Ueno-san wa Bukiyou - Vol. 4 Ch. 35 - S'handpaper

[Haremmony]

@Oeconomist, you seriously trying to bluff your way using semantics? SERIOUSLY? Lol.

Come on man, the fact is, what you suggest didn't happen in the chapter proper. As you provide reasons as to why such thing should've happen, i counter by providing reasons as to justify why the author doesn't make it happen. Simple as that. Can't be helped that it seems you're quite a persistent person.

 

[Oeconomist]

@Haremmony—

Semantics is study of the meaning of words. You keep grossly misrepresenting what I've said. Now, when called on your misrepresentation, you want to dismiss the difference between what I've said and what you've pretended that I've said as a matter of semantics. Just argue honestly and logically, and I won't have to discuss such differences.

Nope. I noted a way for Ueno or Yamashita to extract Ueno from her problem. You didn't merely explain why the author didn't have them do such a thing; you tried to argue that the path to which I pointed wouldn't have worked for Ueno.

 

[Haremmony]

@Oeconomist, Pfft, you didn't even realize you're doing it again there, using semantic to twist the argument to your liking.

Okay then, let's start from the beginning honestly and logically, what are your complains to this chapter?

 

[Oeconomist]

@Haremmony—

You don't get a reset.

I'm using the actual meaning of my remarks to defend my remarks. You don't get to pretend that I've said something different and then use the word “semantics” as if that licenses you to do so.

 

[Haremmony]

@Oeconomist, so are you.

So don't try to use semantic to make the problem unclear.

Why Ueno and Yamashita doesn't clean the leg hair when Tanaka goes out? Because it's useless.

 

[Oeconomist]

@Haremmony—

All of the muddying here has been by you. It probably wasn't deliberate in the beginning, but it became so when you found it awkward to have me point repeatedly to the stark difference between what I'd said and what you'd claimed me to assume.

Usefulness is determined by objectives. Given Ueno's objectives and Yamashita's objectives, removing Ueno's leg hair would have been highly useful.

 

[Oeconomist]

@kaitomk—

Nope. But Haremmony has shifted from a sincere but incompetent argument to an insincere but incompetent argument on his-or-her way to just trolling in an ridiculous attempt not to seem foolish. When it gets to that last stage, things will essentially be done.

 

[Haremmony]

@Oeconomist, Then let me ask you (how many times does i have to wrote those words to you i wonder?) what are Ueno and Yamashita's objectives, hmm?

My first reply to you was telling you about how the initial objective is to make Tanaka rub Ueno's thigh, which if that is still true until the end of chapter, then your argument already falls.

BUT! You argue that after Ueno fall into the state of stunned depression, the priority shift into proofing that Ueno don't grew leg hair. In which i argue that if there should be change in priority, it should be about convincing Tanaka (and by extension Ueno) that it's normal for girl to grew leg hair.

THEN! You for some reason in your next comment instead are arguing about how Ueno and Yamashita doesn't have any control about Tanaka's perception, and that they're lucky that their next witness, which is the swimming club leader, can attest to girls growing leg hair.

REGARDLESS! My next reply is about my reasoning as of why even if it's true that Ueno and Yamashita doesn't have control over what Tanaka would think, their highest priority at the moment is to brought up the idea that being "hairy" is not something a girl should be ashamed of, which is why, for both of them, or just Yamashita really, considering the state Ueno is in at the moment, doesn't think that cleaning the leg hair at the moment of interest would be helpful at all.

AND THEN! You begin to use semantic. And after accusing me of simply assuming, you claim right after that cleaning the leg hair at that moment would prevent Tanaka from concluding Ueno is lacking feminity, despite your own claim beforehand about how Ueno and Yamashita doesn't have any control to Tanaka's perception.

AFTER WHICH! I accuse you of assuming yourself, and demand explanation as to why you think cleaning the leg hair would, in other words, proof that Ueno does have feminity.

AND THEN COMES MORE SEMANTIC! With your next reply, conveniently evading my question to you, which is so out-of-nowhere i can't help but make my next reply be nothing but mocking you for it, lol.

I'm sorry, if there's someone who are not being sincere here, it's you. You conveniently use semantic to twist Ueno and Yamashita's objectives so that for some reason cleaning the leg hair is a good course of action to take without answering my earlier query.

 

[Oeconomist]

@Haremmony—

Nope. The objectives with which people begin a course of action are often abandoned when they are discovered to be in conflict with something of greater priority. Indeed, Ueno began with an objective of having Tanaka stroke her legs; she had utterly failed to consider that, in his ignorance, he might think her naturally growing visible leg hair to be unfeminine. She was arrested by the discovery that he would think such a thing, because it was of higher priority for her that he not think her unfeminine than that he stroke her legs. Your claim that her principal desire was to be stroked is falsified by her psychological collapse and literally spiritual crisis.

It is absurd to argue that they should try to do what they plainly could not do (enlighten Tanaka); that is the “some reason” that I noted that Ueno and Yamashita exhausted their means of convincing Tanaka in the short term that leg hair were natural, without success. Given that Ueno and Yamashita could not achieve this thing (an enlightenment of Tanaka) that you said that they should seek, the only way for them to get that thing is for someone else to provide it; that is the “some reason” that I said that they were lucky to get the intervention of the swim-club president.

You plowed ahead with the idea that they should try to do what they had no short-term means of doing. I noted that removing Ueno's hair would buy time for them to educate him over a longer period, without his concluding in the meantime that Ueno were unfeminine.

Then you started claiming that I'd assumed things that didn't fit what I'd said, and as I began pointing to the differences, you tried to dismiss the exposure of your misrepresentations as “semantics” But that cheap dismissal keeps exploding in your face.

My claim wasn't that Ueno and Yamashita had no control over Tanaka's perception o f Ueno; it was that they had no control over his perception of leg hair. Given their inability to control the latter, they could control the former by using the glove.

I had already answered your query. What I refused was to begin the discussion all over, as if you could have a clean slate.

 

[Oeconomist]

@Tcof—

This being the Internet, it's hard to tell whether your question is serious.

Most people, male and female, naturally grow hair on all of their skin surface, except for the palms of their hands and the soles of their feet (and even palms and soles often have hair in utero). Coarse hair is very common on the legs of women, though somewhat less common amongst Asian women. Those without coarse hair on their legs almost always have finer, lighter hair like that found on the face.

 

[Haremmony]

@Oeconomist, Please don't tell me you didn't realize this comment of yours is full of result of semantic-tricks, jeez.

I swear, our problem is we have totally different understanding about what is it that really make Ueno depressed there:
>I bet yours is that because Ueno actually had leg hair, hence you thought cleaning the leg hair would solve the problem.
>While mine is because Ueno is a girl that actually grew leg hair, hence cleaning the leg hair will only serve as a testament that Ueno found her leg hair worthy of embarrassment.

You know what, i got a feeling that even if i try to convince you that my reason to Ueno's depression is more correct, you'll just gonna use semantic to evade the problem.

So i'll admit defeat here. Thank you for entertaining me with this debate.

 

[Oeconomist]

@Haremmony—

Pointing-out the differences between what I've actually said and what you've claimed me to think or to have said isn't a trick. You're not entitled to misrepresent my thoughts or words.

I don't think that Ueno has a psychological crisis because she has leg hair; she had noticeable leg hair when she got up that morning.

I don't know why you draw a distinction between having leg hair and growing leg hair, but she was also growing leg hair when she got up in the morning, and presumably had been for many days. So growing leg hair didn't bring-on her crisis.

Ueno's crisis is because she has discovered that Tanaka would think her unusual for being a female with noticeable leg hair, and she guesses that he will think her less desirable for being unusual in this way. (He might not think her less desirable, but at least in this expectation she's reasonable.)

It would be nice if you stopped flailing here.

 

[Haremmony]

@Oeconomist, I already admit defeat, so unfortunately i won't argue with your statement anymore, so from now on i'm probably just going to make fun of you, considering even right now you still make me want to laugh. XD

It's also interesting how you always manage to mock me with something that can also be said to you. Now that's talent.

 

[Oeconomist]

@Haremmony—

from now on i'm probably just going to make fun of you, considering even right now you still make me want to laugh. XD

I told kaitomk that you'd end-up just trolling, in an attempt not to see foolish, and here you are.

As to your adopting an I'm-rubber-you're-glue response, well, anyone can try that; but I don't think that it's very effective even in kindergarten.

 

[Haremmony]

@Oeconomist, Yeah, trolling you honestly is easier. Also, if you think i'm doing the rubber-glue stance, why bother mocking me then? And actually, rubber-glue strategy can be a valid and effective strategy, for facing people like you for example.

Also, why are you so sure about the kindergarten part? You ever tried those while you're there? /s

 

[Oeconomist]

@Haremmony—

Yeah, trolling you honestly is easier.

It might seem that way, but it won't get you anything particularly desirable.

Also, if you think i'm doing the rubber-glue stance, why bother mocking me then?

In my remark about your flailing, I was obliquely expressing my doubt that you would actually stop; and you haven't.

And actually, rubber-glue strategy can be a valid and effective strategy, for facing people like you for example.

No, it's certainly not valid, because it can be used by anyone against anyone. (For example, Ted Bundy could claim that his accusers rather than he were sociopathic killers.) A valid argument would be one that only worked when the claim to which it responded were false but would be true if directed against the initial accuser. And, because the argument is not valid, it is not effective against someone who will point-out its invalidity. Since I'm one of those people who will point-out its invalidity, it isn't effective against me.

Also, why are you so sure about the kindergarten part?

Since I said “I don't think that it's very effective” rather than “it's not very effective”, you really have no basis for guaging how sure or unsure I am about its effectiveness amongst kindergarteners.

You ever tried those while you're there?

What gives one a sense of its effectiveness would not be whether one used it, but whether it was used against oneself and against those whom one knew. Would I have believed it if someone used it against me in kindergarten? Nope. Would I have believed it if someone had used it against someone else in kindergarten? Nope. Did other kindergarteners seem actually to believe it? Nope. Yet, somehow, you expect it to work here.

 

[GondiTheCat]

Ueno got in a hairy situation.
.... I'll excuse myself....

I love the sisters. Need moar sisters.

 

[Jmerz]

S'Handpaper sounds like a cinco product, lol

 

[Tamerlane]

So she invented Nair?

 

[LegionGuy49]

I thought that people would be talking about how Ueno died but okay