Law Likely To Get Passed In Texas That Bans Explicit Images Of Underage Looking Drawings

[Greenfrost]

So, I got this from Youtube. The bill apparently says drawings that look under the age of 18, which when it comes to art, is extremely subjective. Also, even owning the stuff would be illegal, so you could get arrested for something you bought legally. And, no this would not just be about the kiddie hentai, since some of us, like myself, own regular manga and anime that just have scenes with images of naked underage characters. Revealing clothing and underwear may count, too. I don't remember. Luckily, though, the Youtuber does have a point in which the law likely infringes on free speech. Possibly. He says it does, however obscene content is not covered. What counts as obscene? Even members of the supreme court have admitted they don't know and just wing it. So, we thought the DMCA's were bad. This is way worse.

 

[Angry_Panda]

Eyerolling so hard. I'm not even going to watch the click bait video. Also, I'm not in Texas.

The law in question. Which makes it a crime if an individual

knowingly possesses, accesses with intent to view, or promotes obscene visual material containing a depiction that appears to be of a child younger than 18 years of age engaging in activities described by Section 43.21(a)(1)(B), regardless of whether the depiction is an image of an actual child, a cartoon or animation, or an image created using an artificial intelligence application or other computer software.

From the Section referenced, said material would be something that

depicts or describes:
(i) patently offensive representations or descriptions of ultimate sexual acts, normal or perverted, actual or simulated, including sexual intercourse, sodomy, and sexual bestiality; or
(ii) patently offensive representations or descriptions of masturbation, excretory functions, sadism, masochism, lewd exhibition of the genitals, the male or female genitals in a state of sexual stimulation or arousal, covered male genitals in a discernibly turgid state or a device designed and marketed as useful primarily for stimulation of the human genital organs[.]

Not included: panty shots, bra shots. Also, note that, from a bit later in 43.21(a),

(4) “Patently offensive” means so offensive on its face as to affront current community standards of decency.

So I would think there's a fair bit of space to argue just under the 'patently offensive' banner.

Also note that the cops can't just grab your phone or break down your door and demand to see what you've been looking at - they're going to need a warrant. So there's going to have to be some reason to try and enforce this law to start with. Admittedly, if I owned a bookstore, there would probably be some material I might be more concerned about carrying if this law takes effect, but I'm not super concerned about my personal collection.

Finally, consider the number of characters who are at least 18 in manga/anime who are drawn exactly like characters under 18. Komi-san and her mother come to mind - literally the same character design with different haircuts. If all the characters look to be the same age, and some are certainly over 18 and some are certainly under, this entire exercise becomes so impossibly subjective that it's going to bog down in appeals going back and forth. Not sure that results in a favorable outcome, but there is the broader question of whether the courts really want to be in the business of adjudicating how old all the characters look. I suspect they don't.

 

[Greenfrost]

Eyerolling so hard. I'm not even going to watch the click bait video. Also, I'm not in Texas.

The law in question. Which makes it a crime if an individual

From the Section referenced, said material would be something that

Not included: panty shots, bra shots. Also, note that, from a bit later in 43.21(a),

So I would think there's a fair bit of space to argue just under the 'patently offensive' banner.

Also note that the cops can't just grab your phone or break down your door and demand to see what you've been looking at - they're going to need a warrant. So there's going to have to be some reason to try and enforce this law to start with. Admittedly, if I owned a bookstore, there would probably be some material I might be more concerned about carrying if this law takes effect, but I'm not super concerned about my personal collection.

Finally, consider the number of characters who are at least 18 in manga/anime who are drawn exactly like characters under 18. Komi-san and her mother come to mind - literally the same character design with different haircuts. If all the characters look to be the same age, and some are certainly over 18 and some are certainly under, this entire exercise becomes so impossibly subjective that it's going to bog down in appeals going back and forth. Not sure that results in a favorable outcome, but there is the broader question of whether the courts really want to be in the business of adjudicating how old all the characters look. I suspect they don't.

Hmm, so it doesn't go so far to affect underwear imagery. It's possible the guy mentioned that. I will say I'm still worried though. If this gains popularity, and more people start talking about it, it could lead to more legislation.

I'm not in Texas either, but I'm worried it could move states too.

 

[Manko-sensei]

Ah, that promising land, yes. Well, ill-defined laws like that ultimately lead to banning everything that remotely looks like that, USA is pretty famous for having the longest list of banned books (at least in Western countries). It's not the first nor last time they talk about adding a law about regarding fictional minors, but as always it's not something you can even decide unless they make you a top politician.
On a different note, they should stop using Oreimo for everything, in fact, let it die.

 

[Angry_Panda]

I'm not in Texas either, but I'm worried it could move states too.

It will, but it's also going to have some overzealous district attorney try and nail somebody for having a copy of High School DxD or something similar, and end up making an ass out of themselves when the judge points out that 'those girls don't look underage'. I really don't think a bunch of DAs are going to end up using this on edge cases - they'll get the occasional loli-porn collector, and leave the high school ecchi alone.

USA is pretty famous for having the longest list of banned books (at least in Western countries).

Except none of those books are, strictly speaking, 'banned'. You can still possess and purchase them, it's just that some jurisdictions don't want them in libraries. Unlike a lot of countries, there is very little actual prohibitive censorship in the US - free speech has been stretched to cover a lot of ground that isn't covered in other countries.

 

[Manko-sensei]

Except none of those books are, strictly speaking, 'banned'. You can still possess and purchase them, it's just that some jurisdictions don't want them in libraries. Unlike a lot of countries, there is very little actual prohibitive censorship in the US - free speech has been stretched to cover a lot of ground that isn't covered in other countries.

I don't know which countries are you comparing it but regarding not allowing them in libraries is already a form of ban/censorship as many titles no longer are printed or on stock, it makes harder for people to find that they even exist or getting to read them in the first place, not to mention people who cannot afford them. But well, returning to mangoes, you don't need an explicit law to stop something, society does, a clearly example was in 2006 when Seven Seas licenced Kodomo no Jikan and even printed the first volume but they made the publisher cancel the series altogether.

 

[Angry_Panda]

I don't know which countries are you comparing it but regarding not allowing them in libraries is already a form of ban/censorship as many titles no longer are printed or on stock, it makes harder for people to find that they even exist or getting to read them in the first place, not to mention people who cannot afford them. But well, returning to mangoes, you don't need an explicit law to stop something, society does, a clearly example was in 2006 when Seven Seas licenced Kodomo no Jikan and even printed the first volume but they made the publisher cancel the series altogether.

Yes, it's definitely censorship, and it does impair access to a work, but that's very different from an outright ban on a work. I will point out that Iowa (where I live) and a number of other states have passed laws that prohibit some content from school or public libraries, or restrict access to that content by minors without parental consent, but so far as I'm aware there has been no attempt to legally curtail sales of that content in businesses. It reduces the reach of the content, but it doesn't entirely prevent it. (If I recall correctly, there were several bookstores who stocked up on some of the more prominent works and offered them to students at reduced prices to counter the action.)

The Seven Seas example appears to have been an entirely internal decision - it was certainly swayed by opinion of both the general public and the bookstores who would be called on to stock and sell the work, but while that may be an external force causing the decision, it is in no way a legal prohibition against the work that I would consider a 'ban'.

(I do want to be a bit careful not to veer into an overtly political discussion here - I have my opinions on what's happening with these laws, and the original topic and some of this offshoot clearly has an impact on the community, but I also appreciate MD's not being a forum for political debate and not being interested in becoming such a forum.)

 

[BestBoy]

I believe there's another politician trying (and failing) to get the obscenity laws changed as well so they can ban porn. Mike Lee and Mary Miller introduced that Interstate Obscenity Definition Act which would get rid of the Supreme Court 3 part test for obscenity.

I don't think it'll go anywhere, but stranger things have happened this year already.

Texas did also just remove affirmative defense for educational, medical, psychological, psychiatric and legislative purpose when showing material to children that could be considered "obscene or harmful."

Meaning, you were protected from criminal charges if you could prove the materials were for one of those reasons. Now you're not.

 

[sterven]

So, I got this from Youtube. The bill apparently says drawings that look under the age of 18, which when it comes to art, is extremely subjective. Also, even owning the stuff would be illegal, so you could get arrested for something you bought legally. And, no this would not just be about the kiddie hentai, since some of us, like myself, own regular manga and anime that just have scenes with images of naked underage characters. Revealing clothing and underwear may count, too. I don't remember. Luckily, though, the Youtuber does have a point in which the law likely infringes on free speech. Possibly. He says it does, however obscene content is not covered. What counts as obscene? Even members of the supreme court have admitted they don't know and just wing it. So, we thought the DMCA's were bad. This is way worse.

I live in Texas and all I can and will say is that if they want to come into my home to take my manga from my shelves then they best come armed didn't buy my AR and 12 gauge + my Kimber Custom II 1911 45acp for nothin

 

[BestBoy]

come into my home to take my manga

Known gooner Ted "Pissboy" Cruz will be right there beside you.

 

[sterven]

Known gooner Ted "Pissboy" Cruz will be right there beside you.

should I take that as an insult or something else im genuinely confused

 

[Angry_Panda]

Known gooner Ted "Pissboy" Cruz will be right there beside you.

Has he still got the beard? Because that really didn't help anything.

 

[OldVice]

AR and 12 gauge + my Kimber Custom II 1911 45acp

Once upon a time, I was able to own these things as well (they haven't come after my shotgun...... yet).

 

[sterven]

Once upon a time, I was able to own these things as well (they haven't come after my shotgun...... yet).

I would never willingly relinquish my firearms its my constitutional right

 

[77BLc9JwJGpLVARkamJx]

uohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[BestBoy]

insult

lol no, not towards you. I just like to make fun of Ted Cruz.

beard

Yes, he does...

 

[panzerkampfwagyu]

How likely that the guy that made that law has actual cp in his possession?
There is that pattern, after all.

 

[manadrop]

Any one who attempts to infringe on the creative expression of the people should be.... erm, given a strong talking to. But seriously, like all these dumb laws, it's all a very serious slippery slope. The real deal's one thing, but lines and letters on a paper? Nah, now you're just being silly.

 

[Tscheddov]

I would never willingly relinquish my firearms its my constitutional right

i envy you for this right. I had to jump through countless loops to get my guns and i still have to jump constantly to be allowed to keep them . . .

where's your profile pic from ? looks interesting

 

[sterven]

i envy you for this right. I had to jump through countless loops to get my guns and i still have to jump constantly to be allowed to keep them . . .

One of the best parts of being an American/Texan and I sure as shit don't take it for granted.

where's your profile pic from ? looks interesting

Ask and you shall receive
https://myanimelist.net/anime/11827/Kuroinu__Kedakaki_Seijo_wa_Hakudaku_ni_Somaru
Word to the wise it's a hentai so yeah it's nsfw