the erotic bite was real, then yeah, I think there is grounds to say that they literally didn't understand the chapter or read it too quickly. When the creator themself had to come out on twitter and confirm that it was indeed a delusion, something's gone wrong already. That's all I was pointing out. And at this point, the only mistake I could regard the author with is that the scene didn't have to actually portray the erotic bite. People thinking it wasn't a delusion is totally on them, as it's explicitly explained and shown before and after that there was nothing sexual about it. Was the author supposed to have a little note on top saying "this is Yutaka's fantasy"? I don't like it when ideas are literally explained to you at large. The subtext and signs are there and they are clear enough in the execution. But more than anything, I implore you to rethink the whole "not deep" argument. I also don't believe the manga is particularly "deep" but there is absolutely effort put into creating a different class of people. If you reread the chapters, you will see that the world building has been subtle but it's absolutely there.

I, for one, think that this massive reaction is misplaced, not necessarily wrong. If people didn't like the sheer visual depiction of the scene in an otherwise wholesome manga, that's what they should be complaining about, not that it's "NTR" or that it was just a sick fetish or whatever.

TLDR; I personally don't mind it at all, but I could see why it would be bothersome to others. Everything else checks out though, both thematically and tonally, and my "overthinking" is also very much intentional on the author's part, to the point it's literally explicitly mentioned in the chapter itself.
 
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Wrong. The scene's purpose is not only to show the MC being jealous and realizing his growing feelings. It's also to showcase that the Genjin themselves perceive the world very differently and make the human protagonist understand that his prejudices are false. Hell, it's literally laid out in his thoughts as the chapter progresses, there's no mistaking it.

Exactly because vampire bites have been sexualized in fiction at large, this scene subverts that belief by having both Tsumiki and the vampire dude treat it as a commonality. There are zero sexual implications before the so-called page. Like, even the girl that left him before because "he only wanted her blood" basically signals that the vampire doesn't view blood-sucking as an erotic act and they were supposed to be lovey-dovey after he drank her blood. Tsumiki understands that he is hungry so she finds it logical to feed him. They're both Genjins and human "rules" and "beliefs" straight up don't apply to them.

Now, to the page itself. The panel right before even has the MC thinking "if it were HUMANS who were doing it..." and then it cuts to the next page where it's all warped in his mind. It's very clear that this is the guy's delusion because of his human prejudice that it's got to be sexual somehow. The page after the "lewd" delusion has them completely deadpan again. It's pretty difficult for me to believe that it actually happened.

So yeah, I am going to defend it crying "READING COMPREHENSION", because it does seem like lots of people actually completely skipped over dialogue, facial expressions and the tone of the scene. For these non-human characters, it's genuinely just lunch time.

inb4 I also get called an "NTR enthusiast" lmfao


edit for undeadclown: I know you personally understand the lewd scene was imagined by the MC, but I still elaborated on it because there were people on this thread that genuinely believed it happened.
you love NTR we get it
 
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"this is Yutaka's fantasy"
Yutaka himself says that Genjins feel differently about it, so it's absolutely a subversion of the trope, since it's not sexual in nature for them. It sounds pretty literal as an explanation to me. It's not about the "lesson" that we have prejudices blah blah, it's about the manga's world building, where Genjins are few and humans have prejudices against them.


Also, this was literally just what I gathered from the chapter when I first read it. I didn't even think deeply about it, it was just my genuine reading of the chapter's themes. The whole "Genjins function differently and have different needs" thing has been thematically consistent ever since the first chapter. Believe it or not, the author has actually put time to showcase differences between humans and Genjins. The main character himself thinks about this sort of stuff all the time, which is why he even goes "this is normal for them, BUT if it were humans..." implying that the implications don't really apply to Genjins. It IS a theme of the chapter and it's laid out just as clearly as the whole jealousy thing. Of course Yutaka being jealous was part of the chapter's point, but it wasn't the sole point is what I'm saying. It's partially about Yutaka feeling uncomfortable by his human values and partially Genjins treating social norms differently, as it's been showcased multiple times in the past, like Tsumiki sniffing Yutaka's hair as a greeting and friendship-token, which is perceived differently by him.


Again, Tsumiki just found it logical that he should drink some blood since he was hungry. It's pretty okay to me, it just feels like she was providing him with food in good faith. Her not liking him much is pretty much irrelevant, because they understand each other's struggles. He needs blood and he is hungry. I bet the whole reason he has so many girls in his contacts is because it's hard for him to actually convince them to drink their blood non-transactionally lmao. For Tsumiki, it's genuinely a non-issue. It means nothing to her. Thematically, it's coupled with the jealousy issue. They aren't mutually exclusive. They're tied together to promote the ideas of jealousy through his misconceptions as a human. Voila, a more grounded, more believable conflict.

And yeah, Genjins have different needs that humans haven't adapted to. Drinking blood is a vampire's need and they will drink it. It's not vague, they don't "do stuff for reasons". They exist in a society where they aren't the majority and they function in different ways that humans perceive falsely. The readers perceiving it as a supernatural kiss is definitely the point, but it's still just inside their mind, just like the MC's. It's pretty hard for me to view it as NTR or something actually lewd. After the meal, neither Tsumiki nor the vampire feel differently about each other. I can't really read it as if something substantial actually happened, since it's just the MC being a human and being jealous, which is, again, still part of the reason this chapter exists. If the lewd page was entirely removed and the MC just split them, nobody would mind it, because ultimately there really were no sexual implications. It's just the image itself that bothers people for reasons that I can't really agree with.

The one thing I could agree with is that maybe the chapter's message could have been the same without the depiction of an erotic bite, but I think the theme is much more effective and striking if it's included. I also get feeling like your expectations were betrayed in a sense (even though I don't feel that way), but I don't think ultimately the core concept changes or that the story will lose its fluffiness in the future.


The one thing that I really, really disagree with in your comment is this though. It almost feels like you're underestimating creators' intentions. I believe that most manga out there, regardless of whether they do it well or not, actually put some thought to what they want to present. This specific manga, too, has definitely put some effort into world building and the dichotomy between humans and Genjins. There is absolutely no reason for me to believe that there is zero subtext to it all. It's very clear that the chapter's conveying the idea about Genjins not having the same social cues as humans and, just like you said, it is being very literal with it, with the MC literally saying that same thing right before his fantasy lol.


Also lmao at believing I'm some sort of elitist or trying to belittle me like that. I hate elitism more than anything. It's not just a few people, I've seen many comments on reddit holding the same thought that I did. When people genuinely thought that the erotic bite was real, then yeah, I think there is grounds to say that they literally didn't understand the chapter or read it too quickly. When the creator themself had to come out on twitter and confirm that it was indeed a delusion, something's gone wrong already. That's all I was pointing out. And at this point, the only mistake I could regard the author with is that the scene didn't have to actually portray the erotic bite. People thinking it wasn't a delusion is totally on them, as it's explicitly explained and shown before and after that there was nothing sexual about it. Was the author supposed to have a little note on top saying "this is Yutaka's fantasy"? I don't like it when ideas are literally explained to you at large. The subtext and signs are there and they are clear enough in the execution. But more than anything, I implore you to rethink the whole "not deep" argument. I also don't believe the manga is particularly "deep" but there is absolutely effort put into creating a different class of people. If you reread the chapters, you will see that the world building has been subtle but it's absolutely there.

I, for one, think that this massive reaction is misplaced, not necessarily wrong. If people didn't like the sheer visual depiction of the scene in an otherwise wholesome manga, that's what they should be complaining about, not that it's "NTR" or that it was just a sick fetish or whatever.

TLDR; I personally don't mind it at all, but I could see why it would be bothersome to others. Everything else checks out though, both thematically and tonally, and my "overthinking" is also very much intentional on the author's part, to the point it's literally explicitly mentioned in the chapter itself.
"this is Yutaka's fantasy" - WOW
That's changes everything
now MC is a cuck
 
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I was going to go more depth with this. I was going to talk about how I felt your explanation for why Tsumiki agreed seemed very thin and contrived. I was going to defend my point about the majority of manga being mostly surface level when it comes to narrative discourse. I had examples planned out in my head and everything. I was going to address all the points individually, before I realized it didn't matter. This all boils down to a single question: "Why did so many people hate chapter 3."

Answer: the vast majority of romcom readers don't like someone else intruding on the main couple and doing something sexual/romantic with one of them.

"The genjin characters don't view it as sexual or romantic, though"

The audience does, and that's all that matters.

"This was supposed to be a subversion of vampire tropes to show the audience that their preconceived notions were wrong. In this universe there's nothing sexual about vampire bites, at least between Genjin (since obviously Senga's girlfriends don't feel this way)."

Then the author failed since, as stated, almost everyone was mad. Surprisingly, a quirky romcom about a wolf girl was not strong enough to overcome decades of narrative conditioning. The author can say "this is fine and it means nothing" as many times as they want, it's not going to stop that gut reaction of not liking seeing Tsumiki do it. If only a small percentage of readers "got" their point and are defending it, then they failed. Clearly the only winning move here was not to play and use one of the many, many other possibilities to showcase Yukata's growing feelings and the difference between human and Genjin culture.
 
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Then the author failed since, as stated, almost everyone was mad. Surprisingly, a quirky romcom about a wolf girl was not strong enough to overcome decades of narrative conditioning. The author can say "this is fine and it means nothing" as many times as they want, it's not going to stop that gut reaction of not liking seeing Tsumiki do it. If only a small percentage of readers "got" their point and are defending it, then they failed. Clearly the only winning move here was not to play and use one of the many, many other possibilities to showcase Yukata's growing feelings and the difference between human and Genjin culture.
Nothing more to say, then. Whoever wants to stick around will stick around. I just don't believe all this outcry was necessary, as all the hints were placed. I was more annoyed by people thinking the NTR-bait panel was real than anything else. The objective misinterpretation felt like they were even already preoccupied with the idea of NTR in romance manga, so this scene awoke some sort of collective trauma from other series pulling the NTR-bait tag all the time lol. As I said already, someone thinking the fantasy was portrayed in bad taste is completely understandable (even though I disagree and didn't feel the same way), but not misunderstanding what literally happened.

In any case, I really do wonder how the chapter would have fared if the panel was never shown but was just implied that Yutaka thought of something like that and separated them like he did in the chapter. I think the overall reception would have been far more positive and people wouldn't have focused on the bait. I'm still on the ride myself, here's hoping more people will stay around and that the creator has received the feedback loud and clear.
 
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Heroine Face makes it look sexually implied. I had to double take the scene to find out that the MC was imagining himself in Vampires position.

Great catch. I missed this and I bet most the people losing their minds did too.
 
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This is a really cute manga. I wonder what the comments—

Yeah, this is pretty wild to me.

If it made you upset, that's legitimate! I'll be honest, I don't get it, but everybody's sensibilities are different; if it's upsetting, that's real. But I'd resist the thought that this is some super heinous thing or an intentional affront. I think the average reader isn't so sensitive in that way, and so this was a pitch to them that missed for a lot of people, rather than like. Some axiomatic art crime.
 

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