S-kyuu Guild wo Tsuihousareta kedo, Jitsu wa Ore dake Dragon no Kotoba ga Wakaru no de, Kidzuita Toki ni wa Ryuu Kishi no Chouten wo Kiwametemashita …

[Kefrayba]

Non-specific: "Any employee using the bathroom must wash their hands before returning to work."

Unknown specific: "Whoever won the raffle will need to go to the office to pick up their prize. "

Known specific: this usage. generally incorrect, both today and historically

The usage in this context is correct per the today usage, according to Merriam-Webster, Oxford and APA. This kind of usage is being use for like four years at least. Language is ever evolving. Otherwise, we won't be using English like this.

Besides, it seems that the only group of people who decried the usage of They to denote gender-nonconforming being, were the same group of people who didn't like LGBTQA+ people.

 

[MyriadDestiny]

The usage in this context is correct per the today usage, according to Merriam-Webster, Oxford and APA. This kind of usage is being use for like four years at least. Language is ever evolving. Otherwise, we won't be using English like this.

Besides, it seems that the only group of people who decried the usage of They to denote gender-nonconforming being, were the same group of people who didn't like LGBTQA+ people.

The dictionary has it because dictionaries are descriptive—at least some people are using it like that. But just because some people use it like that, doesn't mean it's correct in all contexts across all cultures and across all dialects. The dictionary has entries for things from before 1800s that no one uses anymore, no one would treat that as a socially correct usage even if it's in the dictionary.

Imo translations should (after prioritizing accuracy ofc) generally be as culture-neutral in their word choice as possible because then they can be read by people without the same cultural context of the translator. The translation is meant to focus on the author's work itself, not the culture of the translator. In most English-language media, singular they in this usage is not valid—therefore it should not be used.

And making LGBTQ focused on pronoun usage implies LGBTQ is not really about expressing oneself, it's about imposing your views onto other people. Even if you're Trans, what does that have to do how other people refer to you? You identify as something, that's your own view about yourself.

Personally, I don't inherently have an issue with LGBTQ, but I sure as hell don't support it when this is the behavior of the proponents. I would respect LGBTQ more if they actually tried to be normal instead of shoving it onto other people. We leave you alone, you leave us alone. Not everything needs to be trans or gay.

 

[Kefrayba]

The dictionary has it because dictionaries are descriptive—at least some people are using it like that. But just because some people use it like that, doesn't mean it's correct in all contexts across all cultures and across all dialects. The dictionary has entries for things from before 1800s that no one uses anymore, no one would treat that as a socially correct usage even if it's in the dictionary.

Imo translations should (after prioritizing accuracy ofc) generally be as culture-neutral in their word choice as possible because then they can be read by people without the same cultural context of the translator. The translation is meant to focus on the author's work itself, not the culture of the translator. In most English-language media, singular they in this usage is not valid—therefore it should not be used.

And making LGBTQ focused on pronoun usage implies LGBTQ is not really about expressing oneself, it's about imposing your views onto other people. Even if you're Trans, what does that have to do how other people refer to you? You identify as something, that's your own view about yourself.

Personally, I don't inherently have an issue with LGBTQ, but I sure as hell don't support it when this is the behavior of the proponents. I would respect LGBTQ more if they actually tried to be normal instead of shoving it onto other people. We leave you alone, you leave us alone. Not everything needs to be trans or gay.

Wow... So it's all boiled down to you don't like LGBTQA+ people breaking the "status quo" or "normality" of how cis het expected them to behave. They are not cis het, of course their life are not going to be "normal". Despite all those words claiming that you are not one, you are in fact a homophobic bigot. Your "normal" does not applied to everybody. You are imposing your "normal" to other people. "Normal" in one state does not mean "normal" in another state. And your statement of " I would respect LGBTQ more if they actually tried to be normal instead of shoving it onto other people" is the "normal" talking point of the right-wing homophobic bigots when they tried to keep their masks on.

Many academia and writing standard had accepted Singular They for years now. You may disagree with those standards, but you can't fault people who followed them.

Translation to communicate the original text and context to another language. You know how pronouns works in Japanese language. Just using English's basic pronounce would not be sufficient to convey all the context.

Kris is a holy dragon. Who had been worshiped for centuries. They/them is the best pronoun to use in this context.

 

[MyriadDestiny]

homophobic bigot

I could easily turn it around and say you're a heterophobic bigot too. Stop shoving your crap onto other people. I don't care what you do in your own community, just leave it out of other people's.

Just using English's basic pronounce would not be sufficient to convey all the context

As someone else already suggested, just use It. Holy dragon who's been worshiped for centuries is beyond humans and more of an ideal or tradition. In other words, It. If you really had to avoid It, just use Kris as a name directly like Japanese already does.

 

[Kefrayba]

I could easily turn it around and say you're a heterophobic bigot too. Stop shoving your crap onto other people. I don't care what you do in your own community, just leave it out of other people's.

As someone else already suggested, just use It. Holy dragon who's been worshiped for centuries is beyond humans and more of an ideal or tradition. In other words, It. If you really had to avoid It, just use Kris as a name directly like Japanese already does.

This type of whataboutism is also the classic right-wing deflection method. I can also say that hetero normative ideology that incorporated into all kinds of medias pushed your hetero value into LGBTQA+ people faces everyday. The concept of heterophobia as a discriminatory and oppressive force is questionable. Whereas homophobia can result in the individual and systemic oppression of LGBTQA+ people, there is no evidence to show that so-called heterophobia has ever led to the curtailing of straight people’s rights and liberties.
Not to mention suggesting segregation right off the bat... a racist remark too eh...

Again, the scanlator had already stated that "the whole story is about the MC refusing to view the dragons as things or tools". Judging by the way the MC treating his dragons as peers and valued member of his guild/party. MC would not call the phoenix it. Kris might not care about pronoun, given how laid back they were. But the MC would definitely care. This manga is shown to be mostly from the MC perspective. Not to mention, other dragon guilds will definitely called their dragons it, regardless of the dragon's genders. The MC was shown to be the outlier of the community he was in. The scanlator's choice made it even more clear that the MC didn't think like the normal people in his community.

 

[ZeroMomo]

I could easily turn it around and say you're a heterophobic bigot too. Stop shoving your crap onto other people. I don't care what you do in your own community, just leave it out of other people's.

As someone else already suggested, just use It. Holy dragon who's been worshiped for centuries is beyond humans and more of an ideal or tradition. In other words, It. If you really had to avoid It, just use Kris as a name directly like Japanese already does.

Just that the japanese doesn't use Kris BECAUSE THE DRAGON DOESN'T HAVE A NAME YET YOU DONKEY
I fucking can't

You have absolutely no clue about grammar and you don't even understand the story but "hur dur singular they bad"

 

[MyriadDestiny]

Just that the japanese doesn't use Kris BECAUSE THE DRAGON DOESN'T HAVE A NAME YET YOU DONKEY
I fucking can't

You have absolutely no clue about grammar and you don't even understand the story but "hur dur singular they bad"

Look, I'll give this a pass because Kris is non-human, but if the dragons ever become human then you're gonna have a problem. If they become human, then their characteristics will determine which to use, because pronouns in languages are descriptive—if it looks like a guy then it's "he", if it looks like a girl then it's "she".

And I could say the same to you, you have no clue about grammar as someone translating another culture's work. You're supposed to show us the author's work, not your own crap. And for your information, I have studied Linguistics and Japanese. I'm aware of Descriptivism and Linguistic Relativism. Hence I'm not denying some people use it, but instead I'm stressing to be as neutral as possible. It's not an accepted form for most English speakers and intentionally insisting on using it almost puts you on the same shit level as the translator of Shinozaki-kun no Mente Jijou that keeps insisting the bunny girl is Non-binary when in-raw characters either refer to her as a girl or omit it because Japanese drops them. It's understood from context that she's a girl, don't make it weird and shit.

Most neutrally:
As bones, just refer to "it".
"The divine dragon is long dead, we have its bones."

Once revived and named as Kris, use "Kris". It's understood from context that the character being referred to is Kris, even if the original Japanese omits the referrent noun.

I probably understand grammar better than you do. Singular they isn't any more accurate because the Japanese wouldn't have it either. Japanese would use either use the name or omitted reference, and very rarely 彼/彼女. Otherwise Japanese prefers noun phrase constructions.

 

[ZeroMomo]

Cry me a river..

 

[Kefrayba]

I recently read an article that has this relevant points:

A poignant example of the linguistic entanglement between gender and being-ness is how, when Jane Goodall first tried to get her studies published referring to chimpanzees as he or she, she was challenged by editors of scientific journals, who insisted on referring to each chimp as “it.” Goodall, the badass that she is, didn’t listen. Instead, upon getting the editorial corrections, she would stubbornly change the words back “to rescue the chimpanzees from ‘thing-ness’ and restore them to ‘being-ness,'” according to research cited in Holly Sawyer and Emily Thomas’ 2015 article “Murderbot pronouns: A snapshot of changing gender conventions in the United States.
Source: https://www.themarysue.com/murderbot-readers-baffled-over-casting-choice-for-apple-tv-series/

Again, general populace view dragon as beasts. The MC view them as sentient beings with feelings. Using it pronoun for Kris would betray the MC's POV and the kind of story the author is telling.

 

[colorlesseatstomboys]

Bruh. People are offended someone used singular they. Lmfao
You never can truly satisfy humans.
But Ig it's normal for me to use they as singular since my og language uses plurals as singular as a form of respect or when you aren't familiar with a person.

 

[DedBeet]

things heating up in the mangadex comments

 

[LoliCatFox]

For most of the world they are still used for multiple people, so it's quite jarring.

Really? I'm pretty sure some part of the world also use they when refering to one person sometimes. I myself do that sometimes if I don't know the gender of someone I refer to while talking to my friend.

 

[BlackRockOmega]

trans poisoning the language well is one of the worst things it has done.

 

[RedIce05]

trans poisoning the language well is one of the worst things it has done.

Homophobes and transphobes creating so many inane and pointless discussions is one of the worst things the internet has allowed.

 

[BlackRockOmega]

Homophobes and transphobes creating so many inane and pointless discussions is one of the worst things the internet has allowed.

trans thinking they are important and wanting the world to bend the knee to their pedo cult is inane and pointless as they are not smart enough to know they are wrong and the word doesn't owe them shit.

 

[RedIce05]

trans thinking they are important and wanting the world to bend the knee to their pedo cult is inane and pointless as they are not smart enough to know they are wrong and the word doesn't owe them shit.

Jesus Christ, you are a hateful person. I hope you eventually grow to be better at some point.

 

[2Beans1Cream]

kris' voice in my head sounds like Mereoleona from black clover