The One Within the Villainess - Ch. 25 - The One Who Passes Through This Gate

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I kinda feel sorry for the prince (and also a bit for most of the rest) though, he (they) didn't hold any interest at all for the b!tch before she used "brainwashing" charm potion and whatever else it was.
It's sort of like blaming someone for a car crash when someone else had cut the brakes on their car, it wasn't something they really could control.

I do understand that she feels betrayed by all of them but she knows those facts and that there's only one person (with the possible exception of some of the lesser witnesses) responsible, yet she insists on taking revenge on people (mainly the prince) who really can't be held responsible for their part in the events, I hate to use the term "victim blaming" but that's precisely what it is, basicly: he got drugged so that he couldn't think clearly, "set up" and lost his love. And that is somehow supposed to be his own fault?

EDIT: Ok... one person two three people so far seems to think that someone who goes to a bar and ends up drugged and raped deserves to be dumped, destroyed and ridiculed
I'll need to read the WN & earlier manga chapters again to be sure but iirc the drug doesn't make you do what you won't want to do in the 1st place. It just makes the spark of intent light up brighter. All of the ogMLs had some jealousy/obsession with Remilia (2 felt inferior, 2 coveted her and wanted her to be theirs) & cause they were twisted people that even before Pina came into view, they had the worst spark of intent on how to one up or make her theirs i.e. ground her to the dirt due to some failure & somehow hope she leans & rely on them instead.

So no... I have a hard time sympathizing with the ogMLs. Same with the King who after the annulment was made did nothing about it despite Remi being a model future Queen all these times. The current Queen I think was spared from Remi's revenge cause she tried to fix the situation despite not having much leeway to help her officially.
 
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I never thought I would see OG Remilia tripped up like she was at the end of the chapter. I don't think she was expecting Angel to propose in front of everyone.

Still...IT'S ABOUT TIME! Let the downfall continue!
 
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Pina's reactions are the cake, and the dumb Prince's reaction are the icing on it. thanks for the food 😊🙏🏼
 
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I'll need to read the WN & earlier manga chapters again to be sure but iirc the drug doesn't make you do what you won't want to do in the 1st place. It just makes the spark of intent light up brighter. All of the ogMLs had some jealousy/obsession with Remilia (2 felt inferior, 2 coveted her and wanted her to be theirs) & cause they were twisted people that even before Pina came into view, they had the worst spark of intent on how to one up or make her theirs i.e. ground her to the dirt due to some failure & somehow hope she leans & rely on them instead.

So no... I have a hard time sympathizing with the ogMLs. Same with the King who after the annulment was made did nothing about it despite Remi being a model future Queen all these times. The current Queen I think was spared from Remi's revenge cause she tried to fix the situation despite not having much leeway to help her officially.
It's kind of easy to figure out, the items were a charm perfume that forced them to "see her in a good light" (find favour in her) just by her being near them, stronger effect over time, in combination with a love potion that further amplified the effect.

Now, one easy question:
Did they or did they not do things after being drugged that they wouldn't have done if they hadn't been drugged?

The prince did a complete 180 so I'd definitly say yes there atleast, the other peoples (love interests) personalities wasn't defined enough for me to really say (or, I can't remember their personalities well enough, maybe), the king couldn't refute the evidence backed up by witnesses, her father was a scumbag assh0le from the start. Some of them might have been "easier" to reprogram than others and some might have been persuaded to do it either way.

Their brains got reprogrammed to not be able to distrust Pina which lead to:
Pina says Remi did this, Remi says she didn't do it, I don't think Remi would do such a thing BUT Pina says that she did and since I'm FORCED to trust Pina therefore Remi must have done it (even though I don't think she would).

In the prince's case (who really loved Remi) this lead to him "feeling betrayed" that his sweet Remi had deceived him and could do such a thing (which he still didn't think she could) but Pina (who he was forced to trust) and witnesses said she did so she must have deceived him because that was the only "logical" outcome his reprogrammed brain could come to, there was no "Pina could be lying" true/false variable that could change the equation, instead it was a constant "Pina could be lying" set to false.
 
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Their brains got reprogrammed to not be able to distrust Pina which lead to:
Pina says Remi did this, Remi says she didn't do it, I don't think Remi would do such a thing BUT Pina says that she did and since I'm FORCED to trust Pina therefore Remi must have done it (even though I don't think she would).

I reread the entire manga today. The items only amplifies affection; nothing more. Affection and trust are not the same thing. They still have free will and that includes making an effort to validate the rumors against Remilia, their supposed friend/fiance, regardless of their affection for Pina. The manga alone explicitly implies (mainly from the King's PoV alongside other bits scattered throughout) that William used this chance to knock Remilia down a peg to satiate his inferiority complex and still keep Remilia at the same time. I could see how the manga might be implying that Claud had tried to take advantage of William's plan to take Remilia for himself, like others have said, but it was admittedly not too clear to me. Maybe the novels do a better job. I think it's pretty clear that Remilia's original friends betrayed Remilia.
 
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I reread the entire manga today. The items only amplifies affection; nothing more. Affection and trust are not the same thing. They still have free will and that includes making an effort to validate the rumors against Remilia, their supposed friend/fiance, regardless of their affection for Pina. The manga alone explicitly implies (mainly from the King's PoV alongside other bits scattered throughout) that William used this chance to knock Remilia down a peg to satiate his inferiority complex and still keep Remilia at the same time. I could see how the manga might be implying that Claud had tried to take advantage of William's plan to take Remilia for himself, like others have said, but it was admittedly not too clear to me. Maybe the novels do a better job. I think it's pretty clear that Remilia's original friends betrayed Remilia.
The ogMLs trying to take Remi for themselves which lead to them to join in Prince's stupid plan got explained in the extra chapters for the WN, where the writer dedicated a few chapters each for each ogML to reflect why they betrayed Remi. The way the manga has done so far though, my guess is they'll add that as they go with the story instead of extra chapters.
 
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I reread the entire manga today. The items only amplifies affection; nothing more. Affection and trust are not the same thing. They still have free will and that includes making an effort to validate the rumors against Remilia, their supposed friend/fiance, regardless of their affection for Pina. The manga alone explicitly implies (mainly from the King's PoV alongside other bits scattered throughout) that William used this chance to knock Remilia down a peg to satiate his inferiority complex and still keep Remilia at the same time. I could see how the manga might be implying that Claud had tried to take advantage of William's plan to take Remilia for himself, like others have said, but it was admittedly not too clear to me. Maybe the novels do a better job. I think it's pretty clear that Remilia's original friends betrayed Remilia.
According to the fan translated manga (which is the only source I have had any contact with, which means that I can only base my opinion on) the love potion alone only affects affection and allows them to think and rationalize "freely" BUT the charm perfume affects (forcefully) favourability (which is a different thing than affection, it's more the likelyhood that you'd "trust" the person and take their side), this effect get's stronger the more time they are exposed, add to that the love potion that AMPLIFIES that effect (it's unclear if the combination also increases the love potion effect) and you effectively have a reprogramming of the brain so that even IF you (theoretically) can think "freely", it wouldn't matter since the line of thought wouldn't be what it would have been without the "drugs" (which they didn't chose to take)... I have a hard time understanding how that can be so hard to grasp?
The prince is even shown to follow this reasoning, he doesn't think that Remi would have done such a thing but Pina (and other "trustworthy" witnesses) says she did so therefore she must have, due to the drugs, his brain doesn't allow for any other outcome. If the prince had taken the drugs willingly then he'd deserve any punishment he'd get but he was drugged against his will.

Alcohol impairs peoples judgement, would you condemn someone for what they do if they'd been force fed alcohol to the point of being a$$faced? They didn't chose to get that drunk.

Now, the WN and LN might portray things differently and add more information but that is not conveyed in the (fan translated) manga and the direct shown facts and inferenses in the manga says that (atleast) the prince isn't acting like he would have without being drugged.
 
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I was expecting Remi's knight to start broadcasting Pina's anal sex this chapter, but it seems as though it might not even be revealed. This confrontation is different from the Web Novel.
 
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Note that the "didn't lose heart when she was without a single ally" and "gave it all for the world based on her beliefs" parts are characteristics of the "real Remilia", not merely the "Emi's Remilia" that she portrays. The first is undeniably accurate, and the second's context is a little skewed, but ultimately it was her beliefs (particularly her belief in "Emi's Remilia") that caused her to go to such extents.
So in essence, the parts he loves most about her are actually her, not just the role she plays for Emi's sake. I'm less certain about the "kind-hearted" bit. I think she's pretty decent (even if some of it was faked), but it's honestly really hard to tell. Remilia's excellent acting is portrayed very well.
 
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I was expecting Remi's knight to start broadcasting Pina's anal sex this chapter, but it seems as though it might not even be revealed. This confrontation is different from the Web Novel.
Wait, what? Mind explaining that to me? Because that sounds hilariously debauched.
Who was it with? When did it happen?
 
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Wait, what? Mind explaining that to me? Because that sounds hilariously debauched.
Who was it with? When did it happen?
It was a guy named Romano, one of the servants in the Graupner dukedom (Remilia's family) Remilia's bodyguard. It's one of many instances where Pina whored herself out to get people on her side. This Romano spread a rumor that Remilia made a pass at him and when he refused, she brought up and threatened his family to force him into serving her.

The same servants she bribed and bumped uglies with were the ones feeding her info on Remilia as well as sneaking out some of her possessions. It's how she managed to get Remilia's handkerchief for that fake altercation in the courtyard.

The reason Pina was so insistent on anal sex was to preserve her virginity for Will.
 
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Phew, almost done, hope the original star maiden is freed soon (I forgot her name). Thanks for the chapter!
You know what...I've never thought of that before. While this crazy ahh woman is doing all things un-star maidenly, the real one may also still be trapped in the mind space, forced to watch all that the current star maiden is bullshitting
 
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the charm perfume affects (forcefully) favourability

I think we differ in our interpretation here. I see "to forcefully find favor in" as a boost in favourability (to clarify, not necessarily the favourability score like the love potion influences which means affection). You seem to see it as the more extreme case where given two choices between Pina vs X, always side with Pina. The love potion also forcefully manipulates something. The charm perfume's effect gradually increases according to time spent together.

The rest of the work only focuses on addressing affection but not anything else. Not quite sure why.

The prince is even shown to follow this reasoning, he doesn't think that Remi would have done such a thing but Pina (and other "trustworthy" witnesses) says she did so therefore she must have, due to the drugs, his brain doesn't allow for any other outcome. If the prince had taken the drugs willingly then he'd deserve any punishment he'd get but he was drugged against his will.

Not really. William's "reasoning" are just words. You can even see the smug look on his face looking down on Remilia as he says them. He's taking pleasure in seeing Remilia being weak. That's a bit more than just simply siding with Pina.
 
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According to the fan translated manga (which is the only source I have had any contact with, which means that I can only base my opinion on) the love potion alone only affects affection and allows them to think and rationalize "freely" BUT the charm perfume affects (forcefully) favourability (which is a different thing than affection, it's more the likelyhood that you'd "trust" the person and take their side), this effect get's stronger the more time they are exposed, add to that the love potion that AMPLIFIES that effect (it's unclear if the combination also increases the love potion effect) and you effectively have a reprogramming of the brain so that even IF you (theoretically) can think "freely", it wouldn't matter since the line of thought wouldn't be what it would have been without the "drugs" (which they didn't chose to take)... I have a hard time understanding how that can be so hard to grasp?
The prince is even shown to follow this reasoning, he doesn't think that Remi would have done such a thing but Pina (and other "trustworthy" witnesses) says she did so therefore she must have, due to the drugs, his brain doesn't allow for any other outcome. If the prince had taken the drugs willingly then he'd deserve any punishment he'd get but he was drugged against his will.

Alcohol impairs peoples judgement, would you condemn someone for what they do if they'd been force fed alcohol to the point of being a$$faced? They didn't chose to get that drunk.

Now, the WN and LN might portray things differently and add more information but that is not conveyed in the (fan translated) manga and the direct shown facts and inferenses in the manga says that (atleast) the prince isn't acting like he would have without being drugged.
Even in the manga it was only stated that the ability and love potion only BOOST affection. If you dont hold any good feelings towards her its useless. If it would be that crazy as you said then she would have the whole country under control and even the queen etc. Which is obviously not the case. People who dont like her at all wont suddenly start liking her.

Also your comparison with alcohol doesnt hold up that well, because it isnt just once.
He is basically all the time over a long time and even when Emi warns him and speaks with him he doesnt change. Will and the others are caught in their own delusions and "not so good" character traits. Pina only gave them a chance/opening to act on them. These 3 Idiots would have acted on it if given the chance anyway, even without Pina.
The Prince is also clinging to Pina narrative at this point because he cant admit that he is to blame. Totally standard escapism and not influenced by some sort of "drugged state of mind". In truth is he knows that Emi wouldnt do such things and the reason he did what he did wasnt because of Pina, but because he wanted to put her a bit down, so that she has flaws and is on the same field. Ergo he isnt inferior to her anymore. THAT was all of his true reason and was IN the manga.
 
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You know what...I've never thought of that before. While this crazy ahh woman is doing all things un-star maidenly, the real one may also still be trapped in the mind space, forced to watch all that the current star maiden is bullshitting
There is a spoiler comment earlier in the thread that explains that, but we should see it soon, as the series is heading toward the end.
 
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Even in the manga it was only stated that the ability and love potion only BOOST affection. If you dont hold any good feelings towards her its useless. If it would be that crazy as you said then she would have the whole country under control and even the queen etc. Which is obviously not the case. People who dont like her at all wont suddenly start liking her.

Also your comparison with alcohol doesnt hold up that well, because it isnt just once.
He is basically all the time over a long time and even when Emi warns him and speaks with him he doesnt change. Will and the others are caught in their own delusions and "not so good" character traits. Pina only gave them a chance/opening to act on them. These 3 Idiots would have acted on it if given the chance anyway, even without Pina.
The Prince is also clinging to Pina narrative at this point because he cant admit that he is to blame. Totally standard escapism and not influenced by some sort of "drugged state of mind". In truth is he knows that Emi wouldnt do such things and the reason he did what he did wasnt because of Pina, but because he wanted to put her a bit down, so that she has flaws and is on the same field. Ergo he isnt inferior to her anymore. THAT was all of his true reason and was IN the manga.
In the manga (chap 3, page 21-22) it's stated that the perfume forces favourability (which, as I've stated, is a different thing than affection, while affection can be a part of it, it doesn't have to be), the perfume requires proximity to start affecting and the effect increases the longer/more they "victim" is exposed, the magnitude of effect is increased by the love potion which requires ingestion, so no, it would not affect the whole country unless she bathed in the perfume and kept spending all her time close to EVERYONE while feeding them love potion, which is something she did with Will and the other guys.

The alcohol comparison works fine if you consider that he's being kept consistently drugged (ie, effectively kept permanently drunk when it comes to impaired judgement).

Pina started using the charm perfume already in chapter 2, before that none of them had even the slightest interest in her, in fact it's shown that they all found her annoying and bothersome, she slowly started affecting them with the charm perfume, exactly how much time that passed before Remi suspected something was off and tried saying something as a warning is unclear but from inferences it seems to be quite a while, giving Pina plenty of time to have the perfume affect them and possibly even slip them the love potion before Remi even made that warning, by that time Pina's favourability would have been so high that it would just have come off as simple jelousy.
Pina spread rumours, fabricated evidence, got witness testimonies and in the end even fabricated getting pushed down the stairs by Remi which Will himself (almost) witnessed, all while keeping in close proximity to Will and the others to further "drug" them, increasing her favourability.

The prince's "inferiority complex" is addressed and taken care of already in chapter 1 and isn't showing any hint of still being present before he is drugged in chapter 2 so any "re-occurance" later on is most definitly due to the drugs.

Try re-reading chapter 2, notice their initial personalities and take notice of when their personalities start to change (when they start to care about Pina), when you read the rest after that keep in mind that their judgement is impaired with an increased favourability towards Pina due to being drugged, not by choice, colouring all of their reasoning/reactions.
 
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In the manga (chap 3, page 21-22) it's stated that the perfume forces favourability (which, as I've stated, is a different thing than affection, while affection can be a part of it, it doesn't have to be), the perfume requires proximity to start affecting and the effect increases the longer/more they "victim" is exposed, the magnitude of effect is increased by the love potion which requires ingestion, so no, it would not affect the whole country unless she bathed in the perfume and kept spending all her time close to EVERYONE while feeding them love potion, which is something she did with Will and the other guys.
then why the aren't mindless simps?

remilia explains indeed it forces out of nowhere the affection, but what you didnt see is litteraly the same paragraph: "whilist those items did have the ability to create affection out of thin air, they didnt have the ability to brainwash or make the targets lose their minds"
and in the following "which means those scum happily went along with emi's pain"

Try re-reading chapter 2, notice their initial personalities and take notice of when their personalities start to change (when they start to care about Pina), when you read the rest after that keep in mind that their judgement is impaired with an increased favourability towards Pina due to being drugged, not by choice, colouring all of their reasoning/reactions.
what you are reading are only Emi and Remilia's pov, which means parts of story is missing which are the 4 idiot's side's story, have you ever thought that they have their own agenda to act like their personality changed?
id suggest to read the extra story related to those 4
 
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So you are one of those people that think that the "charm" spells/potions/abilities in these types settings is nothing more than a slight influence in how they view a person?
He did a frikkin 180+ in how he viewed the b!tch, that's some levels of magnitude beyond "believing someone because they make you feel good", it's straight up brainwashing, he was unable to not trust the b!tch even though he just a short while before didn't trust her at all and unable to trust the girl he was madly in love with just before this, if you call that having their mental faculties intact then you're insane.

EDIT: Also, are you saying that he even had a choice in getting "drugged"? Because that's what your heroin addict scenario is implying. If so, it's the same as saying that someone getting drugged at a bar/party chose to be drugged.

While I agree with you about the "brainwashing" part - since feeling can affect a person's cause of action greatly, I don't agree with the "drugged" part. Because to success to this extend, Pina had to constantly feeding them the potion, and Emi tried to constantly warn them about not eating Pina's cookies, etc. And they felt that Emi was just doing it out of jealousy, felt good about it, so they continue to do it to trigger Emi and felt good about themselves. There are people who just keep a distance from Pina and they were fine - we have Sofia for example, and many unamed nobles. And if you can remember Will's smile when Remi's brother told him that it's the correct decision to banish Remi - all of them are happy because that event is useful for their own plan of monopolizing Emi, without thinking one bit about how doing that would destroy Emi mentally.

Your interpretion on this part might be different, but that's officially what the novel explained why Remillia won't forgive Will and the others. You can accept it and let it go to enjoy this story - which will be the easiest, or not. Which is fine either ways, what I'm trying to say is different people will always have different perspective on different things and that's totally fine, just that in this case it's a fictional story and there is an offiical explanation, so it's totally normal and it's not wrong to accept that canon explanation.

Read the novel, it'll explain this part more.
 

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