Yofukashi no Uta - Ch. 164 - Curse

[Billzilla2000]

I'll give this one more chapter, but from my perspective this was at least partly a guided/assisted suicide of a kid with a tiny fraction the life experience vs. an old vampire like Kiku. She didn't seem to care, even if Mahiru's announcement wasn't the official plan up to that point. Also, the near instantaneous and conveniently simultaneous sunlight death of a vampire (whether that's Mahiru or both of them) flies in the face of the lore established up to that point.

Kou's bringing the memento mori of sorts was pretty chilling. He's actually rather calm about this? Or does he have something up his sleeve? One more chapter - and if this is portrayed as 'Mahiru did a thing with full autonomy and agency - and we are all fine with this and Kiku didn't influence him at all' then I'm definitely out and I won't view Kotoyama's works the same way again. Won't be the first time I bailed on a series after seeing affirmation/celebration of some disturbing logic/ethics/sociopathy.

 

[Billzilla2000]

From my theory, Mahiru, right after turning into a vampire, bited Kiku back. So by that they would both die since both of them drank a loved's blood

Possible, and since Kotoyama clearly loves to insert lore wherever he feels like it, even in a moment spanning seconds, what does it even matter? He could dissect any event and show how everyone was wrong to expect this or that, because a lifetime of story can be retroactively stuffed in there.

IMO that works OK as a very occasional plot tool for unique situations or the very end of a story. It doesn't work well when you're doing it every other chapter for everything 'under the sun', pun intended.

 

[Jadeite_McSwag]

Holy cow people actually do complain about the story being revealed non linearly, honestly weird.

Lmao there's a difference between non linear story telling and excessive flashbacks galore

 

[Alcion]

"Officer, I only gave my child a machine gun and lots of ammunition knowing they have chance for severe mental instability, how can it be my fault they murdered others??"

Its called "complicity", shes FACILITATING and AIDING as a consequence of NEGLIGENCE on her DIRECT AND SUBSTANTIAL contribution to the KILLING OF OTHERS...

Notice how you specifically had to mention 'child'. Its because you already understand theres a difference between children and adults. Theres a reason why a child isnt able to go around buying guns and an adult can.
Also, you do realise I did not say shes innocent, right? I said, and I quote "shes not killing people". Not "shes guiltless of all crime".

 

[RogerZero]

Notice how you specifically had to mention 'child'. Its because you already understand theres a difference between children and adults. Theres a reason why a child isnt able to go around buying guns and an adult can.
Also, you do realise I did not say shes innocent, right? I said, and I quote "shes not killing people". Not "shes guiltless of all crime".

You read that a tad shallow, I used a child as an example because Kiku puts them into a state much like a child, they're newborn vampires with no ability to control themselves or their actions (detective case used as an example), kiku leaves most of her newly created underlings in a state that could be considered similar to leaving a mentally ill child with a machinegun unsupervised. I never said you were implying shes directly killed anyone, I said in shes complicit in the killing, which is still murdering people in the eyes of the law. Its a capital offense or whats known as "felony murder". The offense still warrants the death penalty because someone died in the commission of a felony, I'm coming at this from a legal frame of reference, rather than some moralistic one.

 

[DLRevan]

"Heavier social commentary"? There's no need to peacock about how you're supposedly a more astute person for not disliking the arc. I'm not even sure if there was any "social commentary" in this arc, compared to the others.

There is definitely a need. Ultimately, whether you understand an author's motives and the plot contributes to enjoyment of a medium. Stories come in all sorts of genres, serving different tastes and preferences. If you don't understand, don't notice or don't care about the elements of the story that serve to make a given story a part of it's chosen genre, then there's no way to like it, at least as the author fully intended.

And as long as that's happening, it's going to be unfair to criticize a piece of writing. I won't ever believe "I don't understand" to be valid criticism. A problem which is especially bad these days when access to myriad entertainment is so easy (literally a free pirated manga on a website), and consumers expect all content to be catered to them.

And this manga has had social commentary since the first chapter. It's in everything, and no character introduced so far has not added to it. Character introductions in particular has had some additional meaning this arc too. Every character introduced the past few dozen chapters is a remnant of Kiku's influence. The final chapter indicates that Mahiru became the way he was because of her too. And how exactly? Just a few words to a small kid. That is significant, because it confirms that her larger-than-life influence for all of those people came down to probably only a few small gestures and words, that actually could have come from any ordinary person. That's already commentary. Of course, there's more, especially since Kou is still the MC and he has some issues from this too. But I'm not going to start summarizing the whole arc in words, there's a reason this manga is so good in visual form. There is no one scene or line of dialogue that encompasses each point the author is making.

 

[Alcion]

You read that a tad shallow, I used a child as an example because Kiku puts them into a state much like a child, they're newborn vampires with no ability to control themselves or their actions (detective case used as an example), kiku leaves most of her newly created underlings in a state that could be considered similar to leaving a mentally ill child with a machinegun unsupervised. I never said you were implying shes directly killed anyone, I said in shes complicit in the killing, which is still murdering people in the eyes of the law. Its a capital offense or whats known as "felony murder". The offense still warrants the death penalty because someone died in the commission of a felony, I'm coming at this from a legal frame of reference, rather than some moralistic one.

You're making assumptions to support your case. A newborn vampire, to take your term, is not the same as a child. Physically, it would be more akin to puberty, in that their body is very different from what they were used to. Mentally, it would be akin to shock, again in that their body is very different and they have yet to adjust. They are not a child; they retain all their knowledge and memories of their life up to that time, which is many years. Calling them mentally ill children with a machinegun is a massive stretch.
As for being complicit in killing, you could make that case, but it would not be a clear cut done and shut case. Your case rests upon saying that as the one turning them into vampires, she is directly responsible for them as if she were the parent to a child, but no child is born with an adult's memories and knowledge. You would argue that she is still fully responsible for their actions at that point, but I would argue she is not. She can, and did, influence them, but that is tenuous. A bartender influenced a person who causes a DUI in the act of giving them drinks, but you would not say the bartender is responsible for the accident in most cases.

 

[Billzilla2000]

She's been influencing Mahiru since he was a small child, and he's still not an adult - she brought him into this and was directly, undeniably, objectively - at least partially responsible for his suicide now. There's nothing in the story to support that he would have killed himself had it not been for her influence. Compare that to the many other vampires she created that are still around and functioning. The contrast with what she did with/to Mahiru vs. all the others she summarily left to their own devices is a distinction Kotoyama is clearly making here.

 

[Billzilla2000]

There is definitely a need. Ultimately, whether you understand an author's motives and the plot contributes to enjoyment of a medium. Stories come in all sorts of genres, serving different tastes and preferences. If you don't understand, don't notice or don't care about the elements of the story that serve to make a given story a part of it's chosen genre, then there's no way to like it, at least as the author fully intended.

And as long as that's happening, it's going to be unfair to criticize a piece of writing. I won't ever believe "I don't understand" to be valid criticism. A problem which is especially bad these days when access to myriad entertainment is so easy (literally a free pirated manga on a website), and consumers expect all content to be catered to them.

I agree with everything here (especially Kiku's culpability re: Mahiru's development and final choices) except for the part where you say criticism without full author intent/comprehension is 'unfair'... Less relevant maybe, or arguably invalid, but unfair? A story that is obfuscates or complicates, intentionally or not, major plot events through flashback insertion the way Kotoyama does, could be said to be needlessly convoluted, at the very least.

But your point about consumers expecting stories to pander to their short attention span mentality is also valid and IME particularly relevant in this era.

 

[Kazuraki]

Im glad that annoying thot died, rest in piss

 

[noyeka]

So Kiku groomed Mahiru as a child, lead him to commit suicide with her... and people are okay with this?
He's still a teenager. He's hormone-filled, emotional, in his rebellious phase, and haven't had enough life experiences or enough brain development to think properly. Kiku literally manipulated a child to get what she wanted (death) and it's treated as a good thing?

Reminder that she caused a lot of untold suffering with her selfish and neglectful actions, and she didn't suffer for any of her crimes. I guess the moral of the story is that it's okay to ruin people's lives as long as you get what you want.

 

[Guyincognitus]

Murderers arnt murderers, its their parent's fault.
Murderers' parents arnt murderers, its their parent's fault.
Murderers' parents' parent arnt murderers, its their parent's fault.
[...]

You see how this is absurd. Kiku might have contributed to creating situations where murders happen, but unless you count the simple fact that vampires are 'undead' (which in this series may not even be the case), shes not killing people.

Lmao what? If parents are injecting their kids with psycho juice yeah it is absolutely their fault if they murder people.

 

[Alcion]

Lmao what? If parents are injecting their kids with psycho juice yeah it is absolutely their fault if they murder people.

Nah, its the parent's parent's fault for raising the parent as psycho juice injecting parent.
No wait, its the parent's parent's parent's fault for raising the parent's parent as psycho juice injecting parents parent.
Hold on a sec, its the parent's parent's parent's parent's parent's fault...

 

[Guyincognitus]

Nah, its the parent's parent's fault for raising the parent as psycho juice injecting parent.
No wait, its the parent's parent's parent's fault for raising the parent's parent as psycho juice injecting parents parent.
Hold on a sec, its the parent's parent's parent's parent's parent's fault...

If it's a series of parents injecting people with psycho juice who then abandon all responsibility to ensure that their psycho-juiced-up spawn don't immediately go insane and/or murder people then yes they have all done something very wrong.

 

[Alcion]

If it's a series of parents injecting people with psycho juice who then abandon all responsibility to ensure that their psycho-juiced-up spawn don't immediately go insane and/or murder people then yes they have all done something very wrong.

You're already making my point. You initially said the child is not at fault, the parent is, if the parent is injecting their kids with psycho juice. You're now saying the parents are still at fault even if they are inject their kids with psycho juice, even though they themselves are the kids of parents injecting psycho juice in them. So which is it? Are kids at fault for their actions or not if they were injected with psycho juice?
These are all your own words.

 

[Guyincognitus]

You initially said the child is not at fault

I'm gonna stop you right there because, no, I didn't say that. I said that the parent (Kiku) is at fault, which she is. I never said she was exclusively to blame but she is certainly mostly to blame. Prosecutors don't stop with the person who pulled the trigger, they often go after everyone with significant involvement leading up to the crime and after the fact up to and including culpable negligence all of which your awful parenting analogy fails to consider. Hell, drug dealers can be charged with felony murder if someone they sold to overdoses.

As we speak parents of a school shooter are being charged for providing their troubled teen with a gun and doing nothing when his threats of violence surfaced and that case is far grayer than this situation. What Kiku has done as we saw a couple of times over was the very definition of gross negligence. She provided both the proverbial gun and the psychotic mental disorder fully knowing the harm it could cause and then did nothing. And then she did it again and again.

It's true that the guys Kiku went after never should have sipped her kool-aid but, frankly, she's far more at fault than the people who she manipulated into having their minds altered into a state primed for violence which they wouldn't have committed otherwise. Especially considering they made the deal under the false pretense that Kiku would still be around and likely not aware of the full extent of what they were signing up for.

In conclusion, I hope Kiku is and utter piece of shit and I hope she's burning in hell.

 

[DjAlexDubCheck]

Kiku is trash, kinda ruined him as a kid from the start. Good riddance 👏

So did his parents