Musume no Shinshitsu - Vol. 5 Ch. 41 - If we are a family

[MangaDex]

 

[Otaku0z]

First comment

 

[Funoob02]

damn she's crazy XD

 

[77BLc9JwJGpLVARkamJx]

Welp, maybe the gas didnt saturate the room/building enough to really kill them off.

 

[UdenEmpati]

I doubt both detectives are dead. Her going downstairs feels like her avoiding the lethality of the explosion, but I kinda think this kills her partner--especially eince we just learned who he really is, and why he's important to Ishimura.

Ken, though, is interesting. In his own way, he's now going off the deep end, talking about abduction and hostage-taking. The fact he convinces himself it's "for his family", and that even Moe will ultimately benefit from this, kinda leads me to believe that he is no longer purely a victim in all of this.

He's not as overtly violent as Moe, but it's now just pure selfishness on his part, even as he lies to himself about how "it's for all of us". Because he could have either just stayed with Akemi, or even run off with Ishimura and left his family behind entirely. (That second one was never going to happen, given the themes of family in this chapter.) But it's become more about what Ken wants, regardless of the wishes of the rest, than it is whatever selfless goal he originally might have pursued.

And now that the two detectives are at least hurt, up to maybe dead, he has even less reason to not go unhinged in his obsessed pursuit of Moe. So if he wasn't violent or "off the deep end" before, he'll use this incident as justification to ge just as violent right back.

 

[NeverAnother]

Holy FUCK this story is actually goated. We’re returning to the idea of “killing doesn’t make something dead” so No doubt the investigators are still alive in some capacity.

 

[gmayor61]

The story was actually about how smoking is bad all along.

 

[danbellucci]

pretty low probability of success plan. how would he know that the detectives would light up a cigarrette before finding the cannister of explosive gas?
even if we suppose he actually hid the propane cannister properly so people wouldn't casually see it, how would he know that those two detecties would be the one to trigger it that evening and not another employee at the same office building?
also,how would he know that both of the detectives would be in the building at the same time and get caught in the explosion?
if just one of htem went to pick something up and triggered the explosion, the other would become far harder to kill.
Since there isn't a huge time pressure to try and kill the detectives ASAP , it seems like it would make more sense to come up with a plan more certain to kill both of them.

thanks for the chapter!

 

[Ldark]

Sure Ken this is for your family, I belive you. Well that sure is gonna mess up the detectives more, but yeah she migh survive it since she went downstairs but the other guy it's gonna be really messed up if he survives, well this gives them an idea that they should not mess with Moe, she's gonna do something worse if they try to interfere with her and their dad, I can't see Ken plan working out at all, not to mention "this family" he's trying to protect is pretty much gone, he's better off running and moving away from them, at least the best ending he can get.

 

[chiruno09]

pretty sure this was because he set up his own red flag by telling ken the story of him and his sister. goddammit

 

[pink_rabbit]

Ken is taking hit after hit despite growing up in a messed up home. If he's still alive by the end of the manga then he might take the place of being a detective

 

[BegoneThoth]

I've been thinking this for a while so just post it here: The dad's the root cause of all the problems. Specifically his pedophilic nature. And I don't think his pedo-ness is brought up enough by commenters.

 

[UdenEmpati]

I've been thinking this for a while so just post it here: The dad's the root cause of all the problems. Specifically his pedophilic nature. And I don't think his pedo-ness is brought up enough by commenters.

Probably because he's not? Moe is over 18, so.

And as far as I can recall, Akemi was also at least 18 when she got pregnant and they got married.

Also - pushing against Gotou being the root of all of this, in that he didn't force Akemi to have mental breaks burning Ken and then also going around fucking men and constantly getting pregnant.

And Moe ...is the one pursuing her father, he'd clearly rather do anything or anyone else than fall into her clutches.

So I sorta feel like you actually wanted to just push an agenda and feel good about yourself except you forgot to fact-check first.

 

[Alqualonde]

pretty low probability of success plan. how would he know that the detectives would light up a cigarrette before finding the cannister of explosive gas?
even if we suppose he actually hid the propane cannister properly so people wouldn't casually see it, how would he know that those two detecties would be the one to trigger it that evening and not another employee at the same office building?
also,how would he know that both of the detectives would be in the building at the same time and get caught in the explosion?
if just one of htem went to pick something up and triggered the explosion, the other would become far harder to kill.
Since there isn't a huge time pressure to try and kill the detectives ASAP , it seems like it would make more sense to come up with a plan more certain to kill both of them.

thanks for the chapter!

I've never seen a smoker pass up a smoke when given the chance plus anything from lighting the room to wearing wool can light the gas. İt's not just cigarettes, gas leaks are dangerous because we use electricity and fire a lot in our daily life.

 

[BegoneThoth]

Probably because he's not? Moe is over 18, so.

And as far as I can recall, Akemi was also at least 18 when she got pregnant and they got married.

Also - pushing against Gotou being the root of all of this, in that he didn't force Akemi to have mental breaks burning Ken and then also going around fucking men and constantly getting pregnant.

And Moe ...is the one pursuing her father, he'd clearly rather do anything or anyone else than fall into her clutches.

So I sorta feel like you actually wanted to just push an agenda and feel good about yourself except you forgot to fact-check first.

1. "Loli" is one of the tags lol...
2. An adult who knocks up a high-schooler isn't, nor should, be seen positively. Even if one were to give your claim that she was "at least 18" substance.
3. Perhaps being a high-schooler who gets pregnant by an adult would cause some metal health issues.
4. The father has been fantasizing about the daughter since the beginning. It was called out in-universe as being weird the way he interacts with her. A normal person wouldn't be struggling to not "fall into her clutches".
5. The agenda being pushed is what exactly? That I think there are pedophilic tones to the father? Or that pedophilia is bad? Weirdo.

---

I would also like to point out two additional things:

1. That, iirc, the professor that preys upon nubile college students was a friend of the father.
2. As commenters have joked, the wife is raring to go in the bedroom and perfectly willing to have him. But oddly, the father lost interest in his high-school bride once she grew up. I think when you look at instances where the artist made the differences in body very conspicuous you can see the father has a type. And it's not hot curvy nymphomaniacs.

 

[TiJoTo]

So irritated with the brother.
Instead of moving on and potentially being happy with the detective his shallow insistence may have gotten her killed.
Maybe He's right, that family should stay together, he's just as dysfunctional as the rest of them.

 

[UdenEmpati]

1. "Loli" is one of the tags lol...
2. An adult who knocks up a high-schooler isn't, nor should, be seen positively. Even if one were to give your claim that she was "at least 18" substance.
3. Perhaps being a high-schooler who gets pregnant by an adult would cause some metal health issues.
4. The father has been fantasizing about the daughter since the beginning. It was called out in-universe as being weird the way he interacts with her. A normal person wouldn't be struggling to not "fall into her clutches".
5. The agenda being pushed is what exactly? That I think there are pedophilic tones to the father? Or that pedophilia is bad? Weirdo.

---

I would also like to point out two additional things:

1. That, iirc, the professor that preys upon nubile college students was a friend of the father.
2. As commenters have joked, the wife is raring to go in the bedroom and perfectly willing to have him. But oddly, the father lost interest in his high-school bride once she grew up. I think when you look at instances where the artist made the differences in body very conspicuous you can see the father has a type. And it's not hot curvy nymphomaniacs.

Yeah, so - nothing I've said this whole way through is actively defending Gotou. I think every character in this series is insane in some way, but I don't really think Gotou's the genesis point, as the best-case, most generous interpretation still relies on inference as to whether he was directly responsible for Akemi's litany of issues as they presented.

She blames "not getting to live her youth" as part of the reason she went sleeping around and turned to alcohol and self-medicating, but again--it's left up to the reader to decide whether that's her being her, or due to Gotou's presence in her life.

And that still doesn't make Gotou a pedophile. Incestuous? Yes (assuming Moe's his biologicaly daughter, which is still be teased out by the author at this point). Does it make him extensively problematic? Absolutely, you won't hear me saying otherwise.

But the others aren't victims of his, because that denies them their own agency in contributing to this mess.

I simply prefer accuracy if we're gonna go around as readers in judging characters within a story. Like your pointing out the other professor being an associate of Gotou's--association isn't incrimination. You can point to Gotou's obsession with Moe as problematic on its own without saying "he knew a guy who was a serial rapist, therefore he's a pedophile"...like, that doesn't follow.

And, the Loli tag makes sense only so far as Moe's presentation is of a petite woman. I'm not getting into whether that should be applicable, except that as we know the relative age ranges of the characters, I will push back on misusing terminology that's that charged, because it just waters down the term and makes it less useful overall.

Again--plenty of reasons to want Gotou to die before the finale. That, amazingly, isn't one of them.

 

[BegoneThoth]

Yeah, so - nothing I've said this whole way through is actively defending Gotou. I think every character in this series is insane in some way, but I don't really think Gotou's the genesis point, as the best-case, most generous interpretation still relies on inference as to whether he was directly responsible for Akemi's litany of issues as they presented.

She blames "not getting to live her youth" as part of the reason she went sleeping around and turned to alcohol and self-medicating, but again--it's left up to the reader to decide whether that's her being her, or due to Gotou's presence in her life.

And that still doesn't make Gotou a pedophile. Incestuous? Yes (assuming Moe's his biologicaly daughter, which is still be teased out by the author at this point). Does it make him extensively problematic? Absolutely, you won't hear me saying otherwise.

But the others aren't victims of his, because that denies them their own agency in contributing to this mess.

I simply prefer accuracy if we're gonna go around as readers in judging characters within a story. Like your pointing out the other professor being an associate of Gotou's--association isn't incrimination. You can point to Gotou's obsession with Moe as problematic on its own without saying "he knew a guy who was a serial rapist, therefore he's a pedophile"...like, that doesn't follow.

And, the Loli tag makes sense only so far as Moe's presentation is of a petite woman. I'm not getting into whether that should be applicable, except that as we know the relative age ranges of the characters, I will push back on misusing terminology that's that charged, because it just waters down the term and makes it less useful overall.

Again--plenty of reasons to want Gotou to die before the finale. That, amazingly, isn't one of them.

A normal man would have been falling over themselves at that hot detective! You know the curvy nympho wife would be down for some investigations. 😋😋
He literally is the genesis point: His impregnating a high-schooler is the first event in this story. Said high-schooler develops mental health issues. Presumably this happens after the adult man takes advantage of her. Otherwise the adult man slept with a mental unwell high-schooler. Her mental decline must have a reason, and the only thing the author has presented, in numerous ways, is the man's inappropriate relationship with her. The fact that this series has the loli tag seems to indicate you're in the minority. Don't worry guys, she's "at least 18" lol. I'm sure the father's desires for his daughter only began when she reached adulthood. Why yes, even now, she looks like she might not be allowed to watch an R-rated movie, but that's just a coincidence.
Just like there's nothing to the father going to a brothel called "StudentLesson". Nor how the father has been portrayed in intimate scenes as selfish and domineering. Nor how the ML has been shown to have three women he was attracted to: A loli, a high-schooler, and a prostitute selling herself as a "student".
😬

Subtlety? Nah, this author isn't good enough for that. They couldn't possibly be trying to have layers to this story. Or depth for that matter. The whole point I was bringing up is that I think the focus on the incestuous aspect of the story is overlooking the more insidious one. If Moe had a regular childhood, particularly a normal father, would she still have turned into a incest-yandere? What was the genesis of her mental health decline? I wasn't interested in debating things like whether it only counts as incest if she's his biological daughter, as you seem to believe. I don't really care about your complex over society's view about pedophilia and the Lolita archetype.

 

[Alqualonde]

A normal man would have been falling over themselves at that hot detective! You know the curvy nympho wife would be down for some investigations. 😋😋
He literally is the genesis point: His impregnating a high-schooler is the first event in this story. Said high-schooler develops mental health issues. Presumably this happens after the adult man takes advantage of her. Otherwise the adult man slept with a mental unwell high-schooler. Her mental decline must have a reason, and the only thing the author has presented, in numerous ways, is the man's inappropriate relationship with her. The fact that this series has the loli tag seems to indicate you're in the minority. Don't worry guys, she's "at least 18" lol. I'm sure the father's desires for his daughter only began when she reached adulthood. Why yes, even now, she looks like she might not be allowed to watch an R-rated movie, but that's just a coincidence.
Just like there's nothing to the father going to a brothel called "StudentLesson". Nor how the father has been portrayed in intimate scenes as selfish and domineering. Nor how the ML has been shown to have three women he was attracted to: A loli, a high-schooler, and a prostitute selling herself as a "student".
😬

Subtlety? Nah, this author isn't good enough for that. They couldn't possibly be trying to have layers to this story. Or depth for that matter. The whole point I was bringing up is that I think the focus on the incestuous aspect of the story is overlooking the more insidious one. If Moe had a regular childhood, particularly a normal father, would she still have turned into a incest-yandere? What was the genesis of her mental health decline? I wasn't interested in debating things like whether it only counts as incest if she's his biological daughter, as you seem to believe. I don't really care about your complex over society's view about pedophilia and the Lolita archetype.

So i went back and checked because i did not remember dad being older than akemi . Akemi and the dad are similar in age if not the same age. Akemi marries dad when she was about to graduate hs which would make her 17-18. this is confirmed in chapter 14 in the hospital scene. in chapter 5 dad says he was already married by moe's age which is 18, she just graduated from hs. Unless its a mistranslation, dad was just a reckless teen dating another reckless teen and they married super early in their lives.

where is it mentioned dad is older than akemi ? i couldnt find it.

 

[Alqualonde]

1. "Loli" is one of the tags lol...
2. An adult who knocks up a high-schooler isn't, nor should, be seen positively. Even if one were to give your claim that she was "at least 18" substance.
3. Perhaps being a high-schooler who gets pregnant by an adult would cause some metal health issues.
4. The father has been fantasizing about the daughter since the beginning. It was called out in-universe as being weird the way he interacts with her. A normal person wouldn't be struggling to not "fall into her clutches".
5. The agenda being pushed is what exactly? That I think there are pedophilic tones to the father? Or that pedophilia is bad? Weirdo.

---

I would also like to point out two additional things:

1. That, iirc, the professor that preys upon nubile college students was a friend of the father.
2. As commenters have joked, the wife is raring to go in the bedroom and perfectly willing to have him. But oddly, the father lost interest in his high-school bride once she grew up. I think when you look at instances where the artist made the differences in body very conspicuous you can see the father has a type. And it's not hot curvy nymphomaniacs.

1. loli tag is used if any character that have the body of a minor is depicted in a sexual manner. Rarely, like this work, the work is not about loli but uses some panels that qualifies as loli. Fathers dream in the first chapter is especially suspicious.

2. unless its stated otherwise in later chapters dad is similar if not the same age as the mother.

3. same point as 2

4. Thats the focal point of the story. We only know he had "a dream" about moe after he has been stressed about his wifes potential infidelty. Moes been increasingly agressive in her actions after his fathers dream which makes me think something more than a dream happened when dad was drunk that encouraged her massively. Her later actions during her friends rape suggest it was not intercourse tho.

5. This is a psyhological thriller. Those rarely have strong agendas. Maybe "some people are inherently evil while some become evil ?" . There are strong incestous tones with a tint of pedophilia to father. But focus is on moe and akemi while father and brother mostly react. Moe is knowingly trying to break her father so he would rationalize incest. Its not about him escaping her advances, she planned a whole cheating+child abuse fabrication so her father would be stressed and alone. She pressed him further at every turn and even used a fake boyfriend and sex life to get a strong reactionfrom him. She is replicating akemi in every form to see what works while also kidnapping people, throwing them from apartmens and blowing them up. This is not a daughter trying to seduce her dad. it would be calling what v does to evie a hazing ritual.

6. they are friends from work, not friends. they worked together

7. Father never really lost interest in akemi tho ? in fact he was onboard with reconciliaton despite everyting he percieved as truth until the video incident. Mother was thick af as a hs student, let alone the 2 decades they kepth having sex after moe is born. They are both in their 40s.