The Princess of Sylph - Vol. 3 Ch. 11 - Snapdragon (3)

[1idd0kun]

Yeah, by a civilian who wouldn't know the difference between a wolf ard a monster. No one who would know the difference calls it a monster.

Spare me the mental gymnastics. It's a monster. Period.

 

[deathpigeon]

Spare me the mental gymnastics. It's a monster. Period.

A character called it a monster. They were clearly incorrect given the information we got this chapter. It is normal for characters in fiction to say things which are factually incorrect.

 

[1idd0kun]

A character called it a monster. They were clearly incorrect given the information we got this chapter. It is normal for characters in fiction to say things which are factually incorrect.

No, it's the other way around. The bro was wrong. That's the point.

 

[deathpigeon]

No, it's the other way around. The bro was wrong. That's the point.

So, in your telling, a random dude with no expertise calling something that looked like a wolf a monster is more likely to be correct than the guy who's job was keeping out monsters?

 

[1idd0kun]

So, in your telling, a random dude with no expertise calling something that looked like a wolf a monster is more likely to be correct than the guy who's job was keeping out monsters?

Her bro has been dead for a while and never fought any monster anyway, as he said. He's convinced things are gonna keep going that way, but he's wrong. Not only a monster wolf already attacked, but the princess of the water kingdom also warned Natalia of the danger of not having the sword. This is clear foreshadowing. Anyone with a basic knowledge of storytelling should be able to tell where this is going. If anything, the bro saying that nothing is gonna happen is a clear red flag.

 

[deathpigeon]

It was a random throw away line from a character who's face we didn't even see who had no name. No one else calls it a monster. That's not foreshadowing. That's a character not knowing what they're talking about.

 

[1idd0kun]

It was a random throw away line from a character who's face we didn't even see who had no name. No one else calls it a monster. That's not foreshadowing. That's a character not knowing what they're talking about.

They knew it's a "dire wolf" and a monster. They know what it is. And the foreshadowing is the water princess warning Natalia that her kingdom is gonna be in great danger without the sword.

Anyway, you're free to think what you will. But something big and ugly is gonna happen. I've no doubt. The clues are all there.

 

[deathpigeon]

They know what it is.

Why would they?

 

[1idd0kun]

Why would they?

Why wouldn't they? The only reason the monsters usually don't attack is because of the barrier, but there's no reason the people don't know about them. More importantly, they literally called it a "dire wolf", so they know what it is.

Besides, there's also the warning of the water princess.

But like I said, you don't have to agree with me. You'll see soon enough anyway.

 

[deathpigeon]

Why wouldn't they?

There was no reason they would know.

If a random guy in the middle of a city yelled that a wild animal was a grizzly bear, but a zoologists told you that grizzly bears don't live in the area and it basically looked like a brown bear, would you then turn around and go, "wow, that zoologist was clearly wrong" or would you take the random dude with a grain of salt?

 

[1idd0kun]

There was no reason they would know.

If a random guy in the middle of a city yelled that a wild animal was a grizzly bear, but a zoologists told you that grizzly bears don't live in the area and it basically looked like a brown bear, would you then turn around and go, "wow, that zoologist was clearly wrong" or would you take the random dude with a grain of salt?

I'm pretty sure any random person could tell the difference between a normal wolf and a monster even if we never saw a monster before because we do know normal wolves so we can tell the difference. For the people of this kingdom it must be even easier to tell because they must have seen actual monsters before.

Besides, you don't have any counter-argument for the warning of the water princess. If the incident of the monster wolf was an isolated case, you might have a point. But it's not an isolated incident. It's contextualized by the warning of the water princess. Shit is gonna hit the fan. It's not a matter of "if" but of "when."

 

[deathpigeon]

For the people of this kingdom it must be even easier to tell because they must have seen actual monsters before.

No they haven't! No monsters have gotten through the barrier is thousands of years. They wouldn't know the difference between a monster and an animal.

They've been told all their life that the sword protects them because monsters are always about to attack them, so, of course, an animal attacks and they go, "Oh no! A monster!"

That doesn't mean it's a monster. That just means they believe it's a monster.

 

[salthejackman]

her unwillingness to listen or work with change.

When was that? Ain't that more like her highness flaw?

The rest though, I can't see it as flaws with the way it's executed, more like more interesting and adorable sides since it did no harm at all

Her highness flaw though, keeps making her collapse, which caused her almost fail to protect her people. She then recognized it and tried to not make the same mistake again.
We still didn't see any of this from Sara, the way Sara got fired from doing a too good job isn't a flaw, the way Sara abandoned her nun mission because she worried about the fragile princess isn't a flaw, the way Sara fell to the ground because the rope wasn't thick enough isn't a flaw, how Sara became the sword host wasn't because of her flaw, it was resulted from her good heroic traits, the way she eagered to kill herself for a punishment isn't a flaw either.

Simple put, none of her actions so far objectively feels annoying like a human flaw.

 

[1idd0kun]

No they haven't! No monsters have gotten through the barrier is thousands of years. They wouldn't know the difference between a monster and an animal.

They've been told all their life that the sword protects them because monsters are always about to attack them, so, of course, an animal attacks and they go, "Oh no! A monster!"

That doesn't mean it's a monster. That just means they believe it's a monster.

Like I said, even if we never saw a monster, we would be able to tell the difference because we know normal wolves.

Besides, there's the elephant in the room that you keep avoiding, the warning of the water princess. The author wouldn't have added that warning for nothing. Just like the water princess said, eventually shit is gonna hit the fan and Natalia will have to make choice between Sara's life or the kingdom. That's where the story is going whether you like it or not.

 

[deathpigeon]

When was that? Ain't that more like her highness flaw?

She was told repeatedly that her presence would help the princess and that she should embrace what she was given and she repeatedly rejected this to the point ef attempted suicide.

Hur flaws are way more human and normal than the princess's.

Besides, there's the elephant in the room that you keep avoiding, the warning of the water princess

Because it's irrelevant to the discussion. Some impending doom doesn't mean that monsters have already breached the barrier nor does that mean the wolf in chapter 2 was a monster.

 

[1idd0kun]

Because it's irrelevant to the discussion. Some impending doom doesn't mean that monsters have already breached the barrier nor does that mean the wolf in chapter 2 was a monster.

It's totally relevant. It's build up. First the monster, then the warning, then the bro saying nothing has happened in a long time (obvious red flag). It's fucking build up, it's all leading to the obvious.

Anyway, I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore. You want to believe the monster is not a monster, be my guest. You're free to think what you will. But for me, the monster is a monster. That's what I think because it's what they said and I've no reason to doubt it, and nothing you said made me change my mind. If anything, you argument seemed nonsensical to me. But that's just me.

 

[shittycoolusername69]

Sara has plenty of flaws, but I guess you could argue those flaws have never resulted in anything bad for her. Yes, she almost killed herself, but was rescued. She's reckless, but never really suffers consequences because the princess is there to fix it. So on and so forth. I get from where the complaint is coming from. Having said that, though, I feel it's still too early to have our characters losing/crippled because of their flaws.

I think the fact that Sara ended up with the sword implanted in her body, and ended up becoming chained to the royal family, is a pretty serious consequence in itself, even if she survived and is happy to fulfill the role (because she is crazy devoted and drawn to Natalia).

The physical pain she endured in the forest up can also be considered a consequence. Her injuries were healed, but pain still sucks. The things the snake princess did to Sara also seemed pretty unpleasant.

So you are right in that permanent loss of life or limb hasn't happened yet, but those are the darkest types of consequence a character can suffer for a flaw or mistake. And yeah, that stuff can still happen later, though since this setting isn't all that dark and there is no war going on, I don't find it likely that Sara will be responsible for the deaths of innocent people.

 

[salthejackman]

She was told repeatedly that her presence would help the princess and that she should embrace what she was given and she repeatedly rejected this to the point ef attempted suicide.

Hur flaws are way more human and normal than the princess's.

Oh that's not... lol that isn't a flaw, do you really hate it when someone respect your decision instead of your silbing decision? Do you really hate it when someone decided their own punishment, which is frwaking death? No! Those only left good impression.

And no, trying to do a good thing do feel human, but punishing yourself with death from trying to save someone life isn't a human flaw or feels human, more like god trait.

 

[salthejackman]

because she is crazy devoted and .

That's the point, having consequence from a good devotion isn't a flaw, more like god punishes good people for no reason.

The physical pain she endured in the forest up can also be considered a consequence. Her injuries were healed, but pain still sucks. The things the snake princess did to Sara also seemed pretty unpleasant.

This too, it was pain from hardwork, and bad people doing bad things, it was not Sara receiving consequence from her mistake.

 

[deathpigeon]

Do you really hate it when someone decided their own punishment, which is frwaking death?

Yes, it is flaw to attempt suicide. It doesn't make her a bad person, per se, but it's a very human flaw.

punishing yourself with death from trying to save someone life isn't a human flaw or feels human

Plenty of people commit suicide for stupid reasons. Plenty of people blame themselves for things they didn't do wrong.

This is very human.