Tonikaku Kawaii - Vol. 25 Ch. 232 - The power to reach beyond all else
- Thread starter MangaDex
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That’s an interesting perspective. I did not consider that. Though, I’m still of the opinion that her having a memory and being physically immutable is a (very minor) slip and not an intended detail, as in it won’t be pointed out/discussed (to no detriment to the series). The hair ornament on the other hand was highlighted and is interesting (that said, I’m not gonna be surprised if he kept it as a running joke instead).
To elaborate, based on how Hata did Hayate no Gotoku (same universe and timeline to my understanding as well), his use of supernatural phenomenon is quite slapdash with many things left unexplained, IMO for the better considering the story (his characters goofing around doing nothing serious commenting on real world meta stuff were great).
The supernatural then mainly serve as a plot device to advance the story and character development. As in he doesn’t really do deep dive detailed lore exposition, if anything it’s character centric to solidify the character rather than to fully explain the phenomenon. Rather, he makes good interesting characters and story, which this time they continuously flirt with each other and I’m all here for it.
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Bet all she needed to do was toss the hair band and she could die. But I am also guessing the next bit will be about Nasa gaining her immortality as well so she has someone to spend immortality with thus giving them both time to work on the issue.
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Hata sensei literally added a no nanomachines detected panel lol
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What if Nasa achieves immortality too?
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So that leaves us with quantum physics and multiverse of madness or magic xP
You don't give Hata enough credit, and that's due a small degree of inflexibility in your reasoning. The hair band being pointed out in the data is quite deliberate and actually addresses your point on the nature of this immutability. Hata had only a few panels to land this bombshell for us, and he used 1/3rd of them to mention the hairband.
The hair band is absolutely nonsense to preserve from any physically practical angle. It has no physically functional use to her, it's not a part of her body and it's also not even the same hairband she's always had, meaning she regenerates whichever one she's currently wearing.
This demonstrates how 'perfect' it is. I think Nasa already realized it right away, when he says this is more like the work of gods. It operates on no physically definable logic. Instead it preserves what we, the world, or herself recognizes to be "Tsukasa", which is a metaphysical concept of identity. This does not mean it's illogical, but it does mean you can't apply logic with physical constraints, like the assumption that her memory or state of mind is equally immutable. It allows her to change based upon causes that are social in nature for instance, or even go as far as to prevent changes based on a moralistic basis, such as violence.
Where I think we really don't give Hata enough credit is that in this latest series, he's presented a character (Nasa) who unlike many of his past ones, operate very firmly and logically in the present, not just literally, but also philosophically. Modern culture highly values the scientific method as the golden standard of thinking. Nasa not only conforms to that, he champions it. And Hata has written him very carefully so that even his usual slapstick comedy is more grounded this time around. This contrasts to ancient schools of thought where empiricism and rationalism were not the same thing and often in conflict, today we view them as being two sides of the same coin. This is a deliberate contrast to Tsukasa and her nature as an immortal, seemingly preserved only from an empirical perspective. A noted tenant of empiricism is that how you define what exists can actually change. This is also why the manga has spent so much page time in her past detailing her personal mental evolution over the hundreds of years of her life.
If you don't follow what I'm getting at, basically I am saying Hata has spent almost the entire series talking about her immortality, even when it's not very obvious, even when she's not in the room and even in the midst of a lot of the jokes. This series is the most well-thought out he's ever done, and I think it's amazing if he truthfully started from just wanting to do a purer, simpler love story based on his experience, like he claimed.
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Couldn't Tsukasa's apparent absolute immortality just be externally created? We know there are those so called Moon folks. It's possible that civilisation, wherever they are, possibly some parallel universe Moon, had added Tsukasa to their database, and their unimaginable system will keep Tsukasa existing, even rebuilding her her whole body and memories, if needed. Perhaps they will update their copy of Tsukasa's brain contents every second so that even if Tsukasa's brain was destroyed, they could just rebuild it.
This way no matter how much you studied Tsukasa herself, her body down to the atom level, you'd never find anything non-human about it. Because it's all about an external power. This external power would, in the end, only be somewhat more advanced than the Star Trek level. If in Star Trek you could store the transporter buffer, you could recreate a person as many times as you wanted. You'd just need to keep updating it to make sure no experiences are lost. And by studying the person themselves, you wouldn't find any clues to the "immortality".
This way no matter how much you studied Tsukasa herself, her body down to the atom level, you'd never find anything non-human about it. Because it's all about an external power. This external power would, in the end, only be somewhat more advanced than the Star Trek level. If in Star Trek you could store the transporter buffer, you could recreate a person as many times as you wanted. You'd just need to keep updating it to make sure no experiences are lost. And by studying the person themselves, you wouldn't find any clues to the "immortality".
Well, whether the cause of her immortality is mystical or physical, it's not really relevant whether the mechanism is external or not. The point is that it can't be comprehended by modern science or reasoning, not even a little bit, other than the result. Beyond even reasonably far-future science, is what Nasa is discovering about the ability.
By the way, unrelated to the actual topic. But as a someone who collects and nerded over Star Trek lore for over 20 years, transporters aren't able to recreate a person infinitely. They don't even technically recreate a person. There's inconsistencies in various lore, likely due to Trek writers themselves not understanding the lore or ignoring it. But in general operation, transporters convert a person from matter to energy, then back again, using the same energy. While they speak of storing people's "patterns", this is not that converted energy. It is a blueprint to reassemble the matter exactly as it was, with every original particle in place. Transporter duplicates are both a lore violation the writers did to themselves, and can also be considered a freak accident where the duplicated person really is more like a clone...aka they aren't equal, and one of them really is the original. Later transporter technology also identifies unique neural signatures in the matter-energy stream, that can't be duplicated and seems to be what they identify to be a person's actual consciousness. They may not understand it's nature, but they can isolate it and identify it. That tracks with Trek lore about physical beings being able to evolve into energy beings, and telepaths being able to transfer minds, all resulting in the continuation of unique instances of consciousness.
If anything, I'd say it's a good example of how we should be cautious about applying our modern common knowledge and understanding to concepts we do not currently have. The trope of transporters being this thing that "destroys" a person, copies their "pattern" then creates a duplicate in a new place, is born from an immediate lay assumption without studying and considering the specifics in depth.
What do you mean?
Look up brook Greenberg. She was an 18 year old girl who never aged past 1.One thing I always have an issue with the fictional depiction of immortality is that the memory of the immortal works.
The typical immortality depicted like in this chapter shows an “immutable” individual whose physical state is preserved. However, the way the brain works involves changes to its state. So, an immortal who can learn and remember new things is a contradiction based on this description.
Other possible issues.... doing the married couple things means that it will be as uncomfortable every time as it is the same as the first time for her. It would also be unlikely for her to ever conceive.
Also, in the same notion immortals won’t be able to build muscles, shed skin, have a haircut or grow their hair further. Though those haven’t been shown in this series.
These latter points might be part of the story for when(if) she lost her immortality and can grow old with Nasa.
Anyway enough of that. I’m pleased enough with the series when I see them flirt.
And aloneI wonder if one of the two things is the hope that humanity is able to leave the Earth and the solar system otherwise Tsukasa's ultimate destiny will be to reside in the core of a supremely dense neutron star remnant for eternity... burning and suffering, all her mass condensed to a single point, unable to die - forever and ever...
What do you mean dying for the experiment.
No one knows. There is a kaguya from love is war
Do you have the one in English?
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I think she didn't see the Kaguya from her era. So she doesn't know her looks!
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Lol! What's your point?
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It's been translated years ago. It's like soft sub, you hover over the boxes to see the translation, and can turn it off completely.
The only convenience is just you can't download it.
Never tried it with mobile browser, but should show up fine with desktop browser.