Tsuihou Suru Gawa no Monogatari - Vol. 3 Ch. 22 - Cooperation

[Rex_Nichts]

Alright, I have some good news everyone. I hope you're not sitting down because you're gonna want to stand up.

THIS MANGA SI FINALLY IN THE BOTTOM 10 ON THE WEBSITE!!!! WOOOOOO!!!

It took like what? An entire year to finally get to this point. But thanks to everyone's efforts, we're finally able to break through the hall of shame! Man, what a ride it's been. I will continue documenting this dogshit's downfall until the end at chapter 33 (if the translator doesn't just abandon this dumpster fire) but man, it's such a great manga to shit on. You cannot like any character because they're all assholes, with the sole exception of the guy they're painting as the bad guy. The story is also super convoluted but also super dumb at the same time. It's such a great mess that you just love to see how much worse it gets every chapter. Everyone should congratulate themselves for your efforts in pushing this shit stain of a story down as low as it is currently. This is only possible with everyone's cooperation and absolute hatred for this septic tank of a manga.

Either way, as of 27 July 2024, at 1:11 AM UTC+0, this manga stands low at 3.85. A drastic drop from its previous rating at 3.98. That being said, I forgot to document the previous 2 chapters because I forgot this abomination existed, so we might've broken through the bottom 10 during those 2 chapters, so the hype is already dead at this point I think but still, congratulations for this manga to achieve as low as it does.

The former bottom 10 was an NTR manga at 3.87, and the next one to beat, the bottom 9, is a Chinese manhwa at 3.81. Keep up the great work guys!!!

 

[Puck2]

You cannot like any character because they're all assholes, with the sole exception of the guy they're painting as the bad guy

Even Est turned into a mindless puppet following all of Daru's orders (at least that is what I get from the comments as I stopped reading the manga).

I forgot to document the previous 2 chapters

The TL team finished the last chapters pretty fast. It's great that they try to finish what they started (before the manga hits the bottom) but unfortunately their time and efforts are wasted on this. I hope that they pick up a manga that people actually enjoy reading (not hate-reading) because they do a good job. There are so many promising series that were dropped by other groups.

 

[Crim]

I'll never understand why this manga is always dogpiled on and so many other paint-by-the-number self-insert stories get a pass, or are even praised. Looking at how the comments have been going for a while I'm pretty sure it's largely just a "most people don't like it so I'm gonna hate on it too" kind of meme rather than any actual demerits of the story--which don't get me wrong, there are LOTS, but this isn't close to even the bottom 10 I've seen on mangadex. Y'all need to calm it down.

 

[Rex_Nichts]

I'll never understand why this manga is always dogpiled on and so many other paint-by-the-number self-insert stories get a pass, or are even praised. Looking at how the comments have been going for a while I'm pretty sure it's largely just a "most people don't like it so I'm gonna hate on it too" kind of meme rather than any actual demerits of the story--which don't get me wrong, there are LOTS, but this isn't close to even the bottom 10 I've seen on mangadex. Y'all need to calm it down.

Right on my guy. I never actually cared enough about this manga until it got so much 1 ratings that I thought it could be possible to insert it in the bottom 10. Which is why I'm here. I hated this manga but I never hated it so much that I would waste this much time on it. I just found it fun to dogpile on this dogshit. And man, is it fun to hate on this manga.

 

[Puck2]

I'll never understand why this manga is always dogpiled on and so many other paint-by-the-number self-insert stories get a pass, or are even praised. Looking at how the comments have been going for a while I'm pretty sure it's largely just a "most people don't like it so I'm gonna hate on it too" kind of meme rather than any actual demerits of the story--which don't get me wrong, there are LOTS, but this isn't close to even the bottom 10 I've seen on mangadex. Y'all need to calm it down.

I think the people who hate on the story because other people hate on it are the minority.

If I had to guess, most people hate this manga is because it promised something and never delivered. In this sense "paint-by-the-number self insert stories" are better because you get what you expect.

This manga boasted to be different but it failed everyone's expectations: you get the same story in a worse way. You still have the banished trope with the classical banishing party heartlessly kicking the party member. Though they claim to have noble reasons their actions stay the same. Furthermore it didn't develop into a growth story of the two childhood friends but in a big Daru show. In this story he has both roles, the banisher and the MC who becomes the strongest and gets all the girls (at least they fall for him). The actions of the characters often make no sense and only serve to make Daru shine.

To put it in a nutshell, many people started reading this manga because they author promised something different. But they got disappointed rather quickly. All you can do is pity the banished person but you are forced to read about the banishers who claim to be good (while having purely selfish reasons). Other stories, even though they are just average, fulfill their purpose: slight entertainment with a person to root for. You get what you "paid" for. This manga (after boasting) doesn't meet the expectations: there are no likable characters or an original story and every chapter makes you feel bad.
I think many readers (me included) regret to have started reading it because of the author's promises, but the problem is, once you've read it you can't unread it.

 

[Crim]

(snip because I hate posting from my phone)

This is fair criticism, though I personally think the story has more character development than most similar stories; the characters overcome their shortcomings and differences to grow as people, which is somewhat normal. but as I said before in previous chapter comments, the biggest differentiator for me is that most of the time for manga like these when the hero and villain confront each other, one is made out to be blatantly and cartoonishly wrong or bad and the hero great and right. Though the circumstances of the misunderstanding were indeed pretty eye-rolling, if absolutely nothing else I think the story deserves props for the two of them talking as rational adults, acknowledging they both made mistakes, and leaving on somewhat decent terms. The fact that such a development is a breath of fresh air is perhaps a problem in and of itself for manga like this as a whole, but the fact that most people ignored it or didn't seem to notice was odd.

Does that make this a great story? Hell no, it still has lots of flaws. To a certain extent the hero being gassed up/the center of attention is to be expected for any kind of story, but I can see why people get frustrated with it.

My main beef is that based on several comments here and in previous chapters, it seems like people are just rating low for the sake of TRYING to get it low rather than as a reflection of the story itself. Kind of like the YouTube rewinds, most people are ambivalent towards it, but it's a meme to dislike them so people do it just because it's funny. That kind of bad-faith trend chasing has always annoyed me personally, and seeing the same kind of thing happening here is no different. Its not like the author himself gives a fuck, he'll never see it, but if nothing else it feels unfair to the TL group since theyre doing a good job of it even if the story sure as hell ain't gonna be winning any awards while other far shittier mtl-tier (or actual mtl) translations fly under the radar.

 

[Puck2]

though I personally think the story has more character development than most similar stories

In my opinion, there is no (natural) character development at all. The FMC stays weak in battle, the only difference is the person who saves her all the time. Though she is described as a great leader and compassionate person she has absolutely no idea what happens around her. The only person that "grows" is Daru, but he doesn't really grow, he just reveals his powers he had from the beginning. To make Daru shine Est is even hindered in his growth. The reconciliation scene (I admit that it was the first good moment in the story, that's why I stopped reading there) could have been a chance to make it a growth story, but apparently it got downhill again. Athena again needs Daru to save her and Est also blindly follows his orders even though he doesn't know that he has OP powers and isn't some lazy drunkard. He also hasn't grown. He just gave up on his past, on his "friends" and on his love to start a new life with strangers.
So in the end, we have two persons who used to be childhood friends: one who gave up on everything and one that didn't catch any of it. If you ask me, that's a hell of a depressing plot.

My main beef is that based on several comments here and in previous chapters, it seems like people are just rating low for the sake of TRYING to get it low rather than as a reflection of the story itself.

As I mentioned before, I think these people are the minority in the voting. I think most people are genuinely disappointed in a story that promised to be a growth story but turned out to be a one-man-story stopping at nothing to make the (unlikable) MC shine.
I think that the publishers actually wanted this kind of reaction as the webnovel and the lightnovel were received in the same way and they didn't change anything (some scenes are even worse).

 

[Crim]

(snip)

While I don't fully agree with all of your points, I can at least see where you're coming from, which I can respect.

Publishers I can't really speak on as I have not read the WN nor am i I familiar with the publisher for this series, though it's an open secret that many isekai/revenge/self insert stories get published and/or adapted regardless of (or perhaps because of) their low quality since the genres continue to be popular and sell, even if only briefly.

For this series in particular, one of my original points was that many stories are far worse on mangadex but rated higher, which I found unfair to this story; I didn't take into consideration the fact that many people might see a very obviously bad story (such as the many series that have titles like "I got transferred to another world but I actually have super cheats!?!?!?" or similar) and simply not read it in the first place, whereas this story at least seemed on the surface to be different and was therefore rated low when that didnt pan out as you said.

While I can't bring myself to agree that the majority rated it low with that reasoning considering the amount of brigading there has been in the comments, I can concede that point since you do put forth some solid arguments. Either way, it seems many of us are here to stay until the end, so we'll just have to see how the rest of it pans out--even if the poor reception seems to be set in stone.

 

[wallsg]

I'll never understand why this manga is always dogpiled on and so many other paint-by-the-number self-insert stories get a pass, or are even praised. Looking at how the comments have been going for a while I'm pretty sure it's largely just a "most people don't like it so I'm gonna hate on it too" kind of meme rather than any actual demerits of the story--which don't get me wrong, there are LOTS, but this isn't close to even the bottom 10 I've seen on mangadex. Y'all need to calm it down.

Because Trolls gotta Troll. They only get satisfaction from tearing things down and gloating about it.

 

[T-sama]

I'll never understand why this manga is always dogpiled on and so many other paint-by-the-number self-insert stories get a pass, or are even praised. Looking at how the comments have been going for a while I'm pretty sure it's largely just a "most people don't like it so I'm gonna hate on it too" kind of meme rather than any actual demerits of the story--which don't get me wrong, there are LOTS, but this isn't close to even the bottom 10 I've seen on mangadex. Y'all need to calm it down.

As someone else said it might be trolling, if not that they're all butthurt over Est, they project themselves on him, it's why they hate the other characters so much.

Like when someone rage over NTR cause they project themselves in the guy who had their girl stolen, they just can't control themselves.

 

[YamiryuuZero]

I'll never understand why this manga is always dogpiled on and so many other paint-by-the-number self-insert stories get a pass, or are even praised. Looking at how the comments have been going for a while I'm pretty sure it's largely just a "most people don't like it so I'm gonna hate on it too" kind of meme rather than any actual demerits of the story--which don't get me wrong, there are LOTS, but this isn't close to even the bottom 10 I've seen on mangadex. Y'all need to calm it down.

But this is a self insert story. Daru is clearly the self insert protagonist that gets all the girls wet and they are constantly trying to please him because they are in love with him or respect him more than anything else in the world. Even the lesbian had thought about him before (almost) dying despite being in love with Athena.

The reason we are all hating on this manga is because it is a lesson on how not to write a story. It attempted to do things a certain way but failed to, so the author tried to course correct in order to make the audience feel a certain way about his characters but just ended up doubling down on what made the audience have the opposite reaction and he still doesn't understand that, so he ends up attempting to diminish the damage he caused in-universe by making the characters easily forgive each other, which is way past the time for such a simplistic resolution now that the problems have piled up and become a sentient monster of issues.

The author was aware of the hate his work was getting (this is an adaptation of a Light Novel), but he couldn't understand WHY his work was so hated. In an attempt to make people love his work without understanding what the inherit issue with his writing was, he ended up making things worse and the story went on.

There's nothing wrong with the hate this manga is receiving.

 

[Crim]

Snip

I've discussed this more in the other chapter comments sections and have come to agreements on some points, but for the sake of discussion:

Self insert story

Yes, and so are 99.999% of other isekai manga, or most manga in general for that matter. Self insert is a form of escapism, and manga being a form of storytelling means it's inherently escapism as well. Something being a self insert story doesn't make it automatically bad, and people trying to make it some sort of horrible mark of shame is ridiculous when other loved series do it and get a free pass. All the tropes--every single one--this series does has been done in so many other token isekai power fantasy stories, and will be done in series to come. These other series aren't that great either, but they don't all have comment sections cheering for low ratings, and some of them are even rated quite highly. The fact this series in particular gets a pitchfork mob when others don't has always rubbed me the wrong way; as I've said before, at LEAST this series has the two characters talking to each other in a mature way and coming to mutual understanding instead of the usual "one side is overtly bad and the MC says something that makes them look bad and him the super smart good guy." That doesn't automatically make it good or immune to criticism, but to me it was refreshing.

That's my argument for this series in general: no, the series is not good. It's not going to be in anyones top ten, or even top 100 favorite series. But the fact that I'm reading comments keeping tally on how many one star ratings it gets and celebrating "milestones" for it to me means that people are rating it low as a meme rather than as a rating of the story itself. Think things like Rebecca blacks Friday, Concord, Morbius, etc; yes these things are bad, but many people hating on them are doing so just because its the popular and funny thing to do. That absolutely isn't to say that many, or perhaps most, ratings aren't "genuine,' but to say the rating isn't affected by the meme crowd would be wrong.

The series deserves criticism, much like nearly every single isekai, party revenge, or generalized power fantasy story out there. But to say nothing is wrong with the hate when looking at the disproportionate levels of it versus it's actual "crimes" is absolutely disingenuous.