Tengoku Daimakyou - Vol. 10 Ch. 56 - Aoshima Yuuko

[Rogojinen]

What the hell are you talking about it basically outright told us after the 50th crybait scene just in case somebody still hasnt caught on

C'me on, no need to pretend you got it all figured out, at the first hint or that you'd never have missed any without the collective discussions online pointing out some that might have escaped you. For example, I see a picture of the first Hiruko we encountered. Is it every explicitly said that it's Taka? No. Is it a fair assumption, given how his invisible slashes worked, now that we know he died so most likely turned into a monster next? Yes. Did every reader remember about this early monster and connected the dotes? Did everyone realized for sure that that Tamako (?), the hotel Tycoon was his and Anzu's daughter? Againn no. It's like this for every character, every plotpoint.

This manga is subtle and carefully constructed. Which is why how the rape was handled, so far, is a bit jarring. It's also to me too soon to say so for certain, as many have pointed out, avoidance is a common defense mechanism. For now, all we can say is if we trust the author or not to eventually stick the landing.

I think that there's already plenty of resolutions that paid off and earned them some credit. When we'll see Robin again will be the litmus test, as Kiruko and Maru will have to confront him and all he wrought.

 

[Kampfarsch]

C'me on, no need to pretend you got it all figured out, at the first hint or that you'd never have missed any without the collective discussions online pointing out some that might have escaped you. For example, I see a picture of the first Hiruko we encountered. Is it every explicitly said that it's Taka? No. Is it a fair assumption, given how his invisible slashes worked, now that we know he died so most likely turned into a monster next? Yes. Did every reader remember about this early monster and connected the dotes? Did everyone realized for sure that that Tamako (?), the hotel Tycoon was his and Anzu's daughter? Againn no. It's like this for every character, every plotpoint.

This manga is subtle and carefully constructed. Which is why how the rape was handled, so far, is a bit jarring. It's also to me too soon to say so for certain, as many have pointed out, avoidance is a common defense mechanism. For now, all we can say is if we trust the author or not to eventually stick the landing.

I think that there's already plenty of resolutions that paid off and earned them some credit. When we'll see Robin again will be the litmus test, as Kiruko and Maru will have to confront him and all he wrought.

We had literally no reason to assume that the monsters are the transformed kids at the start
We didnt even have the hint that they share the same powers there was no connection
We didnt even know that the scenes with the kids were taking place in the past and not just somewhere else

 

[coyote_vdb]

Yeah, sure.
Going meta for a bit and acknowledging the authors fetishes and the fact that the we are an all seeing observer that can read the characters thoughts these "signs" seem coincidental at best.
This series isnt exactly known for being subtle about anything so you are just giving the author too much credit/reading into it too much IMO.

What a weird comment. This series is quite subtle and provides a huge quantity of information in very indirect but very consistent ways. In fact, having access to the characters' thoughts is quite uncommon on this manga. Most of the information is given visually. You have to interpret the reactions of the characters, they're not explained to you, and fact is that all their reactions make sense, particularly about all the rape aftermath where Kiruko's response is consistent with real life researches as well as with the context of this story.
If one is just willing to fly over each chapter in 2 mn, missing most of its content, I understand that one may express an opinion like yours, but I don't see the point. One should read something else.

 

[asdasgfrw]

A woman is only fertile for at most 10 days out of her (28 day?) cycle. The rest of the time, you can go at it like bunnies and nothing will happen.

Yeah sure bro

 

[mendics]

I mean they have a point, it could be a red herring, to give the readers some sense of false security, then bam, more tragedy. Everyone would want our characters to be happy, but we can't trust the author after dropping that rep scene on us. It's fair for people to be cautious.

 

[tastes]

I still can't gripe on the whole Kiruko concept. A dude gets his brain put on a girl's body... he's clearly still himself... but treats all romance like a girl in a manga would down to all the typical romance cliches a mangaka who's never dated has. And has no fear of emasculation whatsoever one would expect a straight kid who didn't have much personal growth would have.

I feel the artist is about to write himself into a corner and needs to pivot hard on the brain transplant concept, or make Haruki come out of the closet. I thought I was gonna see some entertaining ethical dilemmas, ie Maru outright not buying the whole brain transplant thing, unwittingly gaslighting Kiruko after he got raped in that shitty twist but... at the direction it's going, it seems it will be all get thrown out of the window and Haruki as a character will basically disappear without any good reason.

You don't go this far into bodyswap stuff without asking yourself "why did I write this" - but I suspect any intention of exploring sexual orientation / identity themes got put under the carpet after he realized his fans in Japan would crucify him if he denied them the Pretty Girl Wish Fulfillment.

edit: got my tongue twisted

 

[tastes]

What a weird comment. This series is quite subtle and provides a huge quantity of information in very indirect but very consistent ways. In fact, having access to the characters' thoughts is quite uncommon on this manga. Most of the information is given visually. You have to interpret the reactions of the characters, they're not explained to you, and fact is that all their reactions make sense, particularly about all the rape aftermath where Kiruko's response is consistent with real life researches as well as with the context of this story.
If one is just willing to fly over each chapter in 2 mn, missing most of its content, I understand that one may express an opinion like yours, but I don't see the point. One should read something else.

Figuring out who was who is definitely the funniest part of this manga. That 'click' when you realize Tokio's story was a flashback is unforgettable

 

[Rogojinen]

I still can't gripe on the whole Kiruko concept. A dude gets his brain put on a girl's body... he's clearly still himself... but treats all romance like a girl in a manga would down to all the typical romance cliches a mangaka who's never dated has. And has no fear of emasculation whatsoever one would expect a straight kid who didn't have much personal growth would have.

I feel the artist is about to write himself into a corner and needs to pivot hard on the brain transplant concept, or make Hiruko come out of the closet. I thought I was gonna see some entertaining ethical dilemmas, ie Maru outright not buying the whole brain transplant thing, unwittingly gaslighting Kiruko after he got raped in that shitty twist but... at the direction it's going, it seems it will be all get thrown out of the window and Hiruko as a character will basically disappear without any good reason.

You don't go this far into bodyswap stuff without asking yourself "why did I write this" - but I suspect any intention of exploring sexual orientation / identity themes got put under the carpet after he realized his fans in Japan would crucify him if he denied them the Pretty Girl Wish Fulfillment.

I agree, some of those themes that should be at least addressed are bit glossed over. I totally understand why Haruki goes around with his new female porte-manteau name, to represent the confusing state he was left in and honor somehow his sister by still using her name as much as he could. Also that it's simply more convenient to not have to try to explain the whole body-swap thing and look crazy.

"Fine. I have a woman's body, so I'm gonna roll with it for now." But still, when Maru confesses, Haruki tells him who he is. A man.

Which is why I'm a bit ambivalent seeing next Maru keep on calling him 'sis' because it's more convenient. (Just like I'm still puzzled by Haruki's whole deal with his sister. are they related? Is it just filial love, incest thrown all willy-nilly like in many mangas, or romantic love if she's just an older orphan he always looked up to?) I get that it's also more convenient to not have to constantly switch to another name and pronouns when they're in public or private, I would really like to see Maru call him Haruki when it matters. Otherwise, it really looks like Maru doesn't care about the whole reveal or that he's only adding to Haruki's confusion by acting like if only 'Kiruko' matters, when there's more to it.

But since the ship between Maru and Kiruko seems to still be going strong, I think the author might go with it on that front. Haruki was just a boy after all, that didn't exactly have the time to question his sexuality, maybe even start to have the notion of it, so even if it's not easy to reject heteronormativity without that, I could see him just accept that he loves Maru, no matter who he is, his gender, etc. This is all details that don't have to matter.

I think another good opportunity to resolve this will be if Kiruko ever has the possibility to get another body. If he'll go through with it, or if he's after all fine to accept what happened to him; if he prefers to not have to abandon Kiriko's body and grieve his sister completely.

I think Kiruko will stay as is, since that seems to be where it's headed. There's in essence not much difference between being a man and a woman, no matter the million ways he'll have encountered since the change telling him otherwise, scarring that reality and divide into him through his abuse, for example. No matter if it was a brutal reminder of the feminine condition, he must know that it was most of all a betrayal from Robin, that would have happened in some capacity whether he wanted to rape someone or not. It didn't happen because of anything Haruki did or because of who he is, no, it's only ever because of the rapist and his scum nature and choices.

Same for much more pallatable matter, like love and purpose, when Haruki has never been more capable than since he went out to live as a merc, tits notwithstanding.

Same for Maru. Even if the details are confusing, he just shrugs everything off. He's aware that he wouldn't have developed feelings if he didn't think Kiruko was a woman at first, but he did now, and either way, he would have loved and be friends with Haruki. It's super divisive but I hope the author will be bold enough to explore again those questions, because it's interesting and exactly like learning that the person you're in love with his trans, and all the questions it brings when most people never had to consider where they stood, how fluid sexuality can be.

"Does it matter? Does it change anything for me? Do I have to change one of my little labels informing people on my attraction to an entire sex, or do I paradoxically not have to since that's the point? Is it even relevant anymore to talk about attraction to everyone else when I only care about them now?"

You're missing the point in love matters if you wonder about 'what' when it's only ever about 'who'.

 

[Theozilla]

I agree, some of those themes that should be at least addressed are bit glossed over. I totally understand why Haruki goes around with his new female porte-manteau name, to represent the confusing state he was left in and honor somehow his sister by still using her name as much as he could. Also that it's simply more convenient to not have to try to explain the whole body-swap thing and look crazy.

"Fine. I have a woman's body, so I'm gonna roll with it for now." But still, when Maru confesses, Haruki tells him who he is. A man.

Which is why I'm a bit ambivalent seeing next Maru keep on calling him 'sis' because it's more convenient. (Just like I'm still puzzled by Haruki's whole deal with his sister. are they related? Is it just filial love, incest thrown all willy-nilly like in many mangas, or romantic love if she's just an older orphan he always looked up to?) I get that it's also more convenient to not have to constantly switch to another name and pronouns when they're in public or private, I would really like to see Maru call him Haruki when it matters. Otherwise, it really looks like Maru doesn't care about the whole reveal or that he's only adding to Haruki's confusion by acting like if only 'Kiruko' matters, when there's more to it.

But since the ship between Maru and Kiruko seems to still be going strong, I think the author might go with it on that front. Haruki was just a boy after all, that didn't exactly have the time to question his sexuality, maybe even start to have the notion of it, so even if it's not easy to reject heteronormativity without that, I could see him just accept that he loves Maru, no matter who he is, his gender, etc. This is all details that don't have to matter.

I think another good opportunity to resolve this will be if Kiruko ever has the possibility to get another body. If he'll go through with it, or if he's after all fine to accept what happened to him; if he prefers to not have to abandon Kiriko's body and grieve his sister completely.

I think Kiruko will stay as is, since that seems to be where it's headed. There's in essence not much difference between being a man and a woman, no matter the million ways he'll have encountered since the change telling him otherwise, scarring that reality and divide into him through his abuse, for example. No matter if it was a brutal reminder of the feminine condition, he must know that it was most of all a betrayal from Robin, that would have happened in some capacity whether he wanted to rape someone or not. It didn't happen because of anything Haruki did or because of who he is, no, it's only ever because of the rapist and his scum nature and choices.

Same for much more pallatable matter, like love and purpose, when Haruki has never been more capable than since he went out to live as a merc, tits notwithstanding.

Same for Maru. Even if the details are confusing, he just shrugs everything off. He's aware that he wouldn't have developed feelings if he didn't think Kiruko was a woman at first, but he did now, and either way, he would have loved and be friends with Haruki. It's super divisive but I hope the author will be bold enough to explore again those questions, because it's interesting and exactly like learning that the person you're in love with his trans, and all the questions it brings when most people never had to consider where they stood, how fluid sexuality can be.

"Does it matter? Does it change anything for me? Do I have to change one of my little labels informing people on my attraction to an entire sex, or do I paradoxically not have to since that's the point? Is it even relevant anymore to talk about attraction to everyone else when I only care about them now?"

You're missing the point in love matters if you wonder about 'what' when it's only ever about 'who'.

To answer one of your questions, yes Haruki and Kiriko are blood related (as what the narrative has established), in addition to sharing the same family name of “Takehaya”, we also see in one of the montages in chapter 44 Haruki and Kiriko when they were 3 and 5 respectively in 2024 during the immediate aftermath of the Nibiru asteroid impact.
And yes the implication was that Haruki held incestuous feelings for Kiriko.

 

[coyote_vdb]

I still can't gripe on the whole Kiruko concept. A dude gets his brain put on a girl's body... he's clearly still himself...

I'm not so sure about that.
Kiruko's identity crisis is actually spanning all the manga and there are signs from the beginning that she doesn't just react as a man. And since her female body functions starts working again, we see that she is more and more confused and adjusting to her being a new person altogether. The discussion on the riverside after being saved is completely about this and it's clear that Kiruko does not refute it when Maru tells her she's a new person. It's also clear during her "captivity" that she has the feeling of "turning into his sister and liking the idea".
So for me, it's pretty clear on the contrary that Kiruko is more and more considering herself as a woman and that the resolution path of her identity crisis is going that way.

 

[tastes]

To answer one of your questions, yes Haruki and Kiriko are blood related (as what the narrative has established),

Have the guidebooks established that?

I'm not so sure about that.

I got hold of some translations of the guidebook snippets. There's indeed author statements of Kiriko influencing Haruki from the get go, which raises the question of what exactly the brain transplant is, as a literal brain transplant wouldn't make sense in this scenario.

 

[Theozilla]

Have the guidebooks established that?


I got hold of some translations of the guidebook snippets. There's indeed author statements of Kiriko influencing Haruki from the get go, which raises the question of what exactly the brain transplant is, as a literal brain transplant wouldn't make sense in this scenario.

In as such it’s reiterated what’s already been shown and established in the manga. They share the same family name, and they were literally being raised in the same household when they were 3 and 5 in 2024 (presumably by their parents, who they likely lost in the aftermath of the Nibiru asteroid, hence why they are crying in chapter 44 as toddlers).

And yes it was a full brain transplant the series’ has explicitly established that repeatedly already. Kiruko having remnant memories from Kiriko could perhaps suggest maybe remnant cells of Kiriko’s brain remained in her brain-case (or maybe a little bit of the brain-stem was left-over). But Kiriko’s brain as a whole had been shot and thus was removed by Sawatari/Sakota in the transplant to save Haruki’s brain.

Though the Doylistic reason behind Kiruko having remnant memories of Kiriko is likely due to Ishiguro drawing inspiration from the old science-fiction novel “Dogra Magra” (that was/is a major influence on Ishiguro for the Heavenly Delusion series) where characters in that argue that a person’s memories aren’t just stored in a individual’s brain, and that the rest of the human body can hold memories in some manner.

 

[minmod]

I think some of you readers really need to re-read the manga if you really didn't understand that Haruki had incestuous feelings and other things like the brain transplants, which are pretty clearly laid out in the story.

 

[Crunchyapple]

I really hope someone hacks mangadex again so the comments can be shut down for 3 or so years.

 

[OneeSamaaaa]

She's probably pregnant she's probably just lying. Robin and his men filled her with their semen for 3 days. All of them probably had her at least 10 times each, ejaculating inside every time.

Can you not be fucking weird?

 

[eddard8]

Kiruko when possessions of people they find comfort in:

Man of culture. I wish the author focus more on this series

 

[SpicyLove627]

I still can't gripe on the whole Kiruko concept. A dude gets his brain put on a girl's body... he's clearly still himself... but treats all romance like a girl in a manga would down to all the typical romance cliches a mangaka who's never dated has. And has no fear of emasculation whatsoever one would expect a straight kid who didn't have much personal growth would have.

I feel the artist is about to write himself into a corner and needs to pivot hard on the brain transplant concept, or make Haruki come out of the closet. I thought I was gonna see some entertaining ethical dilemmas, ie Maru outright not buying the whole brain transplant thing, unwittingly gaslighting Kiruko after he got raped in that shitty twist but... at the direction it's going, it seems it will be all get thrown out of the window and Haruki as a character will basically disappear without any good reason.

You don't go this far into bodyswap stuff without asking yourself "why did I write this" - but I suspect any intention of exploring sexual orientation / identity themes got put under the carpet after he realized his fans in Japan would crucify him if he denied them the Pretty Girl Wish Fulfillment.

edit: got my tongue twisted

Shows how little you know. The author is married. All it takes is a quick Google search to know that.

 

[sotokouya]

feeling like pointing our that sawatari/sakota's sacrifice wasn't in vain because it helps delaying it until michika arrived

 

[tastes]

Shows how little you know. The author is married. All it takes is a quick Google search to know that.

Colour me surprised. Doesn't remove the fact the Kiruko issue has gotten so far-fetched the only way out now is revealing Kiriko didn't fully die.

 

[1234muse]

Colour me surprised. Doesn't remove the fact the Kiruko issue has gotten so far-fetched the only way out now is revealing Kiriko didn't fully die.

what.
??????????? flat out hole in head. kiriko is gone. G O N E
it was revealed a couple chapters ago, and has been hinted at the entire story. sorry not everyone fits into your black and white catagory of what gender is. it's not that simple, and steryotypes are and always have been steryotypes.