The Queen - Vol. 1 Ch. 35 - Consort Huan's Defeat
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I know I don't have the most popular opinion but right now, I really pity Consort Huan. Just like everyone else, she is just trying to survive. She also has the weight of an entire country on her back. She was doing so well, only to be absolutely destroyed by a former slave that HEAVILY relied on the king. AND not only did she lose an important position of power, but she also brought down her ENTIRE family. All because she forgot to account for the king's interference.
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@Luna_Uzumaki777 I understand what you mean, and the fight in the palace/harem is definitely not the best place to put virtue and good deeds on top as everyone is trying to survive and thrive in their own way, using whatever means. But I would say it's karma in the work for Huan as well. She was desperately trying to gain power and was tormenting and killing a lot of other people in the process, now she is simply losing the race that she participated in.
And regarding Ling Zhi relying heavily on the Emperor.... Well what do you expect a former slave being able to do anything actually substantial in the palace where the Empress dowager is in charge anyways lol? Even the King currently has less power than the Empress dowager, and Ling Zhi with the King's backup/influence being to achieve these things should be considered a feat in itself.
And regarding Ling Zhi relying heavily on the Emperor.... Well what do you expect a former slave being able to do anything actually substantial in the palace where the Empress dowager is in charge anyways lol? Even the King currently has less power than the Empress dowager, and Ling Zhi with the King's backup/influence being to achieve these things should be considered a feat in itself.
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Aluoye Saya is a woman who has been fighting against the equivalent of a Nazi regime. And as other people who have fought against some regimes, she has had to make choices that can simply not be judged from our perspective. If one had Nazi regiments being sent into their country continuously, if one saw village after village be annihilated, and if one caught what seemed a Nazi informer, what would one do to them? How does Saya see Qingyan, how does she see Ling Zhi? We look from their perspective, we judge murders … However, if Saya had been the main character, we would have looked from her perspective and would have considered Qingyan to be hiding information that could save thousands of lives and Ling Zhi to be an accessory.
Mu Xuanjue appears as a wishy-washy Nazi general who could be coerced into betraying Hitler. What would one do to such a man when the lives of thousands of people depended on it?
Saya was a soldier. And as a soldier she did what she had to. How many soldiers, during WWII, had to bear the capitulation of their country after they had fought, killed, murdered for their people?
This is not karma, it is not destiny. It is called genocide and ethnic cleansing. What is more worth to a soldier? One Ling Zhi, one Qingyan, a handful of concubines, an Emperor, an Empress Dowager, a soldier's own life, a soldier's dignity … Or thousands of lives. Thousands of little Qingyans, thousands of Ling Zhis?
TUTU wrote it twice. There is no absolute of evil and good in the world these characters live in. In The Queen, there is only pain, survival and wrenching liberty out of an enemy's hand.
This being said, isn't Mu Xuanjue's expression interesting. Everyone is shocked when Saya gets slapped by the Mirage emissaries. Even the Empress Dowager who was at war with Mirage didn't know the aristocracy had stripped the Aluoye of rank and land and was ready to capitulate. How come Mu Xuanjue isn't the least bit surprised? As if he had known it would happen. As if he had chosen that Golden Sun symbol himself, as if he had known Saya did not fear the Empress Dowager and would lash out at her. In front of all the envoys of all the nations the Empress Dowager had brought to heel!
What is that man doing? Building a legend that is going to be carried out throughout the Empress Dowager's empire? About one Aluoye Saya who wore the symbol of her people, who stood against the Empress Dowager, who was humiliated by the lowly, the cowardly Mirage aristocracy that had sold its people out to a genocidal government. I wonder the effect that would have on the foreign peoples.
Mu Xuanjue appears as a wishy-washy Nazi general who could be coerced into betraying Hitler. What would one do to such a man when the lives of thousands of people depended on it?
Saya was a soldier. And as a soldier she did what she had to. How many soldiers, during WWII, had to bear the capitulation of their country after they had fought, killed, murdered for their people?
This is not karma, it is not destiny. It is called genocide and ethnic cleansing. What is more worth to a soldier? One Ling Zhi, one Qingyan, a handful of concubines, an Emperor, an Empress Dowager, a soldier's own life, a soldier's dignity … Or thousands of lives. Thousands of little Qingyans, thousands of Ling Zhis?
TUTU wrote it twice. There is no absolute of evil and good in the world these characters live in. In The Queen, there is only pain, survival and wrenching liberty out of an enemy's hand.
This being said, isn't Mu Xuanjue's expression interesting. Everyone is shocked when Saya gets slapped by the Mirage emissaries. Even the Empress Dowager who was at war with Mirage didn't know the aristocracy had stripped the Aluoye of rank and land and was ready to capitulate. How come Mu Xuanjue isn't the least bit surprised? As if he had known it would happen. As if he had chosen that Golden Sun symbol himself, as if he had known Saya did not fear the Empress Dowager and would lash out at her. In front of all the envoys of all the nations the Empress Dowager had brought to heel!
What is that man doing? Building a legend that is going to be carried out throughout the Empress Dowager's empire? About one Aluoye Saya who wore the symbol of her people, who stood against the Empress Dowager, who was humiliated by the lowly, the cowardly Mirage aristocracy that had sold its people out to a genocidal government. I wonder the effect that would have on the foreign peoples.
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A lot of what she did was because she had to at the start, I'm sure. But she quickly became cruel and arrogant in her position at the top of the harem. Plenty of things we've seen her do had nothing to do with her survival, or even helping her people. Almost all of her actions against Ling for instance were stemming from a personal grudge due to the Emperor actually favoring her when he's never even considered looking at Huan that way. Even the other women from the Mirage people that were surrounding her were starting to question her obsession with striking at Ling no matter the risk.
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@glomoro
Everything you said would indeed be plausible. However, TUTU is a master of illusion, of symbolism and of mind games. As much as there is to support your claims, there is just as much to support those that Saya has been under tremendous stress because of the escalating situation in Mirage and of the happenings at court.
We must not forget that in Chapter 7, Consort Huan has received direct orders from Mirage to dispose of Ling Zhi. In Chapter 11, she offers Ling Zhi the possibility to bow out once. Ling Zhi refuses. She employs a first manner to get rid of Ling Zhi. However, no one asks why Consort Huan would need to get rid of Ling Zhi to begin with. The Emperor is a man who has been chased out of the palace by the Empress Dowager, he has been stripped of administrative, legislative, executive power and has taken refuge in the harem.
To foster an alliance, Consort Huan must make the harem unlivable for him and force him to choose one side. Either the Empress Dowager, who so to say, only needs him to maintain the Pact of Non-Aggression between Mirage and the Human Empire until she can with confidence attack the greatest army among the foreign peoples (it would be interesting to ask, why this greatest of armies has not taken part in the Great War of Conquests, something the Fire People hold against them and how aristocrats can send a Supreme Commander to exile when he could have started a military putsch any time). On the other side, there is the Mirage State. Now, if the Emperor allied with the Mirage State, he would be forced to express himself against the war. This could undermine the Empress Dowager's military influence by causing civil unrest. If we remember well in Chapter 18, it is known that the Empress Dowager coerces civilians into the army (we can see the villagers from Qingyan's hamlet walking away enchained). If the Emperor were to voice his support against the war, it would give those people reason to rebel, create instability that the Mirage State could exploit to attack and crush the Human Army.
However, the Emperor being the Emperor, he has taken Saya's measure as soon as she has stepped foot into the harem and has started throwing concubines at her to make her believe he was comfortable enough in the situation he found himself in and would in no way seek to anger the Empress Dowager. This way, he kept Saya occupied and nervous.
Then we have Chapter 23 that increases Saya's fear by a notch. She sees what happened to the Snow People who were obliterated, she sees what happened to Bingjian (Snow King) and she explicitly tells herself that this could happen to the Mirage People. And that she needs to force the Emperor into an alliance. As well, whenever she thinks of Ling Zhi, she puts her in relation with the Emperor. The Emperor has taught her to evade Consort Huan. The Emperor has given her the rank of Consort to act as a buffer against Consort Huan. The Emperor needs to be forced into an alliance. Rather than Ling Zhi, Consort Huan is obsessed with the Emperor.
In Chapters 31 and 32, she is seen staring at the Mirage Golden Sun for what seem to be ongoing moments. She is indeed obsessed and neurotic, but Ling Zhi is only a symbol for her, not a true person. It is an obstacle that needs to be removed for Mirage. Consort Huan is also uninterested in the administrative powers that she held as main consort, she voices her contempt of them in Chapter 32. Hence, it is difficult to say whether she ever desired power for the pleasure of having power or whether it was a means to make the Emperor's life as miserable as possible.
Now about Shana and the other Mirage women, they were not in the same position as Consort Huan. In fact, seeing how Shana was the main instigator of unrest in both Chapters 6 and 10 makes one wonder whether she is not the one enjoying the power the Mirage women hold in the harem, power they get mainly through Consort Huan. Consort Huan on the contrary, in both Chapters 10 and 26, shows guilt towards other foreign peoples since Mirage did not fight alongside them during the Great War of Conquests. Shana desires to preserve her life (and who wouldn't). She reminds Consort Huan that they are nothing but a tool given in mariage in Chapter 26 and that there should stop their allegiance to Mirage. Shana is a woman scared for her life and that of her family (which is normal). But she is not (as she, herself admits later on), in the same position as Consort Huan who has other pressures forcing her to act. She does not question so much Consort Huan's desire to destroy Ling Zhi as she questions the consequences failure would have on their lives. But Consort Huan's life might be considered as the possession of Mirage, not her own.
If Ling Zhi, the Emperor's favorite had appeared with the Golden Sun on her dress in this chapter, this would have created an immediate cleave between the Empress Dowager, who tolerates the Emperor for political reasons, and the Emperor and would have forced him to look for shelter elsewhere. Finally. But the Emperor is the Emperor. He manipulates the Empress Dowager, let alone a simple, rash and narrow-sighted spirit as Consort Huan.
What is amazing with TUTU is the fact that she never tells you what you are supposed to think but lets you draw your own conclusions. This is the position I have chosen to defend. But truth being said, your position is just as plausible. I mean, we spend hours on the Discord trying to make sense of what TUTU is trying to tell us. It is all very exciting. Where I am concerned, Chapters 37 and 38 sell the deal where Consort Huan, or rather at that point, Saya's motivations are concerned. And especially the end of 38. But as said, choose a side, stick to it, you will find enough arguments to defend it either way. It's TUTU, she never gives you anything on a silver platter.
Everything you said would indeed be plausible. However, TUTU is a master of illusion, of symbolism and of mind games. As much as there is to support your claims, there is just as much to support those that Saya has been under tremendous stress because of the escalating situation in Mirage and of the happenings at court.
We must not forget that in Chapter 7, Consort Huan has received direct orders from Mirage to dispose of Ling Zhi. In Chapter 11, she offers Ling Zhi the possibility to bow out once. Ling Zhi refuses. She employs a first manner to get rid of Ling Zhi. However, no one asks why Consort Huan would need to get rid of Ling Zhi to begin with. The Emperor is a man who has been chased out of the palace by the Empress Dowager, he has been stripped of administrative, legislative, executive power and has taken refuge in the harem.
To foster an alliance, Consort Huan must make the harem unlivable for him and force him to choose one side. Either the Empress Dowager, who so to say, only needs him to maintain the Pact of Non-Aggression between Mirage and the Human Empire until she can with confidence attack the greatest army among the foreign peoples (it would be interesting to ask, why this greatest of armies has not taken part in the Great War of Conquests, something the Fire People hold against them and how aristocrats can send a Supreme Commander to exile when he could have started a military putsch any time). On the other side, there is the Mirage State. Now, if the Emperor allied with the Mirage State, he would be forced to express himself against the war. This could undermine the Empress Dowager's military influence by causing civil unrest. If we remember well in Chapter 18, it is known that the Empress Dowager coerces civilians into the army (we can see the villagers from Qingyan's hamlet walking away enchained). If the Emperor were to voice his support against the war, it would give those people reason to rebel, create instability that the Mirage State could exploit to attack and crush the Human Army.
However, the Emperor being the Emperor, he has taken Saya's measure as soon as she has stepped foot into the harem and has started throwing concubines at her to make her believe he was comfortable enough in the situation he found himself in and would in no way seek to anger the Empress Dowager. This way, he kept Saya occupied and nervous.
Then we have Chapter 23 that increases Saya's fear by a notch. She sees what happened to the Snow People who were obliterated, she sees what happened to Bingjian (Snow King) and she explicitly tells herself that this could happen to the Mirage People. And that she needs to force the Emperor into an alliance. As well, whenever she thinks of Ling Zhi, she puts her in relation with the Emperor. The Emperor has taught her to evade Consort Huan. The Emperor has given her the rank of Consort to act as a buffer against Consort Huan. The Emperor needs to be forced into an alliance. Rather than Ling Zhi, Consort Huan is obsessed with the Emperor.
In Chapters 31 and 32, she is seen staring at the Mirage Golden Sun for what seem to be ongoing moments. She is indeed obsessed and neurotic, but Ling Zhi is only a symbol for her, not a true person. It is an obstacle that needs to be removed for Mirage. Consort Huan is also uninterested in the administrative powers that she held as main consort, she voices her contempt of them in Chapter 32. Hence, it is difficult to say whether she ever desired power for the pleasure of having power or whether it was a means to make the Emperor's life as miserable as possible.
Now about Shana and the other Mirage women, they were not in the same position as Consort Huan. In fact, seeing how Shana was the main instigator of unrest in both Chapters 6 and 10 makes one wonder whether she is not the one enjoying the power the Mirage women hold in the harem, power they get mainly through Consort Huan. Consort Huan on the contrary, in both Chapters 10 and 26, shows guilt towards other foreign peoples since Mirage did not fight alongside them during the Great War of Conquests. Shana desires to preserve her life (and who wouldn't). She reminds Consort Huan that they are nothing but a tool given in mariage in Chapter 26 and that there should stop their allegiance to Mirage. Shana is a woman scared for her life and that of her family (which is normal). But she is not (as she, herself admits later on), in the same position as Consort Huan who has other pressures forcing her to act. She does not question so much Consort Huan's desire to destroy Ling Zhi as she questions the consequences failure would have on their lives. But Consort Huan's life might be considered as the possession of Mirage, not her own.
If Ling Zhi, the Emperor's favorite had appeared with the Golden Sun on her dress in this chapter, this would have created an immediate cleave between the Empress Dowager, who tolerates the Emperor for political reasons, and the Emperor and would have forced him to look for shelter elsewhere. Finally. But the Emperor is the Emperor. He manipulates the Empress Dowager, let alone a simple, rash and narrow-sighted spirit as Consort Huan.
What is amazing with TUTU is the fact that she never tells you what you are supposed to think but lets you draw your own conclusions. This is the position I have chosen to defend. But truth being said, your position is just as plausible. I mean, we spend hours on the Discord trying to make sense of what TUTU is trying to tell us. It is all very exciting. Where I am concerned, Chapters 37 and 38 sell the deal where Consort Huan, or rather at that point, Saya's motivations are concerned. And especially the end of 38. But as said, choose a side, stick to it, you will find enough arguments to defend it either way. It's TUTU, she never gives you anything on a silver platter.
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@glomoro
I am really sorry!!! I didn't mean it like that at all. I just find these types of conversations interesting. Bad habit of analyzing everything in The Queen. It is mostly the reason I am so attached to this project (quite obsessed, in fact).
And I just lately discovered the mangadex community. I upload on bato.to and then TheBenefactor kindly uploads here, so I don't really know how the commenting goes on here.
I am sorry if I was impolite in any way.
I am really sorry!!! I didn't mean it like that at all. I just find these types of conversations interesting. Bad habit of analyzing everything in The Queen. It is mostly the reason I am so attached to this project (quite obsessed, in fact).
And I just lately discovered the mangadex community. I upload on bato.to and then TheBenefactor kindly uploads here, so I don't really know how the commenting goes on here.
I am sorry if I was impolite in any way.
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@Mims You made a good point about how the author lets us draw our own conclusions and yeah with the whole fucked up ancient China palace/harem war, at the end of the day we have different people we can sympathize with.
But I disagree that Huan is a soldier who did what she HAD to do, as in her hands are forced. I'm sorry in advance if I misunderstood and got what you meant wrong, but I would consider her a leader who knows exactly what she was doing and made a conscious choice to do it. When she was being cruel, she chooses to do so, not because she has no other ways.
I hope I don't offend you, that's only my own opinion.
But I disagree that Huan is a soldier who did what she HAD to do, as in her hands are forced. I'm sorry in advance if I misunderstood and got what you meant wrong, but I would consider her a leader who knows exactly what she was doing and made a conscious choice to do it. When she was being cruel, she chooses to do so, not because she has no other ways.
I hope I don't offend you, that's only my own opinion.
I feel pity for her to a certain degree, but then again it was her arrogance and self made worth that ended up being her undoing.
Power can be given, but if that said power is just a shallow puddle with no depth is can easily be drained away by others.
Power can be given, but if that said power is just a shallow puddle with no depth is can easily be drained away by others.
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@Yatsuki
I feel a bit sad that you would think you would offend me because you voice your opinion. I must come across as tyrannical, which is not my intention at all!
The whole point of The Queen is to doubt, to discuss, to disagree. TUTU never makes any of her works easy to understand, the motivations of her characters are never clear and I don't remember ever having seen a completely black or a completely white character that she designed. You will be left second-guessing yourself throughout any of her stories. And you know what, that is exactly how life is! We can look at the actions of one same person and judge them completely differently, depending on our personal perspective! And our opinions change as well. TUTU's works are NEVER objective. They are more about the readers, they are about us getting to know ourselves through the characters. We will see the characters do absolutely repulsive, horrible things. And absolutely beautiful, amazing things. Season 1 was mostly about Saya, her actions, her motivations. The other seasons will have their own focuses.
I think I have changed my opinion of Saya at least 6000 times for the last year. And of Ling Zhi. And of Mu Xuanjue. Heck, I can even find a lot of admirable in the Empress Dowager! A LOT! And soon, I am going to start stop forming opinions altogether. I already have friends who have given up and have just decided to stay for the ride and whatever happens, happens. TUTU is emotionally and intellectually tiring.
I feel so ill at ease that you are asking for forgiveness for something that you are doing well! I am the one who is sorry that you feel uncomfortable voicing your thoughts in my presence. I realize I often sound very affirmative, but I don't wish to look like I am trying to muzzle anyone.
I feel a bit sad that you would think you would offend me because you voice your opinion. I must come across as tyrannical, which is not my intention at all!
The whole point of The Queen is to doubt, to discuss, to disagree. TUTU never makes any of her works easy to understand, the motivations of her characters are never clear and I don't remember ever having seen a completely black or a completely white character that she designed. You will be left second-guessing yourself throughout any of her stories. And you know what, that is exactly how life is! We can look at the actions of one same person and judge them completely differently, depending on our personal perspective! And our opinions change as well. TUTU's works are NEVER objective. They are more about the readers, they are about us getting to know ourselves through the characters. We will see the characters do absolutely repulsive, horrible things. And absolutely beautiful, amazing things. Season 1 was mostly about Saya, her actions, her motivations. The other seasons will have their own focuses.
I think I have changed my opinion of Saya at least 6000 times for the last year. And of Ling Zhi. And of Mu Xuanjue. Heck, I can even find a lot of admirable in the Empress Dowager! A LOT! And soon, I am going to start stop forming opinions altogether. I already have friends who have given up and have just decided to stay for the ride and whatever happens, happens. TUTU is emotionally and intellectually tiring.
I feel so ill at ease that you are asking for forgiveness for something that you are doing well! I am the one who is sorry that you feel uncomfortable voicing your thoughts in my presence. I realize I often sound very affirmative, but I don't wish to look like I am trying to muzzle anyone.
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@Mims Ah no it's really not you >"<. It's just that I have had pretty bad experience in the past when disagreeing with people with passionate opinion about a character. The thing with arguments or discussions over the internet is that people can misinterpret things quite fast and we're not there to rectify things immediately. True stories: I've answered someone's question with spoiler, in proper spoiler tag of course, and that person got mad at me for the spoiler and said they never asked for spoilers just discussion, and another time I was told I "put words in people's mouth" when I misunderstood their opinion so yeah... Since not only you are very polite, you are also the translator of this series (Which I'm really fond of), I really don't want to get in a fight with you over misunderstandings or misinterpretation of your opinions ^^
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Aww.. She really love her people..
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It's all politics in the end. Wars start, wars end - the important thing is the support of the people. Saya's family are failures because they did not maintain the support they required, and Saya herself is a failure because she did not achieve anything in the harem.
What a tragedy; it seems she really did try her best according to her ideals.
What a tragedy; it seems she really did try her best according to her ideals.
This is the game of survival. While I absolutely hate the Empress Dowanger and all her bullshit, Saya was willing to step and destroy anyone to get her goal, and in turn she was stepped on. I would sympathize with her more if her cruelty wasn't in full display. She tried to frame Ling and have are hands cut off, she torture someone to get her way, has broken many of the Emperor 'favorites' in the past to keep her place. When you are cruel the cruelty comes to bite. Not to mention she is very arrogant throughout despite the obvious disdain the Empress Dowanger has displayed towards her people thinking she can't be touched, and she was warned in the beginning that the aristocrats in Mirage were against war and her father and brothers were in a precarious situation.
In my view, she wanted to rule as well which meant destroying everything in her way.
When you play the game of thrones you win, or you die. Period.
In my view, she wanted to rule as well which meant destroying everything in her way.
When you play the game of thrones you win, or you die. Period.
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