question about dmca'ed mangas

[oniichaniscute]

hey!! i had a quick question, what would happen if a group kept uploading after dmca? would there be any punishment? i saw a group do it and i was a bit confused. (this series in particular)

 

[mylovenovels]

From what I understand on MangaDex, if a series gets DMCA’d it’s basically locked down re-uploading it just gets taken down again. If a group keeps doing it after that, they can get warnings and eventually a ban since it’s seen as knowingly ignoring a DMCA. That’s probably why most groups just drop the series once it happens. Getsuyoubi no Tawawa is pretty strict because it’s actively licensed.

 

[Angry_Panda]

Not exactly. From my understanding, broadly speaking, there are two things that can happen:

1. MD can remove content for, and agree to not allow further uploads of, a certain title, in some or all languages (for instance, One Piece in English). In this case, trying to upload a chapter in violation of that would result in MD either not approving it (for a new uploader) or taking it down (if someone already had permissions) and almost certainly awarding the uploader with a permanent non-revocable ban on chapter uploading. DON'T DO THIS.

(Note - not MD staff, so I can't say this for sure, but having seen most of the banhammer spectrum, this seems like it's worthy of the full sledge.)

2. MD can take down chapters in response to a DMCA, but take no prohibitive action against the title itself (this is what happened last May, by and large). IF someone wants to reupload AND meets the qualifications to do so (either the group's not upload restricted, or they're a member of the group with permission to upload)...

...AND they check the box that says they have copyright permission to upload the chapter during that process...

...it can go back up. The presence or absence of a license in a language has nothing to do with anything.

That bit in italics is the critical one - it's the main piece that keeps MD qualifying as an 'online service provider' for the OCILLA in the DMCA, and not as the 'user' who is actually the one who would be committing a copyright violation, which presumably no one here does because they have to check that box in order to upload, and certainly no one would fib about that, right? (See content policy 2.2.)

(Note - also not a lawyer, so don't take any of this as legal advice or anything else you should really consult an actual lawyer for.)

There were groups that continued their uploads of series affected by DMCAs last May without any change. There were others who panicked and took everything of theirs down and left the site. And there were some who stopped uploading to MD and have continued to upload elsewhere, some of whom have since returned to MD in one way or another.

If one of the series that was struck in May and has continued to be uploaded here since then were to be the subject of another DMCA at some point in the future, MD would comply and the chapters would come down in keeping with the copyright infringement policy.

If I'm wrong about any of this, I'm sure a staff member will be along to shame and flog correct me shortly.

 

[oniichaniscute]

From what I understand on MangaDex, if a series gets DMCA’d it’s basically locked down re-uploading it just gets taken down again. If a group keeps doing it after that, they can get warnings and eventually a ban since it’s seen as knowingly ignoring a DMCA. That’s probably why most groups just drop the series once it happens. Getsuyoubi no Tawawa is pretty strict because it’s actively licensed.

ooh i think i get it. but in this case, wouldn't it be dumb to keep uploading? is it possible that they only dmca'd the chapters beforehand instead of the series itself?

 

[Angry_Panda]

is it possible that they only dmca'd the chapters beforehand instead of the series itself?

This is how DMCA generally works - it's really specific in some aspects, and the copyright holder basically has to issue an individual request for every chapter. So that's likely why a few of the more recent chapters were left up on a bunch of those titles - presumably they were uploaded after the DMCAs were compiled. The copyright holder can't just say 'take everything on Title X down'.

 

[oniichaniscute]

This is how DMCA generally works - it's really specific in some aspects, and the copyright holder basically has to issue an individual request for every chapter. So that's likely why a few of the more recent chapters were left up on a bunch of those titles - presumably they were uploaded after the DMCAs were compiled. The copyright holder can't just say 'take everything on Title X down'.

forgot to say thanks for ur detailed reply. so basically "upload at your own risk"?

 

[Angry_Panda]

forgot to say thanks for ur detailed reply. so basically "upload at your own risk"?

Bingo. MD's assumption is that you have permission to do what you're doing or you wouldn't be doing it, and they are fairly well protected in having that assumption from a legal standpoint.

 

[OisE]

If I remember correctly, they could only take down the chapters if the volumes were already published in the target language.

 

[Angry_Panda]

If I remember correctly, they could only take down the chapters if the volumes were already published in the target language.

No, the copyright is in effect essentially worldwide as soon as the work is put to paper (or into a digital file, or whatever), so there's no need for a translation or license or even a formal copyright registration - the holder just needs to be willing to attest they are in fact the legal owner/holder of the copyright on the work, or the agent of that person. Technically a Xwitter artist could file a DMCA on a scanlation of their work here on MD and it would be legitimate, though that's rather far beyond what I would expect anyone to actually do.

 

[Manko-sensei]

A certain staff member summarised it as "please, don't reupload the chapters" to decrease the chances of MangaDex being targetted again (and, the following time, bringing worse consequences). They could lock the titles to avoid any kind of upload, and they ban/erase content that violates rules (for instance, uploading raws/official translated material with a licence in active). The consequences from third parties or the copyright holders for uploading any kind of pirated material are the same as before, and in case of reuploading stuff another DMCA petition would remove all the material they requested that was up to that date. Some series keep getting updates (specially those done by anons) and some series had re-edited chapters to continue with new chapters, they continue on without any issue.​

 

[OisE]

don't reupload the chapters

The removed chapters or even new scanlated ones?

 

[Manko-sensei]

The removed chapters or even new scanlated ones?

At that time they were talking about the removed chapters, but even if you redo an already uploaded chapter it is still the same for Kakao. Basically, either someone that collected them or the same groups reuploading them.

 

[bluenoirblues]

Mangadex added the copyright checkbox after the DMCA takedown, right? But there's no verification process.
What would happen if I re-uploaded my chapters that got taken down?
Not all of them were taken down in the first place, and another user has since been uploading their own scans

Basically is this a "it's easier to ask for forgiveness instead of permission" situation?

 

[Angry_Panda]

Mangadex added the copyright checkbox after the DMCA takedown, right? But there's no verification process.
What would happen if I re-uploaded my chapters that got taken down?
Not all of them were taken down in the first place, and another user has since been uploading their own scans

Basically is this a "it's easier to ask for forgiveness instead of permission" situation?

Again - I'm not staff. This is part experience (just as a reader/user, not as a scanlator) and part conjecture.

This happened at least once that I recall shortly after the DMCA, and because it was something I knew had been caught in that, I reported that instance figuring it would prevent MD from having another problem with it down the line. The report was rejected, and the chapter stayed. Based on that, my inference is that MD is not actively removing these re-uploaded chapters automatically, or bonking anyone simply for doing this. As you note, the checkbox is there now where it wasn't before.

What I would be more concerned about is the next round of DMCAs (which... let's face it, it's going to show up at some point) and being on the hook for the same offending material twice. At some point, MD does have to start kicking 'repeat offenders' as a show of good faith (this is one of the things that lets them keep their own immunity). I'm not sure where that threshold is (two strikes? Three? More?), but there nominally has to be one somewhere.

And while the number of groups/scanlators that have been targeted directly isn't huge, it's also not zero, and I sure as shinola would not want to be on the receiving end of that particular communication.

So I guess my take is that this boils down to what your risk tolerance is.

 

[OisE]

This happened at least once that I recall shortly after the DMCA, and because it was something I knew had been caught in that, I reported that instance figuring it would prevent MD from having another problem with it down the line. The report was rejected, and the chapter stayed. Based on that, my inference is that MD is not actively removing these re-uploaded chapters automatically, or bonking anyone simply for doing this.

Don't be a snitch panda!