Imasara desu ga, Osananajimi wo Suki ni Natte Shimaimashita - Vol. 1 Ch. 12.5 - Seki Nadeko, Someone Who Forges Her Own Path

[mug3n]

I think most people like me forgot about this girl. God I hope she doesn't come back & add more fuel to the already burning dumpster fire but I expect Maruto sensei to do it. Thanks for the translations.

No. Let her in. Kick the food down and set the kitchen on fire.

 

[story645]

Tho I feel like she could easily get a bf anyways unless she’s meant to be a bit if a Jirai kei/Menhera from

Spoiler: chapter 18

Yuu mentions she does in chapter 18.

Also I love this girl's chaotic energy - goes all in but backs down when Yuu gives her a solid no.

Spoiler: post chapter 22(ish)

Eta: which of course parallels. I'm thinking Seki's way more sensible than Aya for backing away from a guy she believed was into someone else. I take Kan's philosophy as "steal guys who want to be stolen" (and yes I'm half expecting the next chapter to contradict this take).

 

[beThereShortly]

Oh I remember you... Man it feels like a million years ago.

 

[NerimaShinjuku]

The chapter 12 translator said they chose to read her name as “Kan” instead of “Seki” because there were no furigana to help read the kanji. This translator went with Seki. Japanese name kanji seem impossible. No wonder there are so many jokes about misreading people’s names.

 

[Trevoga]

gotta be saying something that I couldn't remember what manga this was until the credits page

 

[Friendly-Sentence710]

I can fix her.

 

[GennArc]

I'm thinking Seki's way more sensible than Aya for backing away from a guy she believed was into someone else.

I'm not sure how you read this chapter and still say this. Compare the way they talk in chapter 12 vs chapter 22+23.

Seki/Kan says him having a girlfriend would make her want to pursue him even more, but once we see them talking, there's an obvious disinterest and rejection from Yuu.

Spoiler: Spoiler from the future

When Yami talks to Yuu in 22 in a rather playful/teasing way, he responds accordingly and ends up saying she helped him cheer up. And then she remembers him and is eager to talk when they meet again in 23 before even learning about his private stuff (and don't forget how she says in 22 that she doesn't even talk to anyone at school and pushes away those around her).
There is no chemistry in the first case and there is a clear one in the second.

 

[story645]

I'm not sure how you read this chapter and still say this. Compare the way they talk in chapter 12 vs chapter 22+23.

b/c, as we've discussed endlessly,

Spoiler: for those who are reading this linearly

I think it was a sore point that fed into Aya's insecurity throughout their relationship. I could be misremembering but pretty sure that at no point in her narrative does she think that Yuu is in love with her. (Just to avoid argument, I don't think this necessarily means that he didn't/doesn't love her, just that I didn't get that from her POV).

Seki/Kan says him having a girlfriend would make her want to pursue him even more, but once we see them talking, there's an obvious disinterest and rejection from Yuu.

To me, Seki reads as secure edgy. Yeah she says it would make her want to pursue him more, but she actually backs out b/c she feels he's being serious when he says no. That's what I mean by "steal who want to be stolen". If she was actually serious about the stealing, him saying he was in love with someone else would be a "challenge accepted" moment to pursue him even harder. ETA: Which yes, even odds that I'm wrong and next Seki chapter she does exactly that.

There is no chemistry in the first case and there is a clear one in the second.

Ehh, I see this as the author trying to make a parallel about Yuu's resolve (yay character growth) and not chemistry. To me both are girls he's friendly with ('cause I think Yuu mentions that they've hung out before) who tried to initiate a relationship with him and the biggest difference in the two scenarios is that Yuu's decided to not go down the "dating someone else to move on" route again. ETA: We're giving all the context (chemistry) with Aya before she initiates b/c the reader is supposed to care about that relationship and understand why Yuu went for it, while the reader emphatically doesn't have to care about Seki.

 

[GennArc]

To me, Seki reads kinda like the girl Aya pretended to be, edgy but a lot more secure. Yeah she says it would make her want to pursue him more, but she actually backs out b/c she feels he's being serious when he says no.

She backs out because he makes it clear he is not interested. It's not just him saying he has someone he likes, his whole attitude is saying he doesn't care. Romance is about enjoying each other's company, isn't it?

Spoiler: Surely no one is reading this before reading main chapters, but just in case

Ehh, I see this as the author trying to make a parallel about Yuu's resolve (yay character growth) and not chemistry.

It's frustrating how you refuse to look at what is actually happening between characters and keep trying to find some parallels and other meta stuff instead. I don't mind reading into narrative techniques, but not at the cost of ignoring the actual contents. This is no Ulysses, where reading between the lines is more important than reading the lines themselves, this is simply a romance manga. What characters think, what they say, how they converse is important. More important than parallels, leitmotifs and morals of the story.

 

[story645]

Spoiler: for the people who come to this after the manga is finished b/c it's after chapter 12

She backs out because he makes it clear he is not interested. It's not just him saying he has someone he likes, his whole attitude is saying he doesn't care.

Yes, this is the resolve I was talking about. In chapter 22 he is fully in the depths of "it's hopeless" and therefore goes along with Aya. A year and a relationship later, when Seki makes a move he's not in the depths of "it's hopeless" and decides that he doesn't wanna just go along.

Romance is about enjoying each other's company, isn't it?

In chapter 12, Seki mentions that they've gone on a date and were messaging each other, and that his "cold shoulder" is new. Yuu also mentions how he's gotten to know her, which implies that they've talked to each other some.

Aya and Yuu before they go to the hotel with each other is all of two interactions:

• chapter 22 - they're talking to each other and he gets slightly flustered by her teasing him that he's failed the exam, where they dynamics are paralleled pretty closely by chapter 33 where her and Hikari talk and she then pranks Hikari. Like yeah I think the author is being pretty intentional here with the parallels given it's the same location and has them both sitting down on the grand (so similar composition). Hikari's smile at the end of 34 seems a direct mirror of Yuu's at the end of 22.
• chapter 23 - it's been months, he mopes about Hikari at the diner, doesn't deny that he's in love with her when Aya flags it the second time, and Aya offers that they go to a hotel. His whole attitude before the invite is sad dejected boy.

I dunno, what about 22 and 23 is telling you that Yuu enjoys Aya's company more than Seki's? He's talked to both girls, and gone out to places (date, diner) with both of them.

ETA: Unless it's just that he said yes to going to the hotel w/ Aya, but that first time he's miserable and after he doesn't bother to get her number and then she takes the initiative and he goes w/ her in 25? b/c he's horny. It's only after they've had sex that they try and do the relationship thing - which it's his first and he's a good guy so he probably thinks its the right thing to do and also why not? Yeah, to me that doesn't scream that he liked Aya more than Seki before they initiated the relationship.

It's frustrating how you refuse to look at what is actually happening between characters and keep trying to find some parallels and other meta stuff instead.

I just think that what's actually happening fits nicely into the author saying on social media that they're aiming for parallels. Eta: Also that cowardice/resolve really really really seems to be a big important theme in this manga.

 

[GennArc]

Spoiler: Spoiler

Yes, this is the resolve I was talking about.

What resolve when he just doesn't care?

In chapter 12, Seki mentions that they've gone on a date and were messaging each other, and that his "cold shoulder" is new.

And which is obviously half made-up, because she also says that he stopped inviting her to dates, even though it's obvious he never invited her and she is just being pushy with her sadfishing.

chapter 22 - they're talking to each other and he gets slightly flustered by her teasing him that he's failed the exam, where they dynamics are paralleled pretty closely by chapter 33

No, they are not paralleled at all. The whole situation happens in the same place, but their interactions couldn't be any further.

I dunno, what about 22 and 23 is telling you that Yuu enjoys Aya's company more than Seki's?

The way he talks, including asking questions about her, the way he responds to her teasing, gets flustered and reacts emotionally to her words (e.g. asking if she isn't supposed to support him), the way he thanks her for cheering him up, the way he opens up in 23. Should I be listing more or is that sufficient?

 

[story645]

Spoiler: more of me and Genn fighting about ships

What resolve when he just doesn't care?

And which is obviously half made-up, because she also says that he stopped inviting her to dates, even though it's obvious he never invited her and she is just being pushy with her sadfishing.

What's with the obviously half made up? I thought we weren't supposed to deny canon to suit our needs. There's legit nothing in their interaction pointing towards him disliking Seki as a person, he apologizes for making her sad, and is concerned enough about her to walk her back to the station, which means willingly spending time he doesn't have to with the person who just showed up on his door. I agree he's not romantically interested in her, we're just arguing b/c I also don't think he was crushing on Aya b/f they slept together.

No, they are not paralleled at all. The whole situation happens in the same place, but their interactions couldn't be any further.

Hikari asks Aya more questions about why she's there than Yuu did, has mostly the same flustered/defensive reactions as Yuu when Aya is being a jerk to her, Aya is teasing/being a jerk to Hikariin the same ways she was to Yuu, Hikari tells Aya about herself, and Aya is the flustered one when Hikari leaves. To me it's similar Aya being a grouch and her walls coming down a bit b/c of Hikari/Yuu and if anything the Aya/Hikari meeting was more emotionally impactful.

The way he talks, including asking questions about her,

She starts talking to him b/c he's sad, then he asks her about the school he just applied to, and then why she's sitting there (b/c it's strange for a teenage girl to be sitting alone on the floor outside school) and that's it. He literally doesn't ask anything else about her, I think maybe for the entirety of their relationship.

the way he responds to her teasing, gets flustered and reacts emotionally to her words (e.g. asking if she isn't supposed to support him),

She's being kind of a jerk to someone she just met and half of what you read as flustered I read as defensive, and again Hikari makes very similar expressions when Aya is a jerk to her.

the way he thanks her for cheering him up,

B/c he's not a jerk and she spent time talking to him and listening.

the way he opens up in 23.

He's sad about Hikari and she's encouraging him to talk. Have you never been an ear to an almost stranger when they're sad?

And also this is basically a monologue on all the ways Hikari is impossible, which is my point - he says yes to Aya largely b/c he thinks Hikari is impossible and Aya is there offering to comfort him. Then at the hotel in 24, it's even more of an enumeration on the ways in which Hikari is out of his league and never gonna happen. By the time he's turning down Seki, Hikari has made some moves that he admits he's been kinda picking up on and he's had a whole relationship go south and a year to grow up.

Which like honestly, my take means Yuu has become a little bit less of a coward. I think that's supposed to be a good thing?

 

[GennArc]

Spoiler

What's with the obviously half made up? I thought we weren't supposed to deny canon to suit our needs.

We were not, but thankfully, there is enough evidence in the story.

Seki: "It's just that lately, Senpai... you haven't been replying to me at all..."
Yuu: "Well, uh, it's just... I've been kinda busy lately, you know?"

Seki: "Plus, you haven't asked me on a date... like, at all lately..."
Yuu: "Uh, yeah... but that was because you were the one who asked me out that one time..."

Wait, hold up! So they went on one date that she invited him on, and now she's acting like his girlfriend!?

Like I said, she sorta made up stuff about dates (implying he did invite her before) to invoke pity/sympathy. And from the first excerpt you can see that she was the one messaging him, with him replying at first but then stopping at some point.

There's legit nothing in their interaction pointing towards him disliking Seki as a person

Where did I say he dislikes her as a person? I am saying he is not interested.

I agree he's not romantically interested in her

It's not just lack of romantic interest, he doesn't look that interested in communicating with her at all. And leaving her on read (from this chapter) is just another indicator of that. And no, walking her home isn't interest, because she came uninvited to his house and was being a pain in the ass, all he is doing is showing her the door in a courteous way.

Hikari asks Aya more questions

Look, in one case we have Yami teasing and Yuu getting flustered. In the other case we have Hikari asking endless questions and Yami being passive-agressive (and she is not teasing at all, unlike what you suggest), trying to push her off. Like an enthusiastic dog trying to get an annoyed cat to play with it.
Their intentions are different, their moods are different, their reactions are different, even the side initiating the conversation is different. I get it, since the setting is purposefully the same, you're trying to see their interactions as similar too, but it just doesn't work because they were set up for different purposes.

He literally doesn't ask anything else about her

Except a small detail - her name, which he wouldn't ask if he was disinterested.

She's being kind of a jerk to someone she just met and half of what you read as flustered I read as defensive

He reacted the same way he did when they were in relationship.
And this is less important, but he even mirrors Yami's gesture in their conversation:

Spoiler

and next page

Although maybe it's just me.

B/c he's not a jerk and she spent time talking to him and listening.

The important part is that she did cheer him up.
And we're still comparing his conversations with Yami and with Seki, right? Because in the latter all he did was softly trying to push her away, the only emotional reaction being his firm rejection.

Have you never been an ear to an almost stranger when they're sad?

I would never tell a stranger I don't care about any details of my private life.

 

[story645]

Spoiler

but it just doesn't work because they were set up for different purposes.

Aya and Hikari end up the bestest of friends at the end of their interaction so if anything I feel that would strengthen your argument.

Except a small detail - her name, which he wouldn't ask if he was disinterested.

She offers up her name as a response to an umm when he's leaving. Again I'd consider this baseline politeness to the person who acted as a sounding board. But also yeah he could be somewhat curious about the stranger who acted as his sounding board, and not be curious in the same way about his kohai who is not mysterious.

He's not interested enough to ask for her number, even after they go to the hotel, which Aya notices and makes all sorts of reasons/excuses for.

And we're still comparing his conversations with Yami and with Seki, right? Because in the latter all he did was softly trying to push her away, the only emotional reaction being his firm rejection.

No actually, we're only comparing him accepting going to the hotel w/ Aya to him turning down Seki.

We don't see any of his interactions w/ Seki before then (yet, maybe we will), but the manga establishes some level of friendliness before then & that the cold shoulder is new, which Yuu does not deny. He also apologizes for making her sad, which indicates that he cares that he's making her sad. The other newer event happening in the manga around this time is Hikari's proactive interest in Yuu.

I think the actual point of comparison will be if we get a Yuu rejecting Aya scene, though that of course would be complicated by their history.

 

[GennArc]

Spoiler

She offers up her name as a response to an umm when he's leaving. Again I'd consider this baseline politeness to the person who acted as a sounding board.

He could just say thank you and be done with it, which would be quite polite too.

He's not interested enough to ask for her number

Not the point I am trying to make. I am talking about whether they enjoy talking or not really. But since you keep bringing up cowardice, would he even ask for her number if he was already very interested in her romantically, when he is such a coward in your own words?

No actually, we're only comparing him accepting going to the hotel w/ Aya to him turning down Seki.

In this whole conversation I haven't brought up the hotel even once. Because it doesn't matter here (although I'd say them becoming a couple afterwards matters). You asked

I dunno, what about 22 and 23 is telling you that Yuu enjoys Aya's company more than Seki's?

and I gave you some evidence. It's not about whether he wanted to have sex with Yami and Seki or not, it's about whether he enjoyed their companies or not particularly.

We don't see any of his interactions w/ Seki before

But we see the one in the present and it's not going very well, isn't it?

 

[story645]

Spoiler

He could just say thank you and be done with it, which would be quite polite too.

Which is basically what he did. Again, unless the novel is different, he didn't ask for her name, just said umm. Like honestly not even clear if the umm was intended as a "what's your name?" or if he just went along with it.

But since you keep bringing up cowardice, would he even ask for her number if he was already very interested in her romantically, when he is such a coward in your own words?

After they left the hotel that she invited him to? Absolutely b/c a girl inviting you to a hotel is in the almost 100% she's into you range. And she's a stranger so there's nothing to lose by asking - everything that makes it scary to make a move on Hikari just isn't present here.

I figured he's not interested in Aya romantically b/c he's been telling her about Hikari from the start and at no point gets even the least but evasive. When they start dating, it looks like he stops and Aya's the one who initiates conversations about Hikari. Going by the convo at the manga cafe, he's also less open/enumerative about it once they start dating.

It's not about whether he wanted to have sex with Yami and Seki or not, it's about whether he enjoyed their companies or not particularly.

We do not have enough information to say that Seki's previous interactions made less of a positive impact on Yuu than the 2 conversations, mostly about him, that he had w/ Aya before agreeing to sleep with her.

All the reader knows so far is that Seki and Yuu were on good enough terms to text, that the cold shoulder is new to her, and that he cares enough about her feelings for apologize for making her sad (& not just for rejecting her). We also know that despite being in different grades, Yuu's aware that Seki has a new boyfriend and thinks it's worth telling Hikari. And that this caused Hikari to ask if she was her ex b/c that's not a piece of information folks tend to care about, especially enough to share, unless there's some sort of relationship with the person.

 

[GennArc]

Spoiler

Again, unless the novel is different, he didn't ask for her name, just said umm. Like honestly not even clear if the umm was intended as a "what's your name?" or if he just went along with it.

Are we nitpicking now? It's crystal clear that the umm at the end of an unfinished sentence is meant to be asking for a name.

And she's a stranger so there's nothing to lose by asking

That's a very weird kind of cowardice if you ask me. Where you can ask random girls for their numbers, and the whole cowardice is about not being able to confess to a girl you like who you know you have no chance with.

We do not have enough information to say that Seki's previous interactions made less of a positive impact on Yuu than the 2 conversations

So your idea is that he could've enjoyed talking to her but then stopped enjoying it or what? Did she become less of an interesting person to him?
I'm not sure why you're so adamant about it. I think even the manga gives a pretty clear picture.
She invited him out once, he agreed but didn't really feel it. Afterwards she started pestering him with messages and questions, he replied out of obligation at first but then stopped, either because she got too pushy or because he just stopped bothering. Her coming to his house is like a cherry on top.

 

[story645]

Spoiler

Where you can ask random
girls for their numbers, and the whole cowardice is about not being able to confess to a girl you like who you know you have no chance with.

in the latest chapter Yuu's reason for not asking are grounded in the stakes. He's afraid of losing Hikari. He loses Aya if he doesn't get her number b/c she's a stranger.

Which Yuu (and Aya) seeing strangers as lower stakes also jives with why they're far more open with each other before they start dating than after.

he could've enjoyed talking to her but then stopped enjoying it or what? Did she become less of an interesting person to him?

Given the timeline, seems like Hikari started persuing him. Given the comments in this chapter, he was specifically shutting down her flirting. Which is what I'm on about - that this time he didn't just go w/ the flow b/c a girl offered.

 

[GennArc]

Spoiler

in the latest chapter Yuu's reason for not asking are grounded in the stakes

It's not cowardice then?

Given the timeline, seems like Hikari started persuing him. Given the comments in this chapter, he was specifically shutting down her flirting. Which is what I'm on about - that this time he didn't just go w/ the flow b/c a girl offered.

So he intentionally pretends to no longer be interested in talking to Seki because he wants to turn her down for Hikari?

 

[story645]

Spoiler

It's not cowardice then?

The reasons can be valid and it still be cowardly to not face his fears and go for what he really wants.

So he intentionally pretends to no longer be interested in talking to Seki because he wants to turn her down for Hikari?

I think we're having an exceedingly silly conversation b/c the point of comparison for Yuu/Aya and Yuu/Seki would be when Yuu and Seki first met, which is information we don't have (yet?).

I'm reading the limited information we have as he likes her well enough as a person - she has his number, he agreed to go on a date (all the girls in this manga are the ones initiating dates w/ him), the leaving on read is recent, he feels bad about making her sad, he tells Hikari about her new boo - but that he isn't interested in dating her (or encouraging her) just b/c she wants to date him.