Saotome Senshu, Hitakakusu - Vol. 10 Ch. 115 - Saotome Senshu, Stopping by
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@Purplelibraryguy
I can guarantee the general idea isn't pseudoscience. How accurate I represented it, I don't know. I've seen the topic pop up time and time again in podcasts, on reddit and such, and that is the reason. You don't jerk off, eat or any such thing before fights or any nerve racking event. No sex to keep testosterone high as that correlates and causes better physical performance, no food for nerves and to stay alert.
This is one such study that covers what I said.
I can guarantee the general idea isn't pseudoscience. How accurate I represented it, I don't know. I've seen the topic pop up time and time again in podcasts, on reddit and such, and that is the reason. You don't jerk off, eat or any such thing before fights or any nerve racking event. No sex to keep testosterone high as that correlates and causes better physical performance, no food for nerves and to stay alert.
This is one such study that covers what I said.
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@DjAlexDubCheck In the video Michael Jackson did for his song, Smooth Criminal, he does this dance move where he leans his body forward, board stiff, at a seemingly impossible 45 degrees.
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@Yautja The don't eat one sounds really stupid. A bad idea to have a huge meal just before something like that, but you're going to want to grab a bit of starch--you need gas in your tank. Run out of blood sugar and you are toast.
As to the testosterone, in the longer term it seems as if increased testosterone helps build muscle and such, but I'm not aware of any evidence that it does anything much in the immediate term--so it doesn't matter if abstinence increases testosterone, because more testosterone won't matter to the fight. I would say psychological effects would be more important anyway--and there is no psychological boost like having recently had sex with someone you love.
As to the testosterone, in the longer term it seems as if increased testosterone helps build muscle and such, but I'm not aware of any evidence that it does anything much in the immediate term--so it doesn't matter if abstinence increases testosterone, because more testosterone won't matter to the fight. I would say psychological effects would be more important anyway--and there is no psychological boost like having recently had sex with someone you love.
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@Purplelibraryguy
It may sound stupid but it ain't. You don't want food just before a performance of any kind. All kinds of performers say the same thing. That doesn't mean don't eat that day, just not the hours leading up. You seem to be just reacting to an idea instead of knowing anything about the topic.
Again, it seems like you don't really know what you're talking about. Because there sure is plenty of studies and evidence out there to support what I said. You shouldn't make those assertions if you haven't done any studying. And if you wanna talk pseudoscience, that last sentence is pseudoscience. So in fact, the exact opposite of what you thought is true. Sex, specifically before a fight, has negative psychological affects.
It may sound stupid but it ain't. You don't want food just before a performance of any kind. All kinds of performers say the same thing. That doesn't mean don't eat that day, just not the hours leading up. You seem to be just reacting to an idea instead of knowing anything about the topic.
Again, it seems like you don't really know what you're talking about. Because there sure is plenty of studies and evidence out there to support what I said. You shouldn't make those assertions if you haven't done any studying. And if you wanna talk pseudoscience, that last sentence is pseudoscience. So in fact, the exact opposite of what you thought is true. Sex, specifically before a fight, has negative psychological affects.
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@Yautja I was all ready to bow to your superior knowledge, but then I looked at those last two articles. The last article you link doesn't seem like it contains evidence for anything in particular. It does have an interesting quote from an expert, who said
For that matter it strikes me as vanishingly unlikely that any psychological-based claim about why sex before a match is good or bad would apply to everyone (yes, now that I think about it, including the one I made a post or two up). For instance, some people tend to get keyed up and nervous and choke from too much tension; they'd probably perform better after sex. Other people maybe benefit from a massive focus and anger they bring to fighting; they'd probably perform worse after sex. Conformists might harm their performance by getting more nervous if they'd done something that goes against what they'd been told was a good idea (no matter which way that was), contrarians might have their combative mettle enhanced by having just defied a conventional wisdom. And the psychological effects would probably even depend whether it was good sex or not, and who it was with.
With some studies (which would appear not to have been done) you could get a statistical tendency, but it would just be percentages, it wouldn't apply to everyone.
The testosterone articles are more interesting, but still a tad iffy. In both, the really solid stuff is about longer term muscle building. It also looks like there's good evidence of a post-victory effect which makes immediate future victories more likely and that heightened post-victory testosterone is a part of the effect. But other stuff is a bit less clear, not really solid enough to untangle correlation from causation. So for instance, the first article mentions a study of professional rugby players that said when their testosterone was higher they were more likely to win. Sounds like a slam-dunk? No. This is exactly the kind of problem that bedevils research. The problem is that other things have an impact on testosterone level; so for instance, right in the article it notes lack of certain vitamins and, maybe more importantly, high stress, can depress testosterone. So the study could just mean that when the athletes were less stressed, they won more (and being less stressed happened to also result in higher testosterone). It was also a very small study. Still, I won't say there's no basis for some attention to testosterone levels.
Then, the article's author goes on to an almost philosophical discussion of why sex might have a negative psychological impact and concludes on the basis of that just so story that it does, but for me the bottom line is "This has not been tested". It's not a bad just so story, it could perhaps be relevant, but it's not evidence of anything. The other article on the same topic makes exactly the same argument, but again, it's nothing resembling science.
For that matter it strikes me as vanishingly unlikely that any psychological-based claim about why sex before a match is good or bad would apply to everyone (yes, now that I think about it, including the one I made a post or two up). For instance, some people tend to get keyed up and nervous and choke from too much tension; they'd probably perform better after sex. Other people maybe benefit from a massive focus and anger they bring to fighting; they'd probably perform worse after sex. Conformists might harm their performance by getting more nervous if they'd done something that goes against what they'd been told was a good idea (no matter which way that was), contrarians might have their combative mettle enhanced by having just defied a conventional wisdom. And the psychological effects would probably even depend whether it was good sex or not, and who it was with.
With some studies (which would appear not to have been done) you could get a statistical tendency, but it would just be percentages, it wouldn't apply to everyone.
The testosterone articles are more interesting, but still a tad iffy. In both, the really solid stuff is about longer term muscle building. It also looks like there's good evidence of a post-victory effect which makes immediate future victories more likely and that heightened post-victory testosterone is a part of the effect. But other stuff is a bit less clear, not really solid enough to untangle correlation from causation. So for instance, the first article mentions a study of professional rugby players that said when their testosterone was higher they were more likely to win. Sounds like a slam-dunk? No. This is exactly the kind of problem that bedevils research. The problem is that other things have an impact on testosterone level; so for instance, right in the article it notes lack of certain vitamins and, maybe more importantly, high stress, can depress testosterone. So the study could just mean that when the athletes were less stressed, they won more (and being less stressed happened to also result in higher testosterone). It was also a very small study. Still, I won't say there's no basis for some attention to testosterone levels.
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@Purplelibraryguy
For someone claiming or implying to have read them all, good job cherry picking, because the affects on psychology have been observed, as well as other short term affects. You're picking one quote as if it shuts down everything. A quote from nearly a decade ago.
Since you've deigned to be lazy and fallacious, I'll not give you the opportunity. Sex kills competitive drives among many other things. There's a reason men get tired, sleepy and less high strung after sex. The brain releases a mess of chemicals, many of which aren't ideal to have before a fight or physical activity. You want to be high strung, and from there react and act faster. It also, another thing you conveniently ignored, has significant affects on general and athletic behavior; motivation, competitiveness, aggression. Those are some of the short term psychological reasons. Abstaining for 7 days or so results in a 150% increase in testosterone. The physical effects shown involve metabolism, and motor control affects. Do you even exercise? Or know people who do? Because you'll notice that a lot of them notice the affects from sex.
If you're going to seriously make assertions like that; implying that they're biased or half assing connections between testosterone and motivation, and throw out half assed criticisms and pretend other related factors have been ignored, don't skim the articles, actually read them, because from the crap you just put out, I'd be surprised if you read more than 6 sentences of any of what I linked. Those vitamins you're trying and failing to make a point out of are related in their optimization of testosterone. Something related to diet. A thing most athletes tend not to ignore. As for stress, you're reaching real hard with that conclusion. That article wasn't the only one to describe such affects. Also, generalizations are a thing. So yes, while it doesn't apply to literally everyone, it is a general rule. Quit trying to pretend that just because some people are abnormal or function better under exceptions, that said exception have as much of the real estate as the general rule. You're not going to say there's no basis because there is far more then you let on, or know. Either from laziness of maliciousness. No attention to testosterone. What a fucking joke. You're reading like some crack pot trying to spout that correlation between human industrialization and climate change does not mean they're related. You don't seem to have first or second hand knowledge on this.
For someone who wasted their time writing two paragraphs of bullshit, and coupling it with a passive aggressive smear and filler, you didn't do a very good job at making it convincing. Maybe spend less time reading a thesaurus, and relying on verbosity, and more time reading the articles or even doing research of your own. Not been tested my ass. That article was from 2012. It's been quite some time. My "superior knowledge". What a joke. I was being pretty fair since you were spouting out half baked bullshit, but now you're ignoring empirical and anecdotal evidence and you've decided to be a fallacious dick. And that's kind of annoying. So I'll say it again, but less politely. Quit talking shit if you don't know what the hell you're talking about. You've half assed your representation and understanding of what I've linked and I'd wager made no effort, or failed, to find much of anything that supports what you believe.
For someone claiming or implying to have read them all, good job cherry picking, because the affects on psychology have been observed, as well as other short term affects. You're picking one quote as if it shuts down everything. A quote from nearly a decade ago.
Since you've deigned to be lazy and fallacious, I'll not give you the opportunity. Sex kills competitive drives among many other things. There's a reason men get tired, sleepy and less high strung after sex. The brain releases a mess of chemicals, many of which aren't ideal to have before a fight or physical activity. You want to be high strung, and from there react and act faster. It also, another thing you conveniently ignored, has significant affects on general and athletic behavior; motivation, competitiveness, aggression. Those are some of the short term psychological reasons. Abstaining for 7 days or so results in a 150% increase in testosterone. The physical effects shown involve metabolism, and motor control affects. Do you even exercise? Or know people who do? Because you'll notice that a lot of them notice the affects from sex.
If you're going to seriously make assertions like that; implying that they're biased or half assing connections between testosterone and motivation, and throw out half assed criticisms and pretend other related factors have been ignored, don't skim the articles, actually read them, because from the crap you just put out, I'd be surprised if you read more than 6 sentences of any of what I linked. Those vitamins you're trying and failing to make a point out of are related in their optimization of testosterone. Something related to diet. A thing most athletes tend not to ignore. As for stress, you're reaching real hard with that conclusion. That article wasn't the only one to describe such affects. Also, generalizations are a thing. So yes, while it doesn't apply to literally everyone, it is a general rule. Quit trying to pretend that just because some people are abnormal or function better under exceptions, that said exception have as much of the real estate as the general rule. You're not going to say there's no basis because there is far more then you let on, or know. Either from laziness of maliciousness. No attention to testosterone. What a fucking joke. You're reading like some crack pot trying to spout that correlation between human industrialization and climate change does not mean they're related. You don't seem to have first or second hand knowledge on this.
For someone who wasted their time writing two paragraphs of bullshit, and coupling it with a passive aggressive smear and filler, you didn't do a very good job at making it convincing. Maybe spend less time reading a thesaurus, and relying on verbosity, and more time reading the articles or even doing research of your own. Not been tested my ass. That article was from 2012. It's been quite some time. My "superior knowledge". What a joke. I was being pretty fair since you were spouting out half baked bullshit, but now you're ignoring empirical and anecdotal evidence and you've decided to be a fallacious dick. And that's kind of annoying. So I'll say it again, but less politely. Quit talking shit if you don't know what the hell you're talking about. You've half assed your representation and understanding of what I've linked and I'd wager made no effort, or failed, to find much of anything that supports what you believe.
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@Yautja Ofercrissakes. If you're gonna provide links, don't get upset if someone actually takes you seriously and looks at the links. You provided articles, I read 'em, and the ones about the psychology were total crap, OK? Like really, I was being generous about those ones.
Which I suppose made me a tad less forgiving of the other ones. But what marked those ones is that they were perfectly good articles, but were mostly not about what you were talking about, so it was a matter of finding the little bits relevant to your point. But really, you need to chill and not wig out the moment someone challenges the supremacy of your wisdom.
And just because many athletes think something does not necessarily mean it's true, OK? There used to be a tradition among professional football players that you were supposed to eat a huge steak before the game. And I realize it's probably mostly not a thing any more, but the phrase "no pain, no gain" used to be seen as a serious approach to training. In general, there's a bias, not universal by any means, but noticeable, in the athletic community towards believing things that sound badass and going ultraspartan even if it actually does harm. This is definitely somewhere in the "sounds manly and badass" genre, so I think it's reasonable to treat it with a bit of caution. And while a couple of your links do look interesting, your megadefensive attitude about it makes me think less of someone who's sure they're right and more like someone who feels their manliness is under threat, which was not my intent.
Which I suppose made me a tad less forgiving of the other ones. But what marked those ones is that they were perfectly good articles, but were mostly not about what you were talking about, so it was a matter of finding the little bits relevant to your point. But really, you need to chill and not wig out the moment someone challenges the supremacy of your wisdom.
And just because many athletes think something does not necessarily mean it's true, OK? There used to be a tradition among professional football players that you were supposed to eat a huge steak before the game. And I realize it's probably mostly not a thing any more, but the phrase "no pain, no gain" used to be seen as a serious approach to training. In general, there's a bias, not universal by any means, but noticeable, in the athletic community towards believing things that sound badass and going ultraspartan even if it actually does harm. This is definitely somewhere in the "sounds manly and badass" genre, so I think it's reasonable to treat it with a bit of caution. And while a couple of your links do look interesting, your megadefensive attitude about it makes me think less of someone who's sure they're right and more like someone who feels their manliness is under threat, which was not my intent.
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@Purplelibraryguy
Now you're straight up lying. Again. I'm not mad you read the links. In fact, it's the opposite. I'm mad you half ass read them and lied about the contents. I literally tell you multiple times to read them better. Try reading what I said to you. Because if that's the message you got, you're either illiterate or, again, trying to bullshit me. Generous my ass. Yea, the psychology is total crap. Okay. Then find something that contradicts it instead of supports it like I did, because surprise sur-fucking-prise, everything out there says the opposite. You really like to try and make this about me, and not you blatantly bullshitting me or not knowing what you're talking about. Is this what they call... projection?
And just because many scientists think the universe is expanding doesn't necessarily mean it's true. What kind of bullshit sentence was that. You really like to make assertions against things with back, with no backing of your own, don't you? Oh, and now we're changing the subject. No pain no gain as a phrase has evolved. You got a work for something, you got suffer through hard work outs. What a stupid, misrepresented red herring hill to die on. As for the steak thing, a topic I'm unfamiliar with and will take your word for, maybe that's because there's evidence to suggest it isn't a good idea... hmmm something that doesn't seem to be the case for this topic... I wonder why... maybe because there is evidence to contrary and it's factually true unlike this bullshit urban legend you've pulled out of you ass that is an opposite to the case we're discussing?
Yes. Because not having sex is harmful, manly and badass. What another bullshit red herring of an argument that is.
"Couple of your links do look interesting"
Translation: "I have no room to bullshit my way out of this one and do not wanna read them and contrive more bullshit as I've been doing previously."
Yea, continue to make this about me, and literally ignore all of the criticism on you. Keep going. Keep pilling on those passive aggressive insults. I'm getting a severe little man syndrome vibe from you. This clearly has nothing to do with me, but your own projection and insecurity, otherwise, maybe, you'd have substantiated anything you said instead of digging that 6 foot deep hole you're standing in.
Now that you've shown your true colors, I'll give you a fragment of the hostility or arrogance you're pretending I'm exhibiting. You're a moron. You're not reading what I've said. You have no idea what you're talking about. You're outputting bullshit and fallacies. You're trying and failing to anger me and change the subject so you won't look like an idiot, but I haven't forgot what this conversation was about. Testosterone has undeniable short and long term affects on humans, that have anywhere between notable to serious affects on human psychology and physical capabilities. You have not provided a single damn thing to contest this fact, and continue to respond like a half wit to avoid this fact. This has nothing to do with my "supreme wisdom" but your majestic idiocy, little man syndrome, and hocus-pocus flat-earther-esque claims.
Try again. And this time, trying reading what's been said to you, and that includes my previous comment, because if this horseshit is your response, you failed. Hard. You've literally ignored or pretended every inconvenient thing to be untrue or nonexistent.
Now you're straight up lying. Again. I'm not mad you read the links. In fact, it's the opposite. I'm mad you half ass read them and lied about the contents. I literally tell you multiple times to read them better. Try reading what I said to you. Because if that's the message you got, you're either illiterate or, again, trying to bullshit me. Generous my ass. Yea, the psychology is total crap. Okay. Then find something that contradicts it instead of supports it like I did, because surprise sur-fucking-prise, everything out there says the opposite. You really like to try and make this about me, and not you blatantly bullshitting me or not knowing what you're talking about. Is this what they call... projection?
And just because many scientists think the universe is expanding doesn't necessarily mean it's true. What kind of bullshit sentence was that. You really like to make assertions against things with back, with no backing of your own, don't you? Oh, and now we're changing the subject. No pain no gain as a phrase has evolved. You got a work for something, you got suffer through hard work outs. What a stupid, misrepresented red herring hill to die on. As for the steak thing, a topic I'm unfamiliar with and will take your word for, maybe that's because there's evidence to suggest it isn't a good idea... hmmm something that doesn't seem to be the case for this topic... I wonder why... maybe because there is evidence to contrary and it's factually true unlike this bullshit urban legend you've pulled out of you ass that is an opposite to the case we're discussing?
Yes. Because not having sex is harmful, manly and badass. What another bullshit red herring of an argument that is.
"Couple of your links do look interesting"
Translation: "I have no room to bullshit my way out of this one and do not wanna read them and contrive more bullshit as I've been doing previously."
Yea, continue to make this about me, and literally ignore all of the criticism on you. Keep going. Keep pilling on those passive aggressive insults. I'm getting a severe little man syndrome vibe from you. This clearly has nothing to do with me, but your own projection and insecurity, otherwise, maybe, you'd have substantiated anything you said instead of digging that 6 foot deep hole you're standing in.
Now that you've shown your true colors, I'll give you a fragment of the hostility or arrogance you're pretending I'm exhibiting. You're a moron. You're not reading what I've said. You have no idea what you're talking about. You're outputting bullshit and fallacies. You're trying and failing to anger me and change the subject so you won't look like an idiot, but I haven't forgot what this conversation was about. Testosterone has undeniable short and long term affects on humans, that have anywhere between notable to serious affects on human psychology and physical capabilities. You have not provided a single damn thing to contest this fact, and continue to respond like a half wit to avoid this fact. This has nothing to do with my "supreme wisdom" but your majestic idiocy, little man syndrome, and hocus-pocus flat-earther-esque claims.
Try again. And this time, trying reading what's been said to you, and that includes my previous comment, because if this horseshit is your response, you failed. Hard. You've literally ignored or pretended every inconvenient thing to be untrue or nonexistent.
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Translation: "I got caught"
It's not often I get a chance for a genuine and valid "no u". Maybe, just maybe go "I was wrong" instead of digging that hole deeper.
Translation: "I got caught"
It's not often I get a chance for a genuine and valid "no u". Maybe, just maybe go "I was wrong" instead of digging that hole deeper.
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