Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken - Vol. 12 Ch. 54 - A Prelude to Catastrophe

[Zephyrus]

@Meister61
It's fine to disagree with someone. We encourage thoughtful discussion! However, you went too far in your post, which has been found to violate 5.1, Be Civil.

Consider how to post more thoughtfully in the future and acquaint yourself with our rules here: https://mangadex.org/rules

Thanks,

Zeph

 

[ninjadork]

@Meister61 I have an appointment to go to, so I'm going to have to keep this short. As an aside, I'm going to assume you're talking about the Catholic church and the USA, since you're apparently too busy choking on your bile to be clear.

You might also want to restrain your dogma a bit; you're coming perilously close to violating Mangadex rules of propriety. But that's a mod's decision, not mine.

Something else I find interesting is that you speak in absolute terms as if you think the church is capable of solving all the world's ills. If that's what you do believe, I think you're rather silly and don't really understand what you're demanding.

Spoiler

"They have billions, yet people are starving".
I'm not even going to provide a link; 15 seconds of using google or duckduckgo (try "catholic church food program" without the quotes) will more often than not find you a Catholic Church food program that you can access from wherever you live. Especially if you add specific locations to it.

"They have a plethora of rooms, yet there's so many homeless"

Tell me, are you expecting the church to wage war against the government to house the homeless? Especially after the government passes laws and takes action to destroy/kick out said homeless? These links come courtesy from the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, UPI, and the Atlantic respectively.

https://nlchp.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/No_Safe_Place
https://nlchp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/09.19.18_Puyallup (Add a .pdf to these first two if you want to download and read)
https://www.upi.com/Homeless-advocates-sue-officials-over-property-lost-in-camp-sweeps/7771538144507/
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/rluipa/543504/

"They have numerous treasures of wisdom, yet all hidden from the general population so they hold all the power"
Like what? Burden of proof falls on the accuser, so tell me what they are hiding.

"They aid and do child rape and murder and protect the ones who do it"
That's a real interesting problem. See, there's an old joke, older than anyone living today, which goes; "Is the Pope Catholic?" It's a reference to how some Popes tend to waste their time on stupid bullshit when they should be keeping their house (the Church) in order. Here's something you might find intriguing;

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/17/pope-benedict-defrocked-400-priests-child-abuse

Prior to Pope Francis, under Pope Benedict's tenure, the Church was very invested in hunting down and punishing priests guilty of sexual abuses. Now consider this;

https://www.chicagocatholic.com/u.s./-/article/2018/11/12/vatican-asks-usccb-to-delay-votes-on-sex-abuse-response-proposals
https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/pope-francis-demands-action-from-bishops-as-sex-abuse-summit-opens/

And

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2018-12/cop24-call-for-climate-action-as-summit-nears-conclusion.html

Some questions for you, from three different angles;
1) Pope Benedict busted his ass trying to get a handle on this and shut it down. Why has Pope Francis halted these policies and delayed action? Why did he shut down the American Council of Bishops meeting when they tried to do something about this, only to drag some of those very same bishops to Rome for bread and circuses?
2) Why the fuck is the Pope spending his time bitching about climate change when the Church is being rocked by sex scandals?
3) Is it perhaps vaguely, potentially, possibly possible that the things you complain about are direct vindication of my claim that "their greatest failures come about when they subordinate themselves (or fall prey) to secular powers"?

EDIT: Let me know if any of those links are broken, and I'll try to fix them. Also, I put the refutation under a spoiler to save space.

EDIT: Holy crap you're fast, Zeph.

 

[Cruentus]

@elfalas
Your knowledge of history is lacking, just as the knowledge of European history among Japanese authors tends to be.

It's more rare for a church to be an organization for good in anime and manga primarily for two reasons: One, an organization for good doesn't produce much conflict, and conflict is necessary for a story. Two, modern Japan's treatment of religion is radically different from that in the anglosphere, with a close association between someone "finding religion" and "joining a cult." Taking religious beliefs seriously just isn't as normal in the culture. Cultural expectations and "wouldn't it be cool" both become reflected in writing.

 

[ninjadork]

@Cruentus @elfalas In particular, WW2 left Japan with a really big aversion to religion because many of them still remember the worst excesses under Imperial Japan and their God-Emperor. If they aren't old enough to remember directly, they're likely old enough to remember the fallout. IIRC, Jin-Roh: Wolf Brigade (interesting movie, you can find it on Youtube) was a pseudo-historical dramatization of Japanese problems dealing with the aftermath of the collapse of IJ.

 

[kwendy]

If you think about it, it's reasonable enough to soft restrain religion as it is creating foreign influence. Quite like dilemma of holy knighs in this chapter, but more sublte: it could be great thing for one nation but antagonistic for other.

 

[exia00111]

Spoiler

So, we should be having demon lord Rimuru within the year. Might even get to the beginning of Walpuris by the end of 2019.

 

[blitzarc]

Can mangadex please block this translator from sniping popular title from other translator.

This manga has been tranlator by shurim translator for more than a year and now it get famous some random kids stealing it away for the sake of popularity. Please make it stop.

 

[criver]

@ninjadork
Here's the thing, you assert that "their greatest failures come about when they subordinate themselves (or fall prey) to secular powers" and I mostly agree with you. The problem is, however, how do you differentiate between what 'true believers' are and ones that are in for some benefit - in most cases you can't. An even bigger problem is how do you qualify a 'true believer'. The matter is this complex because the bible can be interpreted in too many ways to count. So this gets very close to a "no true Scotsman" argument. There are more than enough examples throughout history of the church being, as what one would describe, "evil". Take for example the Inquisition, witch hunts, denial of science (e.g. Galilei), pseudo-science ('healing' through prayer), crusades, wars, etc. The thing with religion is that it is very easy for someone to fall prey to self-confirmation bias and denial of anything that challenges his views. Were there(and are there still) pluses to the whole? Sure, it's not exactly black and white. Some people need the reassuring thought that some omnipotent being is watching over them, or need a simple set of moral guidelines. That however does not erase all the wrongdoings performed in the name of religion or by the church.

 

[Hurokun]

@blitzarc i dont think so?
not taking a project that already have a translator is more like an unspoken agreement between translators than a "rule"
i agree its not nice, but not much can be done. just dont read i guess =/

 

[Extremfight]

Rip tempest 😭

Too fast!!!

 

[ninjadork]

@criver Future reference; I need to exit this site down before I start gathering the paperwork; too many good debates springing up, and I can't address them as thoroughly as I want.

Your whole comment can effectively be boiled down to the old conundrum about Type 1 and Type 2 errors. In this case; destroy the innocent and guilty alike, or spare the innocent and risk the guilty going free? I think history demonstrates that if we want a humane civilization where people consistently live and love and grow, we must err on the side of Type 2 errors.

I oversimplified a bit, but bear with me.

 

[cherokeemoon]

NOOO LMAO WHAT THE FUCK

 

[NuMu]

Came for a nice discussion about that cliffhanger ending, but found people hating on Catholics. What the fuck?

 

[CinderKin]

Well, they ARE monsters. Lots of ppl get their living of killing/using monsters

There is 0 chance there wouldn't have conflict with the church.

 

[Meister61]

@ Zephyrus

Sorry about that. It was just that this person was uttering nonsense while perceiving it as fact and spreading ignorance as truth.

There was little to discuss with someone who thinks he knows all, when in fact he/she/it knows so little.

 

[Kronous]

F#CK!!! i hate that cunning yet naive bastard, Yuuki!

 

[tehwinged]

My thought on the whole crusade plan is that won't literally every other country see through the plan for what it very clearly is, an invasion to protect their trade monopoly? There might be the church to back them up but we've no clue if they have Catholic Church level power over the other nations. I honestly don't see the dwarves taking such a violent expansion lying down.

It's just bad strategy, they shouldve gotten some weaker, smaller country to call for the crusade so they could seem like they were helping rather than instigating

 

[Lucky]

@blitzarc Honestly these translations are better, both in scan quality and writing. Let 'em.

 

[criver]

@ninjadork Take your time, there's no need to explain that you have to do stuff. Since you're referring to a statistical test with a null hypothesis with type 1 and type 2 errors, then you need to clarify: 1) what your hypothesis is, 2) the significance value, 3) you surely realize you can only falsify a statement through that (and with a probability at that). Honestly I don't see how this relates to the problem at hand at all with no reference to statistical data nor the things outlined above, so I'll leave it for you to clarify. Now as for the latter part of your reply:

In this case; destroy the innocent and guilty alike, or spare the innocent and risk the guilty going free?

I never advocated destroying anyone really, I just pointed out that the church as an institution has performed what one would call 'evil' deeds numerous times throughout history. Which you seem to not agree with based on your rather inflammatory reply to @goshinj . Or you disagree with the fact that it was performed by 'true Christians', the point however stands that the church institution is responsible for those, you can't deny accountability and take credit selectively depending on whether it's convenient.

I think history demonstrates that if we want a humane civilization where people consistently live and love and grow, we must err on the side of Type 2 errors.

Can you clarify what you mean here? Is it that humanity requires religion to 'live, love and grow'?

Additionally I presented the following points in my previous comment, that:
1) It is very easy to take advantage of a system based on belief and not reason and to misuse said system for nefarious goals (surely I don't need to remind you of the rather recent pedophilia scandal) just because it does not admit being challenged on the basis of reason (in most cases).
2) It enables confirmation bias and denial of facts.
I'd like you to address both of those points.

 

[gaigous]

@criver I'm with you on this, separation of church and state being circumvented on a regular basis should be evidence of that bias, and I think he meant Due Processes Innocent until proven guilty, either way, it's people that screw it up *Cough* SCOTUS *Cough*