Vinland Saga - Ch. 202 - Thousand Year Voyage Part 11

[Kanami-chan]

canute swiftly cured covid

 

[Gem-Bug]

So you would just stand there and watch or just walk away if you saw your kid get molested?

You took a wrong turn on the way to Twitter, I think

 

[bosmo]

Damn they got covid back then?

 

[Baddan]

Thorfinn has completely lost his mind. Has he forgotten that punching people also classifies as violence?

 

[gundulgondrong]

Covid Saga

 

[TheGodEmperor]

Man, that is some shit way to handle things, Canute. Not that they knew better.

Also, good on Thorfinn working to stick to his values. That is honorable.

Also also, this mean still getting translations cause k Manga turned out to be ass?

 

[Makenai]

This time I agree with Thorfinn. Lets not forget Miskwekepu'j set this all up and wants to be killed just to prove his point. Yes, if killing him gets them peace I'd agree but it won't. They have to talk it out.

I'm curious how things go down now. Is it Hild or the plague.

 

[BambuszManus]

I love Vinland Saga but we all know Thorfinn and Canute will fail. Even if the manga changed some details it still follows the historical events. The nordic settlements in America died out or abandoned and Canute's North Sea Empire fall apart. This manga was never about how they would achive their goal but about how they become the ones that will try to create an utopia even if it's impossible. That's why it's such a great manga, because it's not showing an unrealistic solution to our world's problem but different point of views how we can live our life.

 

[tunglam264]

There's no righteous violence, but there is necessary violence.

 

[Kierlak]

Unfathomably based Thorfinn.

There can be no "righteous violence", I too believe this.

Self defense. Both you and Thorfinn have lost the game.

 

[Rogojinen]

Only a sith deals in absolutes, Thornfinn!

"There is no righteous violence."
I can't help to admire how brave and extreme that is, to be so dedicated to pacifism this completely, but those words fall flat to me. Thors was an admirable man, but he got killed and his son ended up a child soldier consumed by revenge and then a slave. Brutal and plain reality. Ideals will have to meet outside agents not moved by them.

For that, I really appreciated Einar's stance here, that he was honest enough to admit now that the action was done in his favor, Canute and Hild's realpolitik is harder for him to critique.

I do agree that violence and murder are lazy and usually unnecessary shortcuts. We don't need what's the pandemic but the better thing to do would be to quarantine the village. Wait and see. Is it even deadly? How is it transmitted? To determine which food is safe to eat, which destinations are safe to send sailors and merchants to, etc. Because ignorance only bring more harm.

It's the same problem in Vinland. Most of the issue comes from the language barrier, barrier that was starting to be crossed. The elder and the sword guy needed to be arrested, but killing them is not needed. A little time with Thornfinn and in the village, and he'd see his visions and fears weren't about the literal most peaceful village on Earth. Same for the Lnu, that look like a chill extended family revolving around a nice matriarch. There's nothing to fear.

TLDR: Thornfinn won't get anywhere without showing better results with his way. Saying it's not nice to be mean won't keep people safe and stop bloodthirsty fools.

 

[MusashiKarlsefni]

Thorfinn has completely lost his mind. Has he forgotten that punching people also classifies as violence?

Did you actually read this chapter? He literally admits that he was wrong for doing that, and went against his own beliefs. He feels ashamed with his own immaturity for relying on violence, going against what he preached when backed into a corner. He criticized himself. Wether you agree with him is one thing, which is what I find so intriguing about his journey, he’s trying to find the middle way and will learn he can’t be so naive and idealistic.

 

[yasashikakashi]

The middle ground between absolute pacifism and killing is crippling.
Ropes that temporarily restrain an opponent.
Breaking their sword arm that they'll heal in 3 months.
Cripple your opponents and take them to the medbay
Yesterday's enemy is tomorrow's crippled ally.

 

[Konrad2]

Thanks for the translation.

 

[Bananimal]

Canute is just as foolish as Thorfinn, two idealists trying so hard to create a perfect world. Even if they lived in a time where they could comprehend foreign language and disease, the fact is that other people's actions are just impossible to control. Time is their ultimate enemy, because once they're gone, their lovely dreams go with them and it's up to others to decide what to do with their legacy.

 

[Goyal99Raj]

Honestly I hope we find out some twist to Hild's plans pretty soon here because, like.....even from the most cold-blooded perspective.....this just seems dumb?

Like....how does she think it's gonna go if Miskwekepu'j just turns up dead one day when tensions with the nords are already high? Or even just conveniently goes missing? The Lnu are probably going to connect some dots together if that happens, and nobody's likely to feel great about where those dots lead. This seems like basic shit.

maybe kill him openly and then offer yourself up as punishment is her plan?

still very very risky, but a little less dumb....

 

[Theozilla]

Did you actually read this chapter? He literally admits that he was wrong for doing that, and went against his own beliefs. He feels ashamed with his own immaturity for relying on violence, going against what he preached when backed into a corner. He criticized himself. Wether you agree with him is one thing, which is what I find so intriguing about his journey, he’s trying to find the middle way and will learn he can’t be so naive and idealistic.

Technically what Thorfinn said is that he wasn’t “right”. The specificity of Thorfinn’s words matter in his discussion on morality and ethics. I think this frequently trips up readers who think Thorfinn is categorizing all forms of violence as equally “bad/wrong”. But it should be evident from this series that Thorfinn recognizes there are different gradations and contexts of violence (if he didn’t he wouldn’t resort to his compromises of self-defense). Him not considering his compromises as “righteous” (i.e. inherently good) doesn’t mean he is considering them as “wrong”/equally bad, but rather something he believe he can and should do better on.

 

[Gilgamesh0024]

Self defense. Both you and Thorfinn have lost the game.

Unfortunately for you, I have already depicted you as a soyjak, and me as the chad, your argument is null and void, and thus, I have won!

(In all seriousness though, I cannot accept that violence - in any form - is righteous, and that one should always take the path of speech and diplomacy, regardless of situation.

For example, if someone wants to take your land, instead of taking up arms, and brutally fighting them; instead you should sit down at a table (any table will do), and discuss -why- this person wants your land, and, if possible, come to a mutal compromise that both parties deem satisfactory.

 

[Kierlak]

Unfortunately for you, I have already depicted you as a soyjak, and me as the chad, your argument is null and void, and thus, I have won!

(In all seriousness though, I cannot accept that violence - in any form - is righteous, and that one should always take the path of speech and diplomacy, regardless of situation.

For example, if someone wants to take your land, instead of taking up arms, and brutally fighting them; instead you should sit down at a table (any table will do), and discuss -why- this person wants your land, and, if possible, come to a mutal compromise that both parties deem satisfactory.

I agree. Ukraine should stop fighting and soaking up all of the money on the planet, and just talk to Russia.

 

[Metadragon]

This is the story introducing the idea of righteous violence. I agree there is righteous violence. Its the type that allows you to defend from those unwilling, unable or to abhorrent to allow for peace.