Mahou Shoujo × Haiboku Saiban

[leviadragon]

So... I can't tell if this is just shameless fetish material, or a deconstruction of the ridiculous standards put upon women and how failing to meet them is then taken as an excuse to treat us terribly... or both. It might actually be both.

Aspects like the peanut gallery in the court being full of sleazy old dudes making off-colour remarks during the trials feel pretty on the nose, as does a woman in a position of authority (the prosecutor) selling out other women because she has bought into these systems... but the story also does still do all of the fetishy material to some extent, so it's kind of a wash.

Also, is it me or are they hinting at a relationship between the public defender magical girl and the former guy magical girl? Cuz I'd be down, that's a fun dynamic.

 

[sympathiam]

Did they just do a nazi salute?

 

[Trig_Zero]

absolutely opposite of morality
dont use brain to read this
any and all things are shameless and negative IQ,
the only thing thats somewhat decent to look at, are the lewd and the settings
everything else is just.... so lame
but then its whoever's fault to take this seriously

 

[MadRaptor]

Honestly, people can hate it, but at the same time, it does make sense.
In this world, a Magical Girl losing can end up with an entire city being erased off a map, or tons and tons of women, girls, men, and innocents being raped, hurt, and killed.
The beings who give these girls magic aren't from Earth, so they don't really care about playing nice.
"You're a hero now, if you lose, all other heroes will lose the will to fight, so your punishment will serve as a motivator to make sure all the other magical girls fight to the last breath, with all they have."

It sucks for the girls.
It really sucks, and it's horrible they get punished for losing.
When you're a hero, and you carry the world on your back, you can't afford to lose.
When men went to war, losing meant they died, their villages were taken over, their women raped and children enslaved.

How do you motivate somebody?
Make the results for losing something so horrible, you want to avoid it at all costs.

It also seems like the punishments vary.
If your punishment wasn't really seen by anyone, you're new and inexperienced, then it is scaled to that level.
If your punishment was in public though, was seen by many people, and demotivated people away from supporting the cause, then your punishment is heavier.

Yeah, this is fetish stuff.
At the same time, it is WELL THOUGHT OUT in world building.
When you ignore the eroticism of it, and take a step back to see it all from an outside point of view, you can see how "yeah, this sucks, but the logic makes sense".

 

[MadRaptor]

So... I can't tell if this is just shameless fetish material, or a deconstruction of the ridiculous standards put upon women and how failing to meet them is then taken as an excuse to treat us terribly... or both. It might actually be both.

Aspects like the peanut gallery in the court being full of sleazy old dudes making off-colour remarks during the trials feel pretty on the nose, as does a woman in a position of authority (the prosecutor) selling out other women because she has bought into these systems... but the story also does still do all of the fetishy material to some extent, so it's kind of a wash.

Also, is it me or are they hinting at a relationship between the public defender magical girl and the former guy magical girl? Cuz I'd be down, that's a fun dynamic.

Honestly, people can hate it, but at the same time, it does make sense.
In this world, a Magical Girl losing can end up with an entire city being erased off a map, or tons and tons of women, girls, men, and innocents being raped, hurt, and killed.
The beings who give these girls magic aren't from Earth, so they don't really care about playing nice.
"You're a hero now, if you lose, all other heroes will lose the will to fight, so your punishment will serve as a motivator to make sure all the other magical girls fight to the last breath, with all they have."

It sucks for the girls.
It really sucks, and it's horrible they get punished for losing.
When you're a hero, and you carry the world on your back, you can't afford to lose.
When men went to war, losing meant they died, their villages were taken over, their women raped and children enslaved.

How do you motivate somebody?
Make the results for losing something so horrible, you want to avoid it at all costs.

It also seems like the punishments vary.
If your punishment wasn't really seen by anyone, you're new and inexperienced, then it is scaled to that level.
If your punishment was in public though, was seen by many people, and demotivated people away from supporting the cause, then your punishment is heavier.

Yeah, this is fetish stuff.
At the same time, it is WELL THOUGHT OUT in world building.
When you ignore the eroticism of it, and take a step back to see it all from an outside point of view, you can see how "yeah, this sucks, but the logic makes sense".

I say this.
But women don't actually have standards on them that are all that crazy in the real world, though, the standards society expects from men are much higher. Like society expecting men to go die in war just for example.
At least, not standards that MEN apply to them.
Women are the ones putting standards on women these days, and then put insane standards on men too, though men are used to having those high standards and being expected to meet them.
Most men I know want three things from women.

1. Be average or pretty.
2. Be kind.
3. Don't be a slut.

Men do not care about.
1. A woman's salary.
2. A woman's height.
3. A woman's weight, as long as it is still within an average range.
4. What kind of makeup a woman wears.
5. How a woman dresses.
6. A woman's career.

Any other way of thinking is... delusion.
Most women who talk about the standards men have for women, have never asked a man what he wants from a woman, and have never asked a woman what she expects from a man.
Of course, neither side wants to listen to the other, and neither side seems to care that as time goes on, women are reporting far less happiness in life even compared to 40 years ago.

 

[stfuad]

The fuck? Chuds are calling this logical? Only in anime land is this logical the fuck is wrong with you? This is just horny shit, there’s nothing deeper going on.

 

[MadRaptor]

The fuck? Chuds are calling this logical? Only in anime land is this logical the fuck is wrong with you? This is just horny shit, there’s nothing deeper going on.

Not a chud.
Don't be a dick.
You're having an emotional response, which is preventing you from trying to understand a point of view that doesn't align with your own.

You don't want to understand a deeper meaning.
Not all logical things are good things.
The rules for Magical Girls here are LOGICAL, but they absolutely do not take emotion into account.
Pure Logic can be evil, which is why logic needs to be tempered with empathy.
Too much empathy though, and you start to lose track of the logic.

It's about balance.
Just like how you're emotional response is causing you to be unwilling to see logic.
At the same time, there are people who are too logical and can't see the emotional part.
Also, I didn't even call it logical.

"It makes sense"
That is not the same thing as logical.
That is mean saying that "if I think about this from the point of view of the characters, I can understand how they came to this conclusion."

Have you tried to think about this from the character's POV?
Have you?
Or, have you only considered things from YOUR worldview, and only judged them by YOUR moral standard?

 

[leviadragon]

Honestly, people can hate it, but at the same time, it does make sense.
In this world, a Magical Girl losing can end up with an entire city being erased off a map, or tons and tons of women, girls, men, and innocents being raped, hurt, and killed.
The beings who give these girls magic aren't from Earth, so they don't really care about playing nice.
"You're a hero now, if you lose, all other heroes will lose the will to fight, so your punishment will serve as a motivator to make sure all the other magical girls fight to the last breath, with all they have."

It sucks for the girls.
It really sucks, and it's horrible they get punished for losing.
When you're a hero, and you carry the world on your back, you can't afford to lose.
When men went to war, losing meant they died, their villages were taken over, their women raped and children enslaved.

How do you motivate somebody?
Make the results for losing something so horrible, you want to avoid it at all costs.

It also seems like the punishments vary.
If your punishment wasn't really seen by anyone, you're new and inexperienced, then it is scaled to that level.
If your punishment was in public though, was seen by many people, and demotivated people away from supporting the cause, then your punishment is heavier.

Yeah, this is fetish stuff.
At the same time, it is WELL THOUGHT OUT in world building.
When you ignore the eroticism of it, and take a step back to see it all from an outside point of view, you can see how "yeah, this sucks, but the logic makes sense".

I say this.
But women don't actually have standards on them that are all that crazy in the real world, though, the standards society expects from men are much higher. Like society expecting men to go die in war just for example.
At least, not standards that MEN apply to them.
Women are the ones putting standards on women these days, and then put insane standards on men too, though men are used to having those high standards and being expected to meet them.
Most men I know want three things from women.

1. Be average or pretty.
2. Be kind.
3. Don't be a slut.

Men do not care about.
1. A woman's salary.
2. A woman's height.
3. A woman's weight, as long as it is still within an average range.
4. What kind of makeup a woman wears.
5. How a woman dresses.
6. A woman's career.

Any other way of thinking is... delusion.
Most women who talk about the standards men have for women, have never asked a man what he wants from a woman, and have never asked a woman what she expects from a man.
Of course, neither side wants to listen to the other, and neither side seems to care that as time goes on, women are reporting far less happiness in life even compared to 40 years ago.

Hooo boy there's a lot to unpack there... I will grant you that the worldbuilding is internally consistent... for a horribly abusive society, and I believe that is the point the commentary that is being presented here through hyperbole.

Most people don't need additional motivation to defend people beyond "your friends and family will suffer terribly if you fail" and to assume that people (women? you mean women don't you, you're not arguing that dudes need to be sexually assaulted if they fail a war) need more than that in order to act to protect their community is... pretty wrongheaded, especially since the process of losing is already unpleasant enough to be undesirable without further insult to injury from the society you were protecting.

(Also in the real world not all wars automatically mean the women will be raped and children enslaved, cool your jets)

In addition, the idea that punishment is necessary for those that fail does not exist in a cultural vacuum, while there are alien beings providing these superpowers (who thus far seem pretty indifferent about failures), there are also plenty of human beings with their own intersecting social structures in this world, indeed the human society seems to be the main driver of this punishment system for the sake of PR. We also have the gross old men up in the stands of each trial, making extremely shitty comments for basically no reason other than to be sleazy. Hell, even the notion that Punitive Justice is Necessary or Helpful is also disproved by... it never actually doing that in reality.

Added ON TOP of that is that the evidence thus far, from perverted lemon men to bumbling secret societies, none of the antagonists seem to be an actual threat to life and limb as far as we have seen so far, only to "purity and chastity" which is a whoooole other can of worms that I'm not even going to address at this time. As such, the necessity for forever-torture punishments for the women who fail is excessive by any reasonable metric.

Now... no-one asked about your opinions on real-world gender politics my dude, but you went and shared your bad takes, so I'll simply say this.

I will take seriously the claim that men have it harder than us when they stop raping and/or murdering us at an astonishing rate for "disrespecting me" or "asking for it with that outfit". The idea that we "only" have to be kinda pretty when even the sexiest women in the world will be negged to hell and back the second they indicate the flaw of being human rather than a perfect marble statue. The idea that we need to "be kind" when if we stand up for ourselves against someone shitty, or so much as have an opinion immediately twits like you call us "mouthy bitches". The notion that we should "not be a slut" when you really mean that you want us to never have any sexual agency or desire for ourselves, only for you to entertain yourself with our bodies at your leisure. You are so full of shit.

you are repeating the exact same excuses for cruelty towards women who appear in an "improper" way that this series is using metaphor to both fetishize and criticize, and you really don't seem to even realize it.

 

[MadRaptor]

Hooo boy there's a lot to unpack there... I will grant you that the worldbuilding is internally consistent... for a horribly abusive society, and I believe that is the point the commentary that is being presented here through hyperbole.

Most people don't need additional motivation to defend people beyond "your friends and family will suffer terribly if you fail" and to assume that people (women? you mean women don't you, you're not arguing that dudes need to be sexually assaulted if they fail a war) need more than that in order to act to protect their community is... pretty wrongheaded, especially since the process of losing is already unpleasant enough to be undesirable without further insult to injury from the society you were protecting.

(Also in the real world not all wars automatically mean the women will be raped and children enslaved, cool your jets)

In addition, the idea that punishment is necessary for those that fail does not exist in a cultural vacuum, while there are alien beings providing these superpowers (who thus far seem pretty indifferent about failures), there are also plenty of human beings with their own intersecting social structures in this world, indeed the human society seems to be the main driver of this punishment system for the sake of PR. We also have the gross old men up in the stands of each trial, making extremely shitty comments for basically no reason other than to be sleazy. Hell, even the notion that Punitive Justice is Necessary or Helpful is also disproved by... it never actually doing that in reality.

Added ON TOP of that is that the evidence thus far, from perverted lemon men to bumbling secret societies, none of the antagonists seem to be an actual threat to life and limb as far as we have seen so far, only to "purity and chastity" which is a whoooole other can of worms that I'm not even going to address at this time. As such, the necessity for forever-torture punishments for the women who fail is excessive by any reasonable metric.

Now... no-one asked about your opinions on real-world gender politics my dude, but you went and shared your bad takes, so I'll simply say this.

I will take seriously the claim that men have it harder than us when they stop raping and/or murdering us at an astonishing rate for "disrespecting me" or "asking for it with that outfit". The idea that we "only" have to be kinda pretty when even the sexiest women in the world will be negged to hell and back the second they indicate the flaw of being human rather than a perfect marble statue. The idea that we need to "be kind" when if we stand up for ourselves against someone shitty, or so much as have an opinion immediately twits like you call us "mouthy bitches". The notion that we should "not be a slut" when you really mean that you want us to never have any sexual agency or desire for ourselves, only for you to entertain yourself with our bodies at your leisure. You are so full of shit.

you are repeating the exact same excuses for cruelty towards women who appear in an "improper" way that this series is using metaphor to both fetishize and criticize, and you really don't seem to even realize it.

You're the one who talked about real life struggles first.
Also, yes, nearly ALL wars through out history resulted in women and children of the losing side either being raped, killed, or captured as slaves.

Men DO have it harder, that is not saying women have it easy.
Men commit most of the suicides, and men are often times MOCKED for having issues rather than supported in the same way women are. Men's Health Month is mocked all the time, while Women's Health is celebrated year round.
If a woman accuses a man of rape in many countries, then that man is considered guilty until PROVEN innocent, and a large % of men are actually proven to have been innocent these days, or they were falsely labeled the criminal because the woman misremembered details and pointed the wrong guy out.

Men and Women BOTH should "not be sluts"
It is not a double standard.

Most of those "Sexiest women" aren't negged for a small flaw, they are negged because often times they get famous, and then proceed to unleash the absolute worst takes anyone has ever heard.

Also, read.
I never said punishment was NECESSARY!
I said that punishment was considered needed, which is way different, because something can be considered true, without actually being true.

Also, your point of "most people don't need additional motivation"
Yes, they do.
Many people would rather run from a fight to protect something else, than to face the challenge head on, if they can escape with life.
Real life example.
In Ukraine, the men are being stolen away by the military and forcefully recruited to join the war against Russia and die, there is video of men being kidnapped and trying to escape.
The women in Ukraine, are fleeing to other countries, and many are on social media bragging about their new lifes, which cost them the lives of the men of their country.

So, no.
For a lot of people, unless punishment is involved, they won't fight for what is right if the odds don't look good for them.

I agreed by the way.
The punishments can be excessive in this series.
Also, most of your comment was not about anything more than saying women have it harder, which is false.
Women say women have it harder, because women don't live the lifes of man.

Read the book by Norah Vincent.
She is a woman who lived for 18 months as a man and released a book.
She lived among men, and in society as a man, for 18 months and said that she at times felt like killing herself.
When she cried, nobody cared to help her at all.
When she felt stressed, nobody cared.
When she tried to approach women, she was met with disdain and hate, until she told those women she was actually a woman and they accepted her.
She stated in her book that she never knew the struggles of men, and how much worse they were, until she lived life as a man, and when the experiment was over, she was never happier to be a woman.

Do women have struggles?
Yes.

Do women have it worse than men?
No.

Because women can't comprehend or don't care to learn about the struggles of men, and when they do, other women tell them they are crazy or a traitor.
Whenever a woman "Transitions" to a man, they are often times SHOCKED by how worse they are treated as men.

"Not being a slut"
For example.
Having an excessive amount of sexual partners for men and women can ruin a person's ability to pair bond, and find a good life partner, so when I say "don't be a slut", I mean, don't go around and fucking a different partner every single week or month.
I also hold men and women to this same standard.

So, it isn't an excuse.
Also, "Gross old men"
Those look like pretty average men, though their comments ARE gross and unneeded, considering they shouldn't be making comments like that in a courtroom at all.

 

[leviadragon]

You're the one who talked about real life struggles first.
Also, yes, nearly ALL wars through out history resulted in women and children of the losing side either being raped, killed, or captured as slaves.

Men DO have it harder, that is not saying women have it easy.
Men commit most of the suicides, and men are often times MOCKED for having issues rather than supported in the same way women are. Men's Health Month is mocked all the time, while Women's Health is celebrated year round.
If a woman accuses a man of rape in many countries, then that man is considered guilty until PROVEN innocent, and a large % of men are actually proven to have been innocent these days, or they were falsely labeled the criminal because the woman misremembered details and pointed the wrong guy out.

Men and Women BOTH should "not be sluts"
It is not a double standard.

Most of those "Sexiest women" aren't negged for a small flaw, they are negged because often times they get famous, and then proceed to unleash the absolute worst takes anyone has ever heard.

Also, read.
I never said punishment was NECESSARY!
I said that punishment was considered needed, which is way different, because something can be considered true, without actually being true.

Also, your point of "most people don't need additional motivation"
Yes, they do.
Many people would rather run from a fight to protect something else, than to face the challenge head on, if they can escape with life.
Real life example.
In Ukraine, the men are being stolen away by the military and forcefully recruited to join the war against Russia and die, there is video of men being kidnapped and trying to escape.
The women in Ukraine, are fleeing to other countries, and many are on social media bragging about their new lifes, which cost them the lives of the men of their country.

So, no.
For a lot of people, unless punishment is involved, they won't fight for what is right if the odds don't look good for them.

I agreed by the way.
The punishments can be excessive in this series.
Also, most of your comment was not about anything more than saying women have it harder, which is false.
Women say women have it harder, because women don't live the lifes of man.

Read the book by Norah Vincent.
She is a woman who lived for 18 months as a man and released a book.
She lived among men, and in society as a man, for 18 months and said that she at times felt like killing herself.
When she cried, nobody cared to help her at all.
When she felt stressed, nobody cared.
When she tried to approach women, she was met with disdain and hate, until she told those women she was actually a woman and they accepted her.
She stated in her book that she never knew the struggles of men, and how much worse they were, until she lived life as a man, and when the experiment was over, she was never happier to be a woman.

Do women have struggles?
Yes.

Do women have it worse than men?
No.

Because women can't comprehend or don't care to learn about the struggles of men, and when they do, other women tell them they are crazy or a traitor.
Whenever a woman "Transitions" to a man, they are often times SHOCKED by how worse they are treated as men.

"Not being a slut"
For example.
Having an excessive amount of sexual partners for men and women can ruin a person's ability to pair bond, and find a good life partner, so when I say "don't be a slut", I mean, don't go around and fucking a different partner every single week or month.
I also hold men and women to this same standard.

So, it isn't an excuse.
Also, "Gross old men"
Those look like pretty average men, though their comments ARE gross and unneeded, considering they shouldn't be making comments like that in a courtroom at all.

Holy shit that's a lot of nonsense, though the one thing I will say is the "having many partners impairs pair bonding" is some right-wing christian pseudoscience nonsense, that's all I really need to respond to this time to point out how fundamentally unserious/brainwashed you are. I'm sure there's more there that I could eviscerate, but I don't really have the energy to pick over that much manosphere-adjacent ranting. Yes, Men are also suffering terribly under Patriarchy, but this line of rhetoric trying to downplay or justify the horrible treatment of women that you are following only reinforces men AND women getting fucked over by these hierarchies of exploitation. Touch Grass and get therapy please.

 

[MadRaptor]

Holy shit that's a lot of nonsense, though the one thing I will say is the "having many partners impairs pair bonding" is some right-wing christian pseudoscience nonsense, that's all I really need to respond to this time to point out how fundamentally unserious/brainwashed you are. I'm sure there's more there that I could eviscerate, but I don't really have the energy to pick over that much manosphere-adjacent ranting. Yes, Men are also suffering terribly under Patriarchy, but this line of rhetoric trying to downplay or justify the horrible treatment of women that you are following only reinforces men AND women getting fucked over by these hierarchies of exploitation. Touch Grass and get therapy please.

Notice how I never downplayed women.
Notice how I never justified suffering.
The pair-bonding thing is an observable fact, in that the more partners a person has had in the past, the less likely they will be able to stay married in the future.
"Right-Wing Christian Pseudo-Science" - That alone shows your extreme bias and hatred, since nothing I said is "Right Wing" and nothing I said was stated in the name of Christianity.
You don't like the facts, so instead of confront them, you try and downplay them and put words in my mouth I never stated.
You do not argue in good faith.
Notice how I never launched a personal attack at you, but you call me brainwashed for having a different view than you.
Notice how you stated you "could eviscerate" what I said, but never actually do it.
I provided evidence to my statements.

"Manosphere"
Notice how instead of tackling the argument, you insult the argument.

Here are some facts.
Women self-report in being unhappy in record numbers, compared to just 30 years ago.
Record numbers of men are reporting as deciding to avoid women, due to trauma in dealing with them, and fearing being falsely reported of a crime they didn't admit, or being socially ruined.
Most divorces are initiated by women, and women benefit greatly from divorces.
Women typically get automatic custody of children, even if is deemed unfit as a parent, and a father has to fight to get the child.
Women get to vote without having to sign up for the Draft.
Men don't get to vote without signing up for the Draft, and if they don't sign up, they get fined or prison time and get signed up automatically.
Men make up nearly the entirety of hard labor work, work longer hours, take less vacations, get less days off, but women still fight for the equal pay they are already getting, even though the reason for their lower pay is not because they are paid less, but because they work less hours, and thus don't get as many promotions and raises that come with long, hard work.

Men get the label of "Mansplaining" and their words don't get taken seriously, and when they get accused of mansplaining, anything they say gets dismissed.
It is suspected that 20% of men are raising children that are not theirs, and they don't know it.

Women hold men to a higher standard than men hold women.
Women hold women to a higher standard than men hold women.
Men hold men to a higher standard than men hold women.
Women have benefited from a patriarchy.

Those roads you drive on? Men built them.
Those buildings you live in? Men built them.
The laws that protect women? Men enforce them.
The sewers, electrical grid, and all infrastructure that have benefitted women? Men did that.
The wars fought to protect women? Men fought them.
The people who laid their lives down for the people? Mostly men.
The highest workplace death? Men.
The highest suicide rates? Men.
Men face longer prison times for the same crimes as women.
Men are always depicted as foolish, stupid, and incompetent in most forms of media these days, while women are always depicted as smart, snarky, competent, and in control.
Men have turned this world into one where women benefit more than anyone else, and you girls WANT MORE, but you don't respect the people who give it to you.

I don't blame you.
Since you were a child, all the TV shows you watched showed men as incompetent, and in school you were taught about feminism, and how women "fought" for the right to vote.

You didn't learn correctly.
You don't know that most women did NOT want the right to vote, because they thought they would have to sign up for the draft.
They got the right to vote, but not the responsibility that came with it.
You can vote for the people who send men to fight in war, so you don't need to be as informed as men, because the lawmakers don't affect you the same way as it affects men.

I'm not going to call you brainwashed.
I'm not going to insult you either.

You've most likely never heard the facts.
I will say this, I do feel sorry for you, because you are ignorant.
I'm not calling you stupid, or insulting you, but the facts you were taught were simply not true.

As time goes on, and women are taught to hate men, women's happiness goes down.

I feel sorry, genuinely sorry, that society has tricked women into wanting the stuff that makes them unhappy.

I don't mind being treated worse as a man.
I don't mind being held to a higher standard as a man.
I just don't like it when somebody with an easier life, tells me how much harder their life is, and then tells me I have an easy life and says I am to blame for their suffering.

 

[leviadragon]

Notice how I never downplayed women.
Notice how I never justified suffering.
The pair-bonding thing is an observable fact, in that the more partners a person has had in the past, the less likely they will be able to stay married in the future.
"Right-Wing Christian Pseudo-Science" - That alone shows your extreme bias and hatred, since nothing I said is "Right Wing" and nothing I said was stated in the name of Christianity.
You don't like the facts, so instead of confront them, you try and downplay them and put words in my mouth I never stated.
You do not argue in good faith.
Notice how I never launched a personal attack at you, but you call me brainwashed for having a different view than you.
Notice how you stated you "could eviscerate" what I said, but never actually do it.
I provided evidence to my statements.

"Manosphere"
Notice how instead of tackling the argument, you insult the argument.

Here are some facts.
Women self-report in being unhappy in record numbers, compared to just 30 years ago.
Record numbers of men are reporting as deciding to avoid women, due to trauma in dealing with them, and fearing being falsely reported of a crime they didn't admit, or being socially ruined.
Most divorces are initiated by women, and women benefit greatly from divorces.
Women typically get automatic custody of children, even if is deemed unfit as a parent, and a father has to fight to get the child.
Women get to vote without having to sign up for the Draft.
Men don't get to vote without signing up for the Draft, and if they don't sign up, they get fined or prison time and get signed up automatically.
Men make up nearly the entirety of hard labor work, work longer hours, take less vacations, get less days off, but women still fight for the equal pay they are already getting, even though the reason for their lower pay is not because they are paid less, but because they work less hours, and thus don't get as many promotions and raises that come with long, hard work.

Men get the label of "Mansplaining" and their words don't get taken seriously, and when they get accused of mansplaining, anything they say gets dismissed.
It is suspected that 20% of men are raising children that are not theirs, and they don't know it.

Women hold men to a higher standard than men hold women.
Women hold women to a higher standard than men hold women.
Men hold men to a higher standard than men hold women.
Women have benefited from a patriarchy.

Those roads you drive on? Men built them.
Those buildings you live in? Men built them.
The laws that protect women? Men enforce them.
The sewers, electrical grid, and all infrastructure that have benefitted women? Men did that.
The wars fought to protect women? Men fought them.
The people who laid their lives down for the people? Mostly men.
The highest workplace death? Men.
The highest suicide rates? Men.
Men face longer prison times for the same crimes as women.
Men are always depicted as foolish, stupid, and incompetent in most forms of media these days, while women are always depicted as smart, snarky, competent, and in control.
Men have turned this world into one where women benefit more than anyone else, and you girls WANT MORE, but you don't respect the people who give it to you.

I don't blame you.
Since you were a child, all the TV shows you watched showed men as incompetent, and in school you were taught about feminism, and how women "fought" for the right to vote.

You didn't learn correctly.
You don't know that most women did NOT want the right to vote, because they thought they would have to sign up for the draft.
They got the right to vote, but not the responsibility that came with it.
You can vote for the people who send men to fight in war, so you don't need to be as informed as men, because the lawmakers don't affect you the same way as it affects men.

I'm not going to call you brainwashed.
I'm not going to insult you either.

You've most likely never heard the facts.
I will say this, I do feel sorry for you, because you are ignorant.
I'm not calling you stupid, or insulting you, but the facts you were taught were simply not true.

As time goes on, and women are taught to hate men, women's happiness goes down.

I feel sorry, genuinely sorry, that society has tricked women into wanting the stuff that makes them unhappy.

I don't mind being treated worse as a man.
I don't mind being held to a higher standard as a man.
I just don't like it when somebody with an easier life, tells me how much harder their life is, and then tells me I have an easy life and says I am to blame for their suffering.

So much concern-trolling, you're pathetic, but I bet you get that a lot. I am glad that you admit to being a manosphere twit though, even if you try to present that as righteous. Not sure exactly why you're continuing to write essays when I'm TLDRing the shit out of your script of BS. I don't even need to read it because it's always exactly the same, I could probably blindly recite your own talking points back to you.

I truly hope that you're a teenager going through a phase and not a lifer, because lemme tell ya, the manosphere idols you have? They're grifters, exploiting you, keeping you sad and alone so you still need them, financially exploiting you with overpriced merch, pseudoscience supplements, self-help courses that has less original material than a hallmark card, or however else they're wringing you dry, all so you can keep worshiping the altar of patriarchy in the hope that you could become one of the tiny handful of men it actually serves. So you could become the kind of man who can exploit men and women alike, treat people like toys.

You dream of putting us "in our place" you claim that we're unhappy without you when EVERYONE is fucking sad these days because capitalism is killing us, and all the while you can't see how you simping for tate or techbros or trump is just you letting them cuck your life.

You talk complete bullshit about "no really bro, every war has women raped and children killed without exception" like its your fucking fantasy, and your only source is "trust me bro" all so you can justify some mythic noble duty you're supposed to have to protect the women and kids from that, when you'd be more likely to let Trump take another Epstein voyage with any women or children related to you because something-something successful means trustworthy, something-something fake news, something-something drain the swamp.

 

[MadRaptor]

So much concern-trolling, you're pathetic, but I bet you get that a lot. I am glad that you admit to being a manosphere twit though, even if you try to present that as righteous. Not sure exactly why you're continuing to write essays when I'm TLDRing the shit out of your script of BS. I don't even need to read it because it's always exactly the same, I could probably blindly recite your own talking points back to you.

I truly hope that you're a teenager going through a phase and not a lifer, because lemme tell ya, the manosphere idols you have? They're grifters, exploiting you, keeping you sad and alone so you still need them, financially exploiting you with overpriced merch, pseudoscience supplements, self-help courses that has less original material than a hallmark card, or however else they're wringing you dry, all so you can keep worshiping the altar of patriarchy in the hope that you could become one of the tiny handful of men it actually serves. So you could become the kind of man who can exploit men and women alike, treat people like toys.

You dream of putting us "in our place" you claim that we're unhappy without you when EVERYONE is fucking sad these days because capitalism is killing us, and all the while you can't see how you simping for tate or techbros or trump is just you letting them cuck your life.

You talk complete bullshit about "no really bro, every war has women raped and children killed without exception" like its your fucking fantasy, and your only source is "trust me bro" all so you can justify some mythic noble duty you're supposed to have to protect the women and kids from that, when you'd be more likely to let Trump take another Epstein voyage with any women or children related to you because something-something successful means trustworthy, something-something fake news, something-something drain the swamp.

Really?
This was never political until YOU made it political.
This is what I was talking about, you will never see truth.

 

[leviadragon]

Really?
This was never political until YOU made it political.
This is what I was talking about, you will never see truth.

"How do you motivate somebody?
Make the results for losing something so horrible, you want to avoid it at all costs."

You may recognize this as a snippet of your first comment on this thread, or at least the first one after you started making it a shitshow. You clearly don't realize, but this is an intensely political claim about the nature of human psychology, societal structures, and coercion as a useful/necessary form of social control. This claim is at best debatable, but to you it is normal, so it seems invisible and impossible to challenge.

This is a form of Ideological Realism. Capitalist Realism is the most famous example, where an individual's education, media exposure, community and even vocabulary is so fundamentally controlled that they don't even have the capacity to recognize that their perspective is limited, much less extrapolate what a less limited perspective would be.

Another analogy, Plato's Cave. You are staring at the shadows dancing on the wall as you clap like a seal and suck Tate taint, while he picks your pocket. I don't care if your far-right grifter of choice is Tate or someone else, this is a called shot on one of the most popular figures (and criminals) of the online movement you tacitly admitted you're a part of.

What is politics? Politics is everything, politics is nothing more or less than the formalization or commodification of ideas that exist in the broader world. When right-wing shitheads decide to ban abortion, that's political from multiple directions, when right-wing people hate on queer people, that's political, and yes, when men extrapolate "man it's shitty in society huh" to "well clearly women don't have it as bad and/or it's their fault because something-something pair bonding" that is a political statement. Ergo, saying something is political is a pointless non-statement, because fucking everything is, and that has zero relationship to how worth it is discussing.

Also, get bent. I did not start this by any stretch of the imagination, I did not reply to your comment first, you replied to one of mine, sharing your bad takes in response to my assessment of the text, you are quite literally the one who tried to impose your politics onto mine.

I will freely, proudly admit that I was talking politics, as well as philosophy, sociology and literary analysis. You whine at me for "getting political" while having the hypocrisy to not admit it about yourself, you present braindead misinformation as true because it supports your bioessentialist worldview and have the sheer fucking temerity to complain that I am too political?

I'm a gay woman, I was never gonna touch your peepee anyway, but I also have male friends that I would take a bullet for, who have no interest in fucking me, who have confided their fears and anxieties to me. I'm sure that blows your mind. We wingman for each other, I play Pathfinder with them, I join one of them in recording videogame LPs for youtube, I have a life... and you clearly do not.

If you want to get close to women, leave this toxic shit behind you, or you are just gonna end up sad and alone for decades to come, until you are found melted into your mattress six months after you died from scurvy or some shit because no-one was in community with you to find your remains sooner, and you weren't mentally able to take care of yourself.

 

[MadRaptor]

"How do you motivate somebody?
Make the results for losing something so horrible, you want to avoid it at all costs."

You may recognize this as a snippet of your first comment on this thread, or at least the first one after you started making it a shitshow. You clearly don't realize, but this is an intensely political claim about the nature of human psychology, societal structures, and coercion as a useful/necessary form of social control. This claim is at best debatable, but to you it is normal, so it seems invisible and impossible to challenge.

This is a form of Ideological Realism. Capitalist Realism is the most famous example, where an individual's education, media exposure, community and even vocabulary is so fundamentally controlled that they don't even have the capacity to recognize that their perspective is limited, much less extrapolate what a less limited perspective would be.

Another analogy, Plato's Cave. You are staring at the shadows dancing on the wall as you clap like a seal and suck Tate taint, while he picks your pocket. I don't care if your far-right grifter of choice is Tate or someone else, this is a called shot on one of the most popular figures (and criminals) of the online movement you tacitly admitted you're a part of.

What is politics? Politics is everything, politics is nothing more or less than the formalization or commodification of ideas that exist in the broader world. When right-wing shitheads decide to ban abortion, that's political from multiple directions, when right-wing people hate on queer people, that's political, and yes, when men extrapolate "man it's shitty in society huh" to "well clearly women don't have it as bad and/or it's their fault because something-something pair bonding" that is a political statement. Ergo, saying something is political is a pointless non-statement, because fucking everything is, and that has zero relationship to how worth it is discussing.

Also, get bent. I did not start this by any stretch of the imagination, I did not reply to your comment first, you replied to one of mine, sharing your bad takes in response to my assessment of the text, you are quite literally the one who tried to impose your politics onto mine.

I will freely, proudly admit that I was talking politics, as well as philosophy, sociology and literary analysis. You whine at me for "getting political" while having the hypocrisy to not admit it about yourself, you present braindead misinformation as true because it supports your bioessentialist worldview and have the sheer fucking temerity to complain that I am too political?

I'm a gay woman, I was never gonna touch your peepee anyway, but I also have male friends that I would take a bullet for, who have no interest in fucking me, who have confided their fears and anxieties to me. I'm sure that blows your mind. We wingman for each other, I play Pathfinder with them, I join one of them in recording videogame LPs for youtube, I have a life... and you clearly do not.

If you want to get close to women, leave this toxic shit behind you, or you are just gonna end up sad and alone for decades to come, until you are found melted into your mattress six months after you died from scurvy or some shit because no-one was in community with you to find your remains sooner, and you weren't mentally able to take care of yourself.

Talk without being an insulting dipshit about it.
You started this off hostile for no reason.
I don't care you're a gay woman, and I don't want anyone but by wife touching my junk.
Also, look at what you're doing, you tell me to stop being toxic, but you're the one purposely trying to be hurtful.
The only women I get close to is my wife, my mother, my aunt, and my twin daughters.

Your guy friends have no interest in fucking you because you're either ugly, or your horrible personality is a turn off.

I fucking hate Andrew Tate.
He's a fake man asshole who takes advantage of dumb men and women. He preaches fake masculinity.
You make stupid assumptions about me.
I never admitted I was part of any movement.

YOU made that assumption.
I speak common sense and statistics.
Your side hates common sense.
Still, there is no more point in writing to you, because my words don't seem to register in any meaningful way.

I'm happy you're gay though.
You've decided to take yourself out of the gene pool.

 

[kunyka]

You're the one who talked about real life struggles first.
Also, yes, nearly ALL wars through out history resulted in women and children of the losing side either being raped, killed, or captured as slaves.

Men DO have it harder, that is not saying women have it easy.
Men commit most of the suicides, and men are often times MOCKED for having issues rather than supported in the same way women are. Men's Health Month is mocked all the time, while Women's Health is celebrated year round.
If a woman accuses a man of rape in many countries, then that man is considered guilty until PROVEN innocent, and a large % of men are actually proven to have been innocent these days, or they were falsely labeled the criminal because the woman misremembered details and pointed the wrong guy out.

Men and Women BOTH should "not be sluts"
It is not a double standard.

Most of those "Sexiest women" aren't negged for a small flaw, they are negged because often times they get famous, and then proceed to unleash the absolute worst takes anyone has ever heard.

Also, read.
I never said punishment was NECESSARY!
I said that punishment was considered needed, which is way different, because something can be considered true, without actually being true.

Also, your point of "most people don't need additional motivation"
Yes, they do.
Many people would rather run from a fight to protect something else, than to face the challenge head on, if they can escape with life.
Real life example.
In Ukraine, the men are being stolen away by the military and forcefully recruited to join the war against Russia and die, there is video of men being kidnapped and trying to escape.
The women in Ukraine, are fleeing to other countries, and many are on social media bragging about their new lifes, which cost them the lives of the men of their country.

So, no.
For a lot of people, unless punishment is involved, they won't fight for what is right if the odds don't look good for them.

I agreed by the way.
The punishments can be excessive in this series.
Also, most of your comment was not about anything more than saying women have it harder, which is false.
Women say women have it harder, because women don't live the lifes of man.

Read the book by Norah Vincent.
She is a woman who lived for 18 months as a man and released a book.
She lived among men, and in society as a man, for 18 months and said that she at times felt like killing herself.
When she cried, nobody cared to help her at all.
When she felt stressed, nobody cared.
When she tried to approach women, she was met with disdain and hate, until she told those women she was actually a woman and they accepted her.
She stated in her book that she never knew the struggles of men, and how much worse they were, until she lived life as a man, and when the experiment was over, she was never happier to be a woman.

Do women have struggles?
Yes.

Do women have it worse than men?
No.

Because women can't comprehend or don't care to learn about the struggles of men, and when they do, other women tell them they are crazy or a traitor.
Whenever a woman "Transitions" to a man, they are often times SHOCKED by how worse they are treated as men.

"Not being a slut"
For example.
Having an excessive amount of sexual partners for men and women can ruin a person's ability to pair bond, and find a good life partner, so when I say "don't be a slut", I mean, don't go around and fucking a different partner every single week or month.
I also hold men and women to this same standard.

So, it isn't an excuse.
Also, "Gross old men"
Those look like pretty average men, though their comments ARE gross and unneeded, considering they shouldn't be making comments like that in a courtroom at all.

I SAID STOP FUCKING LIE ABOUT UKRAINE, YOU USELESS PIECE OF TRASH.
1. WTF YOU SUPPORT RUSSIAN WAR AGAINST UKRAINE?!
2. WTF YOU CALL OUR PEOPLE "AN EMIGRANT NATION", IF WE ARE NOT?!

STOP HATE UKRAINE RIGHT DAMN NOW, MOTHERFUCKER.

 

[leviadragon]

Talk without being an insulting dipshit about it.
You started this off hostile for no reason.
I don't care you're a gay woman, and I don't want anyone but by wife touching my junk.
Also, look at what you're doing, you tell me to stop being toxic, but you're the one purposely trying to be hurtful.
The only women I get close to is my wife, my mother, my aunt, and my twin daughters.

Your guy friends have no interest in fucking you because you're either ugly, or your horrible personality is a turn off.

I fucking hate Andrew Tate.
He's a fake man asshole who takes advantage of dumb men and women. He preaches fake masculinity.
You make stupid assumptions about me.
I never admitted I was part of any movement.

YOU made that assumption.
I speak common sense and statistics.
Your side hates common sense.
Still, there is no more point in writing to you, because my words don't seem to register in any meaningful way.

I'm happy you're gay though.
You've decided to take yourself out of the gene pool.

Well it appears from someone else's response to you that you are simping for Russia's war in Ukraine, so yet again I have no reason to take you seriously.

You want to know the point where I decided to TLDR your bullshit? It's when you didn't disavow my called shot on you being a trump simp. You didn't deny supporting him, just whined that I was getting "too political" AND you decided to defend the manosphere by whining that people are too mean to its ideas, failing to see the "value" in them, which certainly sounds like you're a tate-sucker, it honestly doesn't even matter whether he's your aspiring sex-slaver of choice, you're defending manoshpere talking points to the hilt, so someone in that community has your balls in a vice.

If you genuinely hated the manosphere's ideology, then your response to me pointing it out wouldn't have been "man why you gotta put a label that has baggage on it" it would have been to immediately disavow that whole space and clarify how and why you're different. But you have been deafeningly silent about my observation that you want women to be enslaved, almost like you don't want to actually fight on that front because you know it'll reveal how much of a monster you are. You just present all these half-assed lies trying to passive-voice justify inequality, downplay the harms done to women, and act as if the harms done to men will somehow get any better by you enslaving us. And then you have the gall to try and tone-police me for being "too mean" when you're a fascist? Being rude to you is the morally correct move, end of story.

You throw out falsehoods about everything under the sun because your grifter of choice lied about a single study from the 80's that was pretty shady already. Because that's the calibre of "proof" you self-important shits are working with. You hunt for the one study in decades that kinda-sorta supports what you already believed, and ignore the fact that it was debunked a year later and paid for by lobbyists or ambulance chaser lawyers, to claim that vaccines cause autism, or that women are genetically programmed to be submissive or whatever other insane shit you believe. It's all the same level of stupid pseudoscience bullshit, so you end up sounding like a fuckin' flat-earther when they whine about that one study that disproved fuckin' Aether that they don't understand.

The science is not on your side my far-right friend, because right-wing bullshit is antithetical to basic reality, and science kinda relies on reality. But hey, if you want me to start actually reading your comments again, cite some fuckin' sources. If you can link me to a relevant scientific study that provides literally any supporting evidence for literally any of your batshit ideas and not just "oh watch this guy's videos" then I'll gladly take a closer look and tear apart whatever some Diploma mill hack threw together for an unaccredited internet forum masquerading as a scientific journal for the sake of their bribe from the Heritage Foundation.

Your Martyr complex about "well I have the truth and you don't so nyeeh" is built on a castle of sand.

 

[kunyka]

EV

You're the one who talked about real life struggles first.
Also, yes, nearly ALL wars through out history resulted in women and children of the losing side either being raped, killed, or captured as slaves.

Men DO have it harder, that is not saying women have it easy.
Men commit most of the suicides, and men are often times MOCKED for having issues rather than supported in the same way women are. Men's Health Month is mocked all the time, while Women's Health is celebrated year round.
If a woman accuses a man of rape in many countries, then that man is considered guilty until PROVEN innocent, and a large % of men are actually proven to have been innocent these days, or they were falsely labeled the criminal because the woman misremembered details and pointed the wrong guy out.

Men and Women BOTH should "not be sluts"
It is not a double standard.

Most of those "Sexiest women" aren't negged for a small flaw, they are negged because often times they get famous, and then proceed to unleash the absolute worst takes anyone has ever heard.

Also, read.
I never said punishment was NECESSARY!
I said that punishment was considered needed, which is way different, because something can be considered true, without actually being true.

Also, your point of "most people don't need additional motivation"
Yes, they do.
Many people would rather run from a fight to protect something else, than to face the challenge head on, if they can escape with life.
Real life example.
In Ukraine, the men are being stolen away by the military and forcefully recruited to join the war against Russia and die, there is video of men being kidnapped and trying to escape.
The women in Ukraine, are fleeing to other countries, and many are on social media bragging about their new lifes, which cost them the lives of the men of their country.

So, no.
For a lot of people, unless punishment is involved, they won't fight for what is right if the odds don't look good for them.

I agreed by the way.
The punishments can be excessive in this series.
Also, most of your comment was not about anything more than saying women have it harder, which is false.
Women say women have it harder, because women don't live the lifes of man.

Read the book by Norah Vincent.
She is a woman who lived for 18 months as a man and released a book.
She lived among men, and in society as a man, for 18 months and said that she at times felt like killing herself.
When she cried, nobody cared to help her at all.
When she felt stressed, nobody cared.
When she tried to approach women, she was met with disdain and hate, until she told those women she was actually a woman and they accepted her.
She stated in her book that she never knew the struggles of men, and how much worse they were, until she lived life as a man, and when the experiment was over, she was never happier to be a woman.

Do women have struggles?
Yes.

Do women have it worse than men?
No.

Because women can't comprehend or don't care to learn about the struggles of men, and when they do, other women tell them they are crazy or a traitor.
Whenever a woman "Transitions" to a man, they are often times SHOCKED by how worse they are treated as men.

"Not being a slut"
For example.
Having an excessive amount of sexual partners for men and women can ruin a person's ability to pair bond, and find a good life partner, so when I say "don't be a slut", I mean, don't go around and fucking a different partner every single week or month.
I also hold men and women to this same standard.

So, it isn't an excuse.
Also, "Gross old men"
Those look like pretty average men, though their comments ARE gross and unneeded, considering they shouldn't be making comments like that in a courtroom at all.

EVERYONE who hates Ukraine and Ukrainian people deserve DEATH.
I am from UKRAINE, Russia shells my homeland DAILY. DAILY deaths, DAILY destruction and an ongoing offensive, too.
THE DAMNED HELL YOU SUPPORT THAT, MOTHERFUCKER?!
WHY SHOULD WE, UKRAINIAN PEOPLE, GO EXTINCT WHILE EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS PLANET CAN EXIST?!