Translation - point of contention...

[Syri]

As I said, it was just my personal opinion.

Personal opinion or not, your understanding of the system in the context of the Japanese language is wrong, as is your attempt to like for like compare it with English. I think this is the part that people are jumping in on, not whether or not you think the system is right or wrong in any language, but your misunderstanding of the system as it is used in Japanese.

In my attempts to learn Japanese, as a native English speaker, I've learned that there is very little in common between the languages, and there is a lot more connection between language and society in Japan than in the UK at least. As for the things they have in common, they have nouns, adverbs, verbs and adjectives. That's pretty much it. Seriously. Sentence structure, writing format, pronunciation rules, all totally different.

The translations that preserve the Japanese honorifics do so in an attempt to preserve the context, usually accompanied with some translation notes somewhere, to allow the reader to understand the societal impact they can have on a conversation. For example, using only someone's given name when talking to them, with no honorific or anything, is perfectly normal in the UK, but in Japan that would imply a closeness to that person, and if they don't feel that way about you, it could then be seen as rude, especially if you know how they feel. If you cut that entire system out, you can actually lose a lot of the context of a conversation.

 

[Lewd_Beast]

I didn't want to address it earlier to keep this as civil as it gets but the fact you talk about Japan this way while having an anime style elf doing a porno face as your profile picture really bothers me.

I think you can figure out why.
Sometimes I wonder if people like you actually like the media they consume.

I don't think you comment is in any way uncivil. I have a complicated relationship with it all. Some things I love, other things I despise, but isn't that life?
I love the expressions Lewd Beast and Thieving Cat, but being a man, I went with Lewd Beast. Same with the ridiculously fictional Ahegao face. I find it amusing that they have a word for that unrealistic facial expression. On the flip side, I get deeply frustrated by Japan's unhealthy relationship with sex. They will pixelate genitalia, but happily depict rape and slavery and revel in NTR. The have gropers on trains as well as people who panic over using a first name. Maybe all the other countries in the world have the exact same issues, but I am not aware of anyone else publicising as freely in their popular culture.

 

[Lewd_Beast]

Personal opinion or not, your understanding of the system in the context of the Japanese language is wrong, as is your attempt to like for like compare it with English. I think this is the part that people are jumping in on, not whether or not you think the system is right or wrong in any language, but your misunderstanding of the system as it is used in Japanese.

In my attempts to learn Japanese, as a native English speaker, I've learned that there is very little in common between the languages, and there is a lot more connection between language and society in Japan than in the UK at least. As for the things they have in common, they have nouns, adverbs, verbs and adjectives. That's pretty much it. Seriously. Sentence structure, writing format, pronunciation rules, all totally different.

The translations that preserve the Japanese honorifics do so in an attempt to preserve the context, usually accompanied with some translation notes somewhere, to allow the reader to understand the societal impact they can have on a conversation. For example, using only someone's given name when talking to them, with no honorific or anything, is perfectly normal in the UK, but in Japan that would imply a closeness to that person, and if they don't feel that way about you, it could then be seen as rude, especially if you know how they feel. If you cut that entire system out, you can actually lose a lot of the context of a conversation.

I take all that on board, but on the other hand, their character art style does everything it can to obliterate their physical appearance, with huge colourful eyes, cat like features and a massive range of hair colours. So, to me, it is odd that they shy away from their own physicality but double down on certain aspects of their culture.

 

[AspiringMangaReader]

Personally the same way in regards to honorifics. Now I should stress that I absolutely don't hate them and in a way it makes me nostalgic for the days of when everyone ended up learning a whole bunch of random Japanese phrases because sub groups didn't bother to properly translate them and instead slapped a note explaining them. Also it's easy enough for me to make the mental switch.

But also... we've got basically our own honorifics. The whole point of translation and localization is to make material from another culture able to be consumed without hassle and while you do lose something dropping them? Honestly, you always will lose a little bit, it's unavoidable and frankly I feel it's a small price to pay. I think about it in the same way that translating jokes from Japanese can be a hassle if the joke itself is based heavily in wordplay. You either bite the bullet and write out the joke as best you can or you figure out how to go for something with the same spirit and with all due respect, I'd much rather it be more easily readable but true to the spirit. Now some manga do mitigate this by including an explanation of what each honorific means and I think that's fine. It's preserving that aspect while explaining the significance. I also don't mind it in stories where the point is that it's dealing with multiple cultures so including honorifics helps actually to demonstrate this aspect.

Though that really shows translation is not a science. Everyone has preferences and bug bears and really unless it is translated in such a way that it completely disregards the original context ala what many hack dubs back in the day would do? Frankly, preference is just preference. I think as long as no one is making hardline "honorifics do not belong in translation" statements, it's fair to have that thought. You're not disrespecting the language by saying this. To use an outside example, it's like the series Transformers and all the times the heroic leader Optimus Prime is portrayed with a mouth. My personal opinion? I don't vibe with the mouth, I will never like it and will just prefer he keeps his mouthplate at all times. But it doesn't offend me and I know why it crops up so any time it does? I get my mental eyeroll in and I move on.