Taiga of Genesis - Ch. 109 - Recapruting The Western Fortress

[YerRob]

I'm still baffled at how literal WWII soldiers are beaten by teenagers from a peaceful era and no combat training, even if they are from the future, the soldiers should have gotten improvised weapon training for extreme circumstances lmao.

They aren't soldiers, they're descendants of soldiers. They don't have half the combat training that their parents had, and have exactly 0 experience on the western/eastern front

 

[Thank]

I saw that @Thank dude that tried to poke holes in my logic (and have been real quiet since my reply dropped) reacted to you with a laugh. Must've been real salty since I pointed out how weak all his arguments were. Hey @Thank, have you realized the errors of your way yet?

And now, to you: I argue because I don't want to see another n-th series that downplay women. I don't want young readers to mistakenly think this is a normal way to depict and regard women.

My silence has more to do with your tone. I'm not interested in a conversation with someone who approaches discussion with that energy. Also, I did find the way @2hot4you put it funny.

If you think you're right, that's cool. I'm just not going to engage with negativity past a certain point. Have a good one.

 

[nclsdv]

My silence has more to do with your tone. I'm not interested in a conversation with someone who approaches discussion with that energy.

1) Truth is uncomfortable. At a certain point, you realized that it was too difficult to refute me, that your arguments wasn't able to hold a candle in any realistic setting, so you twisted what I said to be a personal attack on you, and blamed "it's the energy". No, I only stated facts: things that happened in the story and their trajectories; the way actual history played out; the shortcomings of your opinions, not you yourself.

If you think you're right, that's cool. I'm just not going to engage with negativity past a certain point. Have a good one.

2) I don't just think I'm right, my man. I have absolutely zero concern with attacking your person, but the justifications you made for the things that happened in the story, on the other hand... As said, I can't leave young readers to think that it's okay and justifiable to depict female characters to be so useless. When you create a story, you're also representing ideals (in this case, ideal about social structure), not just recording a history. Can't just say "it's realistic" and be done with it.

3) Your condescending tone tastes salty. Sure, "have a good one!"

 

[Thank]

1) Truth is uncomfortable. At a certain point, you realized that it was too difficult to refute me, that your arguments wasn't able to hold a candle in any realistic setting, so you twisted what I said to be a personal attack on you, and blamed "it's the energy". No, I only stated facts: things that happened in the story and their trajectories; the way actual history played out; the shortcomings of your opinions, not you yourself.

2) I don't just think I'm right, my man. I have absolutely zero concern with attacking your person, but the justifications you made for the things that happened in the story, on the other hand... As said, I can't leave young readers to think that it's okay and justifiable to depict female characters to be so useless. When you create a story, you're also representing ideals (in this case, ideal about social structure), not just recording a history. Can't just say "it's realistic" and be done with it.

3) Your condescending tone tastes salty. Sure, "have a good one!"

I personally did not find your post to be an affront to myself. I did find the manner in which you worded things to be charged with a certain level of negativity and emotion that I did not want to continue to be a part of, however.

I admit that there may be flaws in my argumentation; the group is indeed more organized than before, for example. There were some misinterpretations, however: while you saw the women going to Taiga as pleading and justifying their existence, I saw it as them discussing the role of women within the group and setting their rights in place. Since Taiga is the leader, that discussion would naturally have to start with him. I should’ve worded it more precisely.

Ultimately, my desire to not engage with you in further discussion is not based in my inability to have a back and forth (or from feeling personally attacked; or fearing truth), but because I believe the conversation will lead nowhere (tone is also the other reason). My apologies if you sensed condescension in my reply to you, as that was not my intention. Like I said in one of my replies to you, my points were (and continue to be) made respectfully. When you approached with “must've been real salty since I pointed out how weak all his arguments were,” you were disrespectful. I think this reinforces the idea that you are approaching the conversation negatively.

Lastly, when you say “...I can't leave young readers to think that it's okay and justifiable to depict female characters to be so useless,” I am left confused. Is this really about young readers? Or is it instead about the opinions/views you wish to impose upon the narrative? Yes, it could be the author’s biases – as you suggested earlier – to depict women in such a manner. But it could also be something logical. Like, for instance, these characters – who happen to be women – adapting poorly to an environment of warfare and death? Women are also not typically physically strong. In an environment where strength is essential (war), men tend perform better. This time does not have weaponry like rifles (excepting the Nazis) to equalize the gap in strength. And making such weaponry is highly unlikely (or too time consuming), even in the most basic form. These are all potential explanations for what you are observing in the story. This is simply my opinion, but I believe you are seeking to affirm/impose your beliefs rather than helping this young viewership you speak of. Once again, if you think you’re right that’s cool. You could be. But you might just be wrong – the same way I might be.

Hopefully this helps to clarify my perspective. I remove myself with no salinity (and condescension, for that matter).

 

[Jackist]

Reminder: This is the start of the civilization. If women don't fight for power now, then patriarchal order will start to seep in with every battle that the men win. We had a powerful female warrior with Tiari, but the Japanese women are just borderline useless. They even made Tiari doubt her own strength. Now once again, one is lying uselessly in labor, while another one is grooming dogs and apologizing left and right. If this is real life, they'd be the ones causing women to be oppressed by men for the next 40,000 years.

Jesus, get off TikTok. Just the fact you casually slip in racism against Japanese woman while also sounding so righteous and justified is the most terrifying part. It’s really terrifying seeing that kind of self justified mania because it just leads people down the path of radicalization over and over again.

 

[nclsdv]

Jesus, get off TikTok. Just the fact you casually slip in racism against Japanese woman while also sounding so righteous and justified is the most terrifying part. It’s really terrifying seeing that kind of self justified mania because it just leads people down the path of radicalization over and over again.

So quick to be a radicalist. I've never used TikTok a day in my life, but since you don't like my truth, I must be one of "them", huh? Them scary TikTok watchers? And then deliberately twist my word as racist? Are these women not Japanese? If the cavegirl Tiari isn't Japanese unlike these girls, then why wouldn't I refer to them as "Japanese women"? You could have intepreted it simply as that - a concise way to refer to the different subjects in discussion - but instead you chose the radicalized version of understanding.

Also, how did you miss the fact that everything I said was contained within the context of the story? It's literally in the first sentence "This is the start of the civilization". Did I say anything about women nowadays should fight? No, I said they should fight there - in this story, at that pivotal moment in history - and even so, arm-in-arm against the Neanderthal enemy, not against their own tribesmen. To put simply, if you want power and position in that dark age, you fight for it. Taiga did. He was initially perceived as weak, thin and naive by the tribe - no different than a woman's physique perceived by a man. Taiga dove in, braved the very real mortal danger, and earned his position. These women can too. They are modern people, they know how to even the playing field. They know there's no need to rely on raw physical strength, unlike the cavemen.

All in all, the narratives you're constantly exposed to become your version of normality. The fact that absolutely no one noticed this opportunity for women, the fact that some easily found a reason to justify these girl's inactions, shows that this image of passivity, non-violence, non-aggresive and submissiveness has become their norm of women. They see that and think it's seems right without any issue whatsoever. Why is it that in a world of absolute violence, aggression and constant killing such as this, you don't see these characters and ever question yourself "huh, how do these delicate snowflakes make sense here?" Trust me, if Taiga acted like that, everyone and their grandpas would've squirmed and called foul a hundred million chapters ago. So, make more stories to normalize a more equal position and strength for women. And while they're still not made, I'll have to resort to reminding people that an alternative version of their favorite patriarchal story could logically exist too.

This is my way of keeping young readers from mistakenly thinking these inherently skewed depictions are logical, acceptable or justifiable.

 

[Jackist]

So quick to be a radicalist. I've never used TikTok a day in my life, but since you don't like my truth, I must be one of "them", huh? Them scary TikTok watchers? And then deliberately twist my word as racist? Are these women not Japanese? If the cavegirl Tiari isn't Japanese unlike these girls, then why wouldn't I refer to them as "Japanese women"? You could have intepreted it simply as that - a concise way to refer to the different subjects in discussion - but instead you chose the radicalized version of understanding.

Also, how did you miss the fact that everything I said was contained within the context of the story? It's literally in the first sentence "This is the start of the civilization". Did I say anything about women nowadays should fight? No, I said they should fight there - in this story, at that pivotal moment in history - and even so, arm-in-arm against the Neanderthal enemy, not against their own tribesmen. To put simply, if you want power and position in that dark age, you fight for it. Taiga did. He was initially perceived as weak, thin and naive by the tribe - no different than a woman's physique perceived by a man. Taiga dove in, braved the very real mortal danger, and earned his position. These women can too. They are modern people, they know how to even the playing field. They know there's no need to rely on raw physical strength, unlike the cavemen.

All in all, the narratives you're constantly exposed to become your version of normality. The fact that absolutely no one noticed this opportunity for women, the fact that some easily found a reason to justify these girl's inactions, shows that this image of passivity, non-violence, non-aggresive and submissiveness has become their norm of women. They see that and think it's seems right without any issue whatsoever. Why is it that in a world of absolute violence, aggression and constant killing such as this, you don't see these characters and ever question yourself "huh, how do these delicate snowflakes make sense here?" Trust me, if Taiga acted like that, everyone and their grandpas would've squirmed and called foul a hundred million chapters ago. So, make more stories to normalize a more equal position and strength for women. And while they're still not made, I'll have to resort to reminding people that an alternative version of their favorite patriarchal story could logically exist too.

This is my way of keeping young readers from mistakenly thinking these inherently skewed depictions are logical, acceptable or justifiable.

Sorry, I meant Reddit obviously. also lay off the Adderall buddy. It’s super obvious and really sad and I am not throwing judgment, just letting you know everyone knows

 

[nclsdv]

Sorry, I meant Reddit obviously. also lay off the Adderall buddy. It’s super obvious and really sad and I am not throwing judgment, just letting you know everyone knows

Trying to brand me TikTok turned out wrong so you flipped immediately to Reddit. If your opinion is that easily swayed, then it doesn't mean anything.

 

[2hot4you]

I saw that @Thank dude that tried to poke holes in my logic (and have been real quiet since my reply dropped) reacted to you with a laugh. Must've been real salty since I pointed out how weak all his arguments were. Hey @Thank, have you realized the errors of your way yet?

And now, to you: I argue because I don't want to see another n-th series that downplay women. I don't want young readers to mistakenly think this is a normal way to depict and regard women.

this is a normal way to depict and regard women based on the setting and the time period. This is literally how it is. No woman are being downplayed, they are all fulfilling their own duty and purpose. If anything, how they are depicted in this manga is more natural than the view you seem to argue for. Your current idealogy, based on your personal surrounding and convictions has nothing to do with the story, and you portraying it as truth and gospel might be more harmfull to young readers than the ones reading the manga.

 

[nclsdv]

this is a normal way to depict and regard women based on the setting and the time period. This is literally how it is. No woman are being downplayed, they are all fulfilling their own duty and purpose. If anything, how they are depicted in this manga is more natural than the view you seem to argue for.

"When you create a story, you're also representing ideals (in this case, ideal about social structure), not just recording a history. Can't just say "it's realistic" and be done with it." - that was from a reply to another person, way before your wrote your reply. I believe I've already explained in details exactly how the women were being downplayed in previous posts. If you'd like to refute me, then I suggest you start from there.

Your current idealogy, based on your personal surrounding and convictions has nothing to do with the story, and you portraying it as truth and gospel might be more harmfull to young readers than the ones reading the manga.

Same as above. I've given my points in full in the posts above. I believe they've all answered every single point you brought up here, before you even wrote this. Try tackling them in a logical and debating sense instead of resorting to labeling and radicalizing, like that @Jackist.

 

[2hot4you]

Yeah i agree with @Thank , not worth the time to discuss this with you as you are clearly not here to have a faithfull discussion

 

[Jackist]

Trying to brand me TikTok turned out wrong so you flipped immediately to Reddit. If your opinion is that easily swayed, then it doesn't mean anything.

Of course my opinion means nothing, same with you. Why would someone's opinion mean anything to anyone? It's their own brain, why would it matter? Oh... I see.

 

[nclsdv]

you are clearly not here to have a faithfull discussion

I'm not here to start a discussion, as I see it needs no discussion. I'm here to tell a truth - backed by compelling evidence, if necessary. Just as there's really no point to "discuss" with a child whether "fire is hot", it's more helpful for the child to just know that it's hot and dangerous to put your hand into fire. Same logic, it's not worth it to discuss whether "these girls can fight to gain power and respect", it's more helpful to just know that they can - and should already be doing it 1000 chapters ago. At least knowing it is better than being tricked into thinking everything here is fine.

It's you guys who wanted to break it into technicalities such as "fire is not hot compared to abcxyz" and "these girls aren't useless and dooming women's future in this society, they're just acting natural abcxyz"; calling me names such as radicalist, racist, TikToker, Redditor, etc. Aside from one guy who tried to dispute my truths with somewhat reasonable arguments (and thus moved the conversation forward), the rest of you are just looking for something to blame and not really being useful to anyone.

 

[doutatsu]

Yeah i agree with @Thank , not worth the time to discuss this with you as you are clearly not here to have a faithfull discussion

Dropped by to read reactions to cool fights and civilization building. Ended up stumbling on some delusional person talking about patriarchy 😩 Wasn't on my bingo card, that's for sure.

Anyways, as a sucker for country-building series, I look forward to them building one. I hope we'll see past the conflict and more cool technology-making with walled-cities.

 

[JoppieTheTurtle]

Everyone out here talking about civil rights and stuff while I was thinking “oh shoot, he’s about to cut that monkey’s balls off”

 

[koftgh]

Reminder: This is the start of the civilization. If women don't fight for power now, then patriarchal order will start to seep in with every battle that the men win. We had a powerful female warrior with Tiari, but the Japanese women are just borderline useless. They even made Tiari doubt her own strength. Now once again, one is lying uselessly in labor, while another one is grooming dogs and apologizing left and right. If this is real life, they'd be the ones causing women to be oppressed by men for the next 40,000 years.

The manga, in this instance, adheres to a realistic portrayal of societal structures. The patriarchy, as history demonstrates, is the natural order. Do you truly believe that women can 'girl boss' their way into the brutal and unforgiving realm of medieval warfare? Such notions are unreasonable. Historically, whenever women have ascended to power, their reigns have invariably led to the downfall of their realms. Since the dawn of civilization, it has been evident that women are unsuited to political leadership. Should you require evidence, I implore you to consult any history book; the record is unequivocal. Furthermore, if one wishes to observe the adverse effects of deviating from patriarchal norms, one need only look outside and witness the consequences.

 

[koftgh]

You're applying normal logic, assuming everything happens according to actual history. No, this is a group of modern people. The women know about the patriarchal state of the world and its negative effects on women. The group already started to alter history with all their technological advancements, why societal structure is any different? Why technology development can be fast-forwarded, but social development can't? We all know where this hunter-gatherer division of labor leads. We're living in it.

Your argument of "breeding dogs useful" doesn't matter when it's power structure in question. Human physical strength is insignificant, we all know that. Compared to animals, our raw strength means nothing. However, a man or a woman piloting a tank is equally destructive - and in front of its canon, gender means nothing. There's nothing stopping the women from creating modernistic tools and weapons to go to war - nothing but themselves. Especially in this setting, where these women can-and-are setting the foundation for all women's position in the human civilization. It's okay if they aren't aware of their pivotal role, but they are. They are modern people, after all (history students, to boot).

Again, history has already proven that it's ridiculous to put all your hope (and the future of an entire gender) onto one person. Monarchy and feudalism have already failed. We all know how the right shape of society is supposed to look like. There's no logical reason to regress all the progress human have made in ruling and governing, just because they're in the wrong period in time. They are modern people, they are already altering the progression of science, warfare, agriculture, etc., so there's no reason to skip altering governing and social structure.

Your argument fails to account for the immutable laws of human nature and the complex dynamics of societal evolution. While modern individuals may possess advanced technological knowledge, altering the deeply ingrained social structures of a medieval society is not a simple matter of will. The rapid development of technology does not equate to an equally rapid shift in societal norms, which are the product of millennia of human experience and adaptation. The notion that modern people can effortlessly reshape governance and social hierarchies ignores the resistance to change inherent in human societies. Additionally, the idea that physical strength is irrelevant disregards the fundamental realities of historical warfare, where brute force often determined survival. Lastly, entrusting the future of governance to untested and ideologically driven individuals risks catastrophic failure, as history has repeatedly shown that well-intentioned social experiments often lead to unintended consequences and instability.

 

[nclsdv]

The manga, in this instance, adheres to a realistic portrayal of societal structures. The patriarchy, as history demonstrates, is the natural order. Do you truly believe that women can 'girl boss' their way into the brutal and unforgiving realm of medieval warfare? Such notions are unreasonable. Historically, whenever women have ascended to power, their reigns have invariably led to the downfall of their realms. Since the dawn of civilization, it has been evident that women are unsuited to political leadership. Should you require evidence, I implore you to consult any history book; the record is unequivocal. Furthermore, if one wishes to observe the adverse effects of deviating from patriarchal norms, one need only look outside and witness the consequences.

Found the sexist. Who was the longest reigned Queen of England - and how did she keep the monarchy going in this day and age? Who was the Chancellor of Germany until 2021? Modern society have already arrived at a place for women to lead and thrive. There are plenty of women in positions of power - CEOs, managers, representatives, etc. - in current society. Saying "patriarchy is the natural order" is as wrong as it is ignorant. Earliest societies are mostly matriarchal. There are still matriarchal influenced societies existing until this day. But we all know that neither of them are the right form of society. Rather, it's an equalized form what we should strive for.

Regarding the rest of the arguments you raised (physical strength, culture clash, resistance to change, etc.), I've already answered them in previous threads. You raised no new points.

So, sexist, sit down, and clam it. You are not deserved to speak. Your mindset is foul and should be put down.

 

[koftgh]

Found the sexist. Who was the longest reigned Queen of England - and how did she keep the monarchy going in this day and age? Who was the Chancellor of Germany until 2021? Modern society have already arrived at a place for women to lead and thrive. There are plenty of women in positions of power - CEOs, managers, representatives, etc. - in current society. Saying "patriarchy is the natural order" is as wrong as it is ignorant. Earliest societies are mostly matriarchal. There are still matriarchal influenced societies existing until this day. But we all know that neither of them are the right form of society. Rather, it's an equalized form what we should strive for.

Regarding the rest of the arguments you raised (physical strength, culture clash, resistance to change, etc.), I've already answered them in previous threads. You raised no new points.

So, sexist, sit down, and clam it. You are not deserved to speak. Your mindset is foul and should be put down.

Your argument overlooks the fundamental complexities of human society and the enduring nature of its structures. Do you genuinely believe that modern knowledge alone can overturn the entrenched social hierarchies that have been honed over millennia? It's akin to expecting a single gust of wind to alter the course of a mighty river. Technology may accelerate progress in certain fields, yet societal norms and governance are deeply rooted in historical precedent and human behavior. You speak of piloting tanks and wielding modern weapons as if mere tools can equalize centuries of social evolution. Yet, who will pilot these tanks, and who will follow them into battle, when tradition and fear still hold sway? Expecting instantaneous social reform in a medieval context is not just naive; it’s dangerously hubristic. Have we not learned from the countless utopian experiments that crumbled under the weight of their own idealism? To dismiss the slow, often painful evolution of social structures is to ignore the very fabric of history. Can we afford such folly?

sexist

I prefer the term realist. And -of course,- you're a defender of modernity, armed with selective history and hollow proclamations. Who was the longest-reigned Queen of England? Elizabeth II, a figurehead in a constitutional monarchy, her power largely ceremonial. And the Chancellor of Germany until 2021? Angela Merkel, a singular example rather than the rule. Do these exceptions nullify the millennia of patriarchal structure that have defined human society? Hardly. You mention CEOs, managers, representatives-symbols of progress, yes, but still a minority in the grand tapestry of governance. And those earliest societies you claim were matriarchal? They were anomalies, quickly supplanted by patriarchal systems that proved more resilient and enduring. Do you truly believe a smattering of modern success stories can rewrite the natural order honed over countless generations? It's akin to expecting a single wave to reshape the ocean. Technology may be a swift current, but societal norms are the bedrock, resistant to the whims of idealists. To dismiss the profound and deliberate evolution of these structures is to embrace folly. Can we afford to ignore the lessons of history, to believe that superficial progress equates to true equality? Your vitriol, your name-calling -"sexist"- is a feeble attempt to silence reasoned discourse. It is not the mark of a superior argument but of a mind unable to confront uncomfortable truths. Your mindset, grounded in modern fantasies, is what should be re-evaluated. For it is reason and reality, not invective, that will ultimately prevail.